A thought on the Shikoku's decline in Japan...
Just thinking about the Shikoku and it's shrinking registration numbers in Japan. I wonder, would it be in the same shape as it's in now if there had been a separate preservation society created for the breed (like many of the others have)?
Thoughts?
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Thoughts?
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Comments
1.) The breed name is so foreign that they'd have trouble remembering, let alone spelling the name.
2.) The availability of the dog is so scarce and rare that it's enough of a detractor for many to pursue (which can be a good thing).
3.) Her inquisitive or intense stares at humans/dogs can be misunderstood by others.
The tough question here is: what allowances would you have to give for the breed to survive/thrive? Would the Shikoku's tenacious drive have to be curbed to fare better acceptance in American homes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't people mentioned on the forum that Kishu and Kai fare better as cooperative pack hunters than Shikoku in packs? Doesn't that also pose a bit of an obstacle into preserving the breed? Also, their looks are so primitive that it hides just how biddable they are (many people stop at a safe distance and comment to me just how wolf/husky/fox-like my dogs are).
Interesting question posed though. I'd be intrigued to hear other people's opinions to the question, AND to add one of my own, "would the breed fare better if their temperment was softened from their original hunting purpose (high prey drive, energetic, mouthy, without boundaries, etc.)?"
Jesse
Possibly having a separate preservation society could have helped maintain the breed and it's not too late to encourage one to be made. If there is increasing interest in the breed worldwide, this may help encourage the Japanese breeders to produce more litters.
Just to be clear, I was speaking specifically about the breed in Japan and not so much the rest of the world. If anything, I think the breed expanding outside of Japan.
Honestly, I think that's what makes the Shikoku situation so interesting, the breed is expanding outside of Japan, but shrinking inside Japan. So, following this path, eventually the outside world will run out of out-crosses.
Anyway, what I was originally posting about was how I noticed that the Kai Ken, for example, has grown in numbers within Japan and I wonder how much of that is due to them having their own preservation society and not relying only on NIPPO?
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But, to answer Brad's question. Yes, I think a separate Shikoku preservation society would've greatly benefitted the breed because it would've allowed for isolation and focus on the breed.
@brad1878: Is the number of Shikoku breeders small enough that it's feasible for our NA society to get a representative puppy from each line within say...5 years on an average of 4 imports a year (~20 breeders)?
Jesse
An interesting fact I learned at the NIPPO Chiba branch end of year event was that NIPPO used to be primarily based on the popularity of the medium sized breeds, and they were in the majority, but now the Shiba registrations vastly outnumber the other breeds.
I'll also add my opinion that any effort to 'change' the Shikoku temperament to a softer more pet oriented one will almost assuredly be met with at best an unenthusiastic response from NIPPO and the majority of its members, at worst, disdain.
I think this discussion (above) highlights the dilemma that Shikoku breeders in North America may face in terms of Shikoku "temperament". I suspect that the serious Shiba breeders in the US may have already had to deal with it-- to wit, how does one maintain a breed with a little "edge" from the hunting background while trying to integrate it into the expectations of the US dog-loving public?
Just my observation/"two bits worth".
Another problem with softening the temperament, is it really preservation if you have to change the breed? What makes a breed is more than just the looks but also the personality, both aspects are equally important to preserving a breed.
I wonder if another big issue with the shikoku is "advertisement". How well is the breed being advertised in Japan? How many people in Japan actually know about the breed?
And how is it that the JA, being a non-hunting breed, has kept their popularity? And being a large breed, is still more popular than the smaller medium-sized breed? Do the more affluent people with more space flock to the JA?
Jesse
There is pretty much no breed promotion for the Shikoku going on in Japan at the moment, which is something I'm actually working on.
I'm going to be very honest. I think Jesse hit it on the head @Crimson02. Even my friends who I have shown Shikoku pictures to fall in awe with how beautiful they are. When they ask about temperment, then they don't like what they hear even if I put a real fun positive spin on typical Shikoku behavior like staring at you. I just don't think their temperment is as sellable. Maybe that's why they have been bred down a bit.
For anyone running a kennel with 20 dogs, which would be easier Kai or Shikoku?......Kai.
If their temperaments have waned to where people don't use them for hunting much, then there really is no need for them anymore in Japan. There are so many other dog breeds to choose from as pets/companions.
Sad to hear about JAs
@TheWalrus - Are there dog sports in Japan similar to what you see in other countries such as agility, obedience, schutzhund, etc.?
There are many dogs that are popular these days, even though their personalities aren't really suitable as pets, because they excel at such dog sports. If such sports do exist in Japan, figuring out and participating in ones that a shikoku would excel at, may help encourage dog enthusiasts to want one and give the breed a "job". Right now it seems like the breed doesn't have a job, they are just a pretty face in the dog show in need of a job/purpose.
I wonder how NK would do in lure coursing, or some other hunting simulator test. I find it funny that (in the US at least) people find it cruel to hunt test dogs on big game even when there's a protective barrier such as a cage, but it's alright to have small terriers scare the crap out of caged rodents (Earthdog Trials).
Dogs are not wild animals. They are bred and kept with human for either functional reasons such as hunting, getting rid of rodents and/or as companion (pet). Genetics and temperament can be selected before breeding to get more closely to what you want in a dog depending on the function you have in mind, but for a dog to do its job (whatever that may be), it needs to be trained. And most dogs today are kept first and foremost as a companion pet. Basic manners need to be taught, so humans can enjoy the companionship of their dog without the dog causing havoc in the house or when out and about with their people. A breed that no longer has a function needed by human will have very little chance of proliferation.
So what do people with Shikoku or other NK do with their dogs? Do they hunt? If they don't hunt, does the dog have a job? Being a good pet is a job. If a breed acts like a wild animal and can not serve its function (hunting, companion or whatever it is), then it probably will never gain popularity to thrive in a world controlled by human.
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from http://yokohamaatsumi.the-ninja.jp/page006.html :
"KAN- I" means strength of character and dignity. Dogs may be lively and
bold without being excessively aggressive to the point of noble excellence.
"RYOSEI" means faithful and obedient. Dogs should have total trust and
attachment to the owners expressing full bond and partnership.
"SOBOKU" means natural beauty from seasoned maturity and modest
appearance. Its expression is feeling of refined simplicity and sober
elegance.
@calia and sandrat I'd better clarify, saying 'wild animals' was probably pushing it. They're kept as close to their natural 'semi-wild state', to be preserved in conformation and temperament as they were when classified/discovered/have always been. That's the goal anyway.
Of course they have changed somewhat over the years, and then there is the fact that interpretations of the standard vary person to person.
@sandrat while I understand what your saying about dogs, that's probably not where the majority of NIPPO members are coming from. Of course they love dogs, especially the Japanese breeds, but they're mostly owning them from a breed preservation and cultural standpoint. The vast majority of NK do not have any functional use other than as show dogs, and are definitely not kept as 'pets' in the traditional sense of the word. The dilemma is pretty much the point I believe you were trying to make. These breeds are being preserved 'as they were', which is as hunting dogs, watch dogs, but the majority are no longer being used for that purpose. The vast majority are not kept indoors as house pets, but are kenneled. Most have minimal training other than what is necessary to be shown in a NIPPO ring, and live in a kennel.
I'm not trying to pass judgement on anything or anyone, just trying to let everyone overseas know what the NK culture is over here.
@ayk the kanji for 'ryosei' is 'ryo' (good) and 'sei' (character). In this case it would probably be best translated as 'having good/sound temperament'. It is interpreted as faithful (loyal) and obedient. You can definitely make the case that training in obedience could show a dog's 'ryosei'.
Also in regard to 'ryosei', it was pointed out to me that the temperament clause in the standard calls for NK to be full of 'kan-i', with 'ryosei' and an air/feeling of 'soboku'. 'Kan-i' does come first, but is balanced with 'ryosei', thus in the NIPPO ring the vigor, strength of character and dignity cannot be lacking, and does end up being prioritized. A dog showing 'ryosei' without 'kan-i' (and vice versa for that matter) will not show well, and the 'kan-i' definitely carries a lot of weight. It was also mentioned (and I have experienced this myself) that putting a dog through a lot of obedience type training often does turn them into more of an obedience machine, which can translate into a lack of 'kan-i' in the ring, the loss of that natural, strong, aware look.
We did discuss training, and agreed that some forms of it are good and useful, and it could be useful to train NK a bit more. Right now it's usually limited to teaching them to stand properly in the ring, and usually (lol) to show their teeth. Other things that might be taught are 'mate' (wait), and 'dame' (no), but I can't think of too many others.
From my perspective, even though it seems (per Shigeru's description) that NIPPO and the JPN breeders wanted to keep the shikoku in more of a "wild state", that they can make good pets for the right person here in North America, specifically a person who is an active individual who understands working with dogs with a unique nature (especially the combination of soft temperament to humans and hard temperament to other dogs/drive towards game). However, in Japan it seems that they are definitely not bred to be pets per se. It is interesting that Shigeru comments that his obedience training/tricks are thought of as a "novelty" in Japan. I just find that amazing that these dogs were not selected for their biddable nature (at least that is what it seems by @TheWalrus' comments) and yet (in my house) I find them extremely willing and easy to train (much better than most spitz by far).
So, kind of off the path, but if in JPN they are selected for their "wild" nature, is there any selection of trainability? Because they seem highly trainable and very good at obedience (as in competitive obedience). I wonder if changing Japanese breeders opinions of obedience training being a novelty vs otherwise could help them minimize the lowered registrations? Because if they could show that the dogs are highly trainable (while still maintaining the character; kan-i), maybe that would open up more homes which would have them as "pets" vs "kennel dogs" in JPN.
And in regard to maintaining the kan-i, I think that you could possibly work around that with training. Now I have never been to a Japanese NIPPO show, but I can tell you my own experience with my male. When I put on his choke collar, that cues him that it is "obedience time". I never need to use the choker (he is very good and doesn't need correction) but it is there for a marker to him that now is time to focus on me and obedience and precision. In that case, he ignores the other dogs while on his choker collar. When I move to the flat collar, he immediately switches his personality. If he comes up a dog once "released" by moving to the flat collar, he is much more aware, on his toes, ears pricked, just full of himself knowing that now he doesn't have to focus just on me. I am often explaining that it is like Terrier Sparring in that his temperament is that of being aware and self confident (http://www.uskbtc.com/article.php/17). I hope this makes sense? I do not use his choker collar for anything else, only the obedience ring. They do this kind of training with stallions that are riding horses, using specific equipment for specific activities so that in one case the stallion knows it is "riding time and must focus on rider" vs say, "breeding time". This is accomplished by different halters (say with bells or fuzzies on them), different directions leaving the barn, etc. That is what I am trying to say and I see it with my dog all the time (at leas the male, the female it isn't as obvious).
And @tjbart17 - I am going to have to disagree with you to some extent. I am not sure why you think it is hard to "sell their personalities". I have lived with 2 shikoku over 6 years (combined) and I do not see anything that would be a "hard sell". By far, 99% of the people who meet my dogs first comment on their looks and then comment on how extremely well behaved they are. This is from random lay people and strong obedience competitors. Yes, they can have an argumentative nature with some other dogs at times, but because of the trainability that I was speaking to above, you can teach them to control that urge very easily. I have never had any issues with mine. And I have talked with other shikoku owners too, and most do not find their temperaments an issue. And really -- how many of us have 20 dogs in a kennel (per your analogy), not too many. Sorry, but it seems that you often put out comments on this temperament issue (vs Kai) and I just do not think that it is justified. Just because you might not like the breed for yourself (or your personality) doesn't mean that others will have an issue with the breed.
@CrimsonO2 - I like your idea of making a video and I would be willing to help edit/put together a video. I am more than happy to supply video of my dogs. I think that it would be great to put on the NASC website.
Which is a problem when these breeders retire and there is NO ONE to continue their lines. What happens to these dogs and these lines? They die out. =/