A piece of sturdy but not heavy rope will work, something from 50-100 feet. I do have a training lead but it's only 30 feet long and cost about $15. The rope was less than $10 at a hardware store. I bought a metal clasp and tied it on... Bingo, nice long-line for recall training.
I used a light clothes line with a leash clasp knotted sturdily on when Juno was really young. As she got bigger and began going in the actual woods, I like my permatack check cord to drag- it's bright orange, and doesnt catch on stuff or absorb water. www.permatack.com
Juno's line was about 15 feet? 20? I am bad at measurements. May be obvious, but: long line attaches to a harness so nobody gets strangled.
@WrylyBrindle - Definitely got a harness. I don't want Ciqala's break-neck speed to become literal. Though I am finding that the "step in" ones absolutely suck.
I have built a number of them over the years. My current favorite is a very thin (1/8") blaze orange cord I got from REI tied to simple clasp I got at a hardware store. It's so light, most of the time the dogs don't even realize it's on them (which is exactly the point).
I also use rope for long lines. I usually use poly, because it doesn't mould. I also make sure to get a kind that floats, and one that won't give me too bad rope burn if I grab it while the dog is trying to run away.
Hunting stores like Wholesale Sports have lots of long lines in case you don't want to make one.
Chrys - I love the idea of the perma tack... I might have to get one of those!
I have been using a 30 ft lunge line from a tack store, but I really like the idea of not having to coil up a muddy, soaked line at the end of the day.
Kel- re: harnesses- ruffwear webmaster harness is the way to go. They can be found on sale right now because RuffWear is coming out with a new webmaster on the 30th.
@WrylyBrindle - and this is a harness, not a car, right? :P That thing is pretty intense though. Maybe something once she's done growing (if she ever starts lol)
It does look intense, but its secure and comfy. I call it her Spy Harness...originally bought one for Sage because he panicks and bucks his way out of all other manner of harnesses, and stuck with it for Juno... a regular harness will do if Ciqala isnt too slippery
Juno is a small girl too, so dont worry if Ciqala seems to be growing slowly. I didnt have a good grasp of how big/small a female kai really is, so Juno's brothers were all 27 lbs while she was still in the 'teens of weight. She has made it to 27.2 lbs as of her vet visit last week, at 13 months old or so. I dont think shes getting any bigger at this point. If she bulks up this year and makes it to 30 lbs I will be surprised, but I think shes got good mass for her frame.
Hope things work out with your off leash training Yandharr.
Saya I kept her on leash as a puppy let her have freedom with a light 100 foot leash while I did chores. I would walk close to her at various times call her to come I made sure she wasn't distracted by a butterfly or animal in the woods and when she came she got her favorite treat, either dehydrated liver, cooked meat, string cheese, or cooked egg.
I rotated so it was always different cooked meat and cooked egg was coarse messy, but it was her favorite treat.
I've found some toys that Saya loves to chase so I play flirt pole as reward for coming when called too.
Out of all the Nihon ken which do you think does best off leash able to check in and do good off the leash. can list multiple if you want.
I know of coarse it depends on the dog not every dog is good at it even if it is a breed that tends to be good off leash I was just curious.
Well, I'd have to say Shiba, because that's the only other one I have. He's reliable and if I set a boundary, he sticks to it. Oddly enough, inside, its completely different. The Kai almost always comes when called. If the Shiba could yell, "screw you, I'm staying here!" from the other room, I'm sure he would every time.
I love the ruffwear harness, which I sold a few months ago. I added extra clips so I can add a pack, 1lb weights, or a bladder on hikes. It also helped when I had to carry Sasuke over small streams when he didn't want to get his feet wet.
I dont have any other NK, but I think it depends on the individual dog's basic personality, the training the owner puts in, the regularity with which the opportunity to explore together off leash occurs, and the relationship between the owner and dog.
I have two highly prey-driven dogs, a 9 year old lurcher (greyhound mix- greyhounds are also a "dont ever let them off leash" breed) and a 1 year old kai ken- both have hiked with me for their "whole lives" (sic) and its not a 'forbidden fruit' thing they can only get in defiance of me, which makes a difference in terms of bolting off, I think. We are all relaxed and enjoying it, and I am lucky to have a huge safe place (from cars, other dogs- though it is full of wildlife) to run with them- The National Forest.
Juno begins her off leash hiking training at 3 months old
Exploring the forest is a thing we do together several days each week all year- 3 or 4 mornings a week before work for an hour each time, and a long one of multi hours on the better day of the weekend. We are all attentive to each other, I hardly speak out to them, and I reward the HELL out of check-ins initiated by the dogs themselves. After some basic commands and trust were in play, I began Juno (the Kai) with a harness and alternately holding and letting go of her check cord till I saw she knew the gig. I think Juno is helped by her natural temperament and breeding (her mother is also a sticky dog, who has logged a lot of time off leash in the woods with her owners), as well as absorbing the established 'culture' she gets from Reilly every day ("we walk on THIS side of the river, if you suddenly think of it, run to mom- it pays off! we wait at trail junctions and see which way mom wants to go") and finally, she is very bonded to me and follows me everywhere anyway. I do not know if Juno would be quite as good if I didnt have Reilly already carrying the culture (she might, but I dont know), so I thank my lucky stars I have Rei... frequently! She followed Reilly primarily at times as a few-months-old pup in the woods, and since Rei knows what we do and dont do, she set the example for puppy Juno. After some time, and lots of good reps, I graduated Juno to her blaze collar and bell.
I refrain from calling them away from such things as hunting in the meadow, instead I go see what they are finding, "lemme see...cool! go dig!" wait a bit and let them get their digging out, then say "This Way, girls!" when they come up for air. I dont panic and shout when they take off after a hare, the Hike is a hunt to them, not a parade. They come back. We are all hunters, we ALL stop and check what each other finds. One of my favorite things to do with them is say "LOOK!" and point, and it might be deer poop, or a track, or a hole or a place I *just* saw a mouse run- it's always something Interesting To Dogs, and over time the LOOK! prompt has become the most powerful recaller I have for Reilly. I have hauled it out in emergencies when COME failed, and it works. (She will also come my way and seek direction at the command BUNNIES! but I reserve that one, because while I DO get her full attention, she is watching for my point and takes off, whereas LOOK is something AT my location.)
Because I have walked with Reilly so long, in so many places, I am comfortable with her hunt patterns and distance. I trust her, and I trust Juno, too, even though she is very young still, because she has proven over and over again that she will seek me out, that she will come when called and even that she has a strong pack-bond with Reilly. (We crossed a fast stream one day and Reilly wouldnt cross with us, but paced the far shore and barked to us. No amount of cheering could get her across, but Juno swam and crossed on logs back and forth between Rei and I, going to Rei and looking back at me as much as to say "Mom, she cant cross here!"- so we all walked upstream to a place with slower water and some islands, which Rei could wade and jump to. Reunion time is jubilant!) Not everyone is comfortable with the dog out of sight (mine wear bells- I just need to hear them if I cant see them, and spotting brindle dogs in the woods can be hard.) and that's okay too, you just need to find an overlapping comfort/enjoyment zone in your relationship with your own dog- how far, how often, what places.
For the record, and so you know its not about ME, Sage is NOT a good hiking dog. He is reactive and balky, and kindof kills the groove the girls and I are in. I can't make him a good hiking dog, there is nothing magic about training methods, equipment, experience or relationship that can make him completely comfortable as the girls are. Once in a while, if he seems right and conditions are optimal, I will take all three together out, and once in a while he enjoys this, BUT I cannot rely on him to not get spooked and just head home on his own, and I cannot rely on him to greet any dog we may meet in the woods fairly. I cannot rely on him to come to me every time, even in apparently ordinary situations- he has demons I cant perceive. I often wonder if the wildlife scents are taken too seriously by him (Sage: "Mom, the coyotes say STAY OUT! and they MEAN it! What are you DOing?" vs Rei & Juno: "Hmm, the coyotes have been eating apples, prey must be scarce." "That's what I think too.") but he may just feel exposed or vulnerable.
The "magic" thing about our relationship IS that I allow him be the homebody he is and quit placing him in situations he feels too much pressure in. In fact I have begun to see that Sage is really torn when I am obviously getting ready to hike the girls- he will act like he wants to go, and line up with them for collars and pace (what I thought was excitedly) and pant -and I used to fall for this and bring him only for him to begin showing extra stress and sometimes stalling, but I now believe what I am seeing is separation anxiety: that he wants to be with me and the girls so badly that he will consent to the forest walk to a point, only to then feel afraid and not be able to do it. Its kindof sad, actually. So I will set him up in my studio with a kong or something to enjoy before I get the girls ready, and on returning we all go play with Sage in the yard.
I have gradually made a fantastic dog yard, and he can play with the girls and be safe and comfy there, and play with toys with me. The dog is who he is. Everybody's dog is. Some are good off leash dogs, some are out of control off leash dogs and are better hiking with a leash and some dont even want to go. The trick is finding out and believing what youve got, and not being upset that a rock song isn't a cantata, but loving singing it anyway.
Thanks for the nice post on your experiences I agree not every dog is good off leash and I'm fine with it.
In past I've owned two dogs that were reactive to strange dogs they never met another dog which I was fine with they were stressed to be around dogs due to their past getting attacked by an off leash dog in city.
our three dogs before Bella and Saya were great off leash they'd stick close wander some, but never ran off to who knows where and if they saw a deer they'd give chase, but come back when we told them to.
Bella might not be a good off leash dog due to her bolting stuff part I think it's because she has hypothyroidism she seems to be more jumpy other part could be from being yelled at by my dad as young dog. So she lost some of her trust or her flight instinct increased with it. Ah well she enjoys her freedom with long leash and that's fine.
Bella is doing better with listening and coming when called, but I don't want take chances with her with way she is she gets spooked she runs sometimes when she isn't spooked..
Saya does good off leash which is surprising due to her breed I only do off leash in my backyard and trails because only place that seem allow it if the dog park most forest areas dogs must be leashed which is fine Saya likes walking on leash too.
She's caught a young rabbit and vole, but each time she dropped it and allowed me to inspect it and stuff.
Saya has ran off after a squirrel I calmly walked in direction she went and calling her name every so often so she'd hear me and know I was moving to where she was and she came right to me she got jack pot of treats of coarse. Luckily she had her bells on so I could hear where she was around she's a quick little shiba.. I even gotten her bright colored bandana so along with the bells the bandana will help me see her in the brush..
I only walk in the woods in winter and early spring ticks are too much in the spring summer and fall..
I use tick stuff, but still I worry if ticks get immune to the stuff and walking on the field trails we still get ticks, but not as much.. Maybe I'll try essential oils on her bandana to help repel them.
That was a great post, Chrystal. Really beautiful to read about your relationship with your dogs, and also how you respect what they want and need to, as with Sage. I've really come around to thinking we can enrich our relationships with our dogs if accept who they are--as they always accept us for who we are. Thank you.
So, i ended up getting a 100ft poly. line. Went out to the woods (really a huge enclosed park) and let Ciqala loose. And of course, she stuck right by me the ENTIRE time so the line just ended up wrapping around my legs a million times. Not too much running off, her comfort range is about 120ft, mostly to go get Saru when she thought he was straying off too far, which I found hilarious because it was her that was supposed to be in training. She even hunted some squirrels, no luck with that though. I took some vids but they're pretty boring, I'll post them later. Thanks all for the advice!
Hey guys, this might be resurrecting an old'ish thread, but I just found out Ruffwear is on Zappos.com. Which means you can order harnesses etc and be covered by their guaranteed return policy. Next day or 2-day shipping on anything and everything, then returns are usually free and they'll send you exchange items super fast too. I'm looking into a few different harnesses for hiking and this is going to be huge if things don't fit right.
Comments
Juno's line was about 15 feet? 20? I am bad at measurements. May be obvious, but: long line attaches to a harness so nobody gets strangled.
Hunting stores like Wholesale Sports have lots of long lines in case you don't want to make one.
I have been using a 30 ft lunge line from a tack store, but I really like the idea of not having to coil up a muddy, soaked line at the end of the day.
Juno is a small girl too, so dont worry if Ciqala seems to be growing slowly. I didnt have a good grasp of how big/small a female kai really is, so Juno's brothers were all 27 lbs while she was still in the 'teens of weight. She has made it to 27.2 lbs as of her vet visit last week, at 13 months old or so. I dont think shes getting any bigger at this point. If she bulks up this year and makes it to 30 lbs I will be surprised, but I think shes got good mass for her frame.
Saya I kept her on leash as a puppy let her have freedom with a light 100 foot leash while I did chores. I would walk close to her at various times call her to come I made sure she wasn't distracted by a butterfly or animal in the woods and when she came she got her favorite treat, either dehydrated liver, cooked meat, string cheese, or cooked egg.
I rotated so it was always different cooked meat and cooked egg was coarse messy, but it was her favorite treat.
I've found some toys that Saya loves to chase so I play flirt pole as reward for coming when called too.
Out of all the Nihon ken which do you think does best off leash able to check in and do good off the leash. can list multiple if you want.
I know of coarse it depends on the dog not every dog is good at it even if it is a breed that tends to be good off leash I was just curious.
I have two highly prey-driven dogs, a 9 year old lurcher (greyhound mix- greyhounds are also a "dont ever let them off leash" breed) and a 1 year old kai ken- both have hiked with me for their "whole lives" (sic) and its not a 'forbidden fruit' thing they can only get in defiance of me, which makes a difference in terms of bolting off, I think. We are all relaxed and enjoying it, and I am lucky to have a huge safe place (from cars, other dogs- though it is full of wildlife) to run with them- The National Forest.
Juno begins her off leash hiking training at 3 months old
Exploring the forest is a thing we do together several days each week all year- 3 or 4 mornings a week before work for an hour each time, and a long one of multi hours on the better day of the weekend. We are all attentive to each other, I hardly speak out to them, and I reward the HELL out of check-ins initiated by the dogs themselves. After some basic commands and trust were in play, I began Juno (the Kai) with a harness and alternately holding and letting go of her check cord till I saw she knew the gig. I think Juno is helped by her natural temperament and breeding (her mother is also a sticky dog, who has logged a lot of time off leash in the woods with her owners), as well as absorbing the established 'culture' she gets from Reilly every day ("we walk on THIS side of the river, if you suddenly think of it, run to mom- it pays off! we wait at trail junctions and see which way mom wants to go") and finally, she is very bonded to me and follows me everywhere anyway. I do not know if Juno would be quite as good if I didnt have Reilly already carrying the culture (she might, but I dont know), so I thank my lucky stars I have Rei... frequently! She followed Reilly primarily at times as a few-months-old pup in the woods, and since Rei knows what we do and dont do, she set the example for puppy Juno. After some time, and lots of good reps, I graduated Juno to her blaze collar and bell.
I refrain from calling them away from such things as hunting in the meadow, instead I go see what they are finding, "lemme see...cool! go dig!" wait a bit and let them get their digging out, then say "This Way, girls!" when they come up for air. I dont panic and shout when they take off after a hare, the Hike is a hunt to them, not a parade. They come back. We are all hunters, we ALL stop and check what each other finds. One of my favorite things to do with them is say "LOOK!" and point, and it might be deer poop, or a track, or a hole or a place I *just* saw a mouse run- it's always something Interesting To Dogs, and over time the LOOK! prompt has become the most powerful recaller I have for Reilly. I have hauled it out in emergencies when COME failed, and it works. (She will also come my way and seek direction at the command BUNNIES! but I reserve that one, because while I DO get her full attention, she is watching for my point and takes off, whereas LOOK is something AT my location.)
Because I have walked with Reilly so long, in so many places, I am comfortable with her hunt patterns and distance. I trust her, and I trust Juno, too, even though she is very young still, because she has proven over and over again that she will seek me out, that she will come when called and even that she has a strong pack-bond with Reilly. (We crossed a fast stream one day and Reilly wouldnt cross with us, but paced the far shore and barked to us. No amount of cheering could get her across, but Juno swam and crossed on logs back and forth between Rei and I, going to Rei and looking back at me as much as to say "Mom, she cant cross here!"- so we all walked upstream to a place with slower water and some islands, which Rei could wade and jump to. Reunion time is jubilant!) Not everyone is comfortable with the dog out of sight (mine wear bells- I just need to hear them if I cant see them, and spotting brindle dogs in the woods can be hard.) and that's okay too, you just need to find an overlapping comfort/enjoyment zone in your relationship with your own dog- how far, how often, what places.
For the record, and so you know its not about ME, Sage is NOT a good hiking dog. He is reactive and balky, and kindof kills the groove the girls and I are in. I can't make him a good hiking dog, there is nothing magic about training methods, equipment, experience or relationship that can make him completely comfortable as the girls are. Once in a while, if he seems right and conditions are optimal, I will take all three together out, and once in a while he enjoys this, BUT I cannot rely on him to not get spooked and just head home on his own, and I cannot rely on him to greet any dog we may meet in the woods fairly. I cannot rely on him to come to me every time, even in apparently ordinary situations- he has demons I cant perceive. I often wonder if the wildlife scents are taken too seriously by him (Sage: "Mom, the coyotes say STAY OUT! and they MEAN it! What are you DOing?" vs Rei & Juno: "Hmm, the coyotes have been eating apples, prey must be scarce." "That's what I think too.") but he may just feel exposed or vulnerable.
The "magic" thing about our relationship IS that I allow him be the homebody he is and quit placing him in situations he feels too much pressure in. In fact I have begun to see that Sage is really torn when I am obviously getting ready to hike the girls- he will act like he wants to go, and line up with them for collars and pace (what I thought was excitedly) and pant -and I used to fall for this and bring him only for him to begin showing extra stress and sometimes stalling, but I now believe what I am seeing is separation anxiety: that he wants to be with me and the girls so badly that he will consent to the forest walk to a point, only to then feel afraid and not be able to do it. Its kindof sad, actually. So I will set him up in my studio with a kong or something to enjoy before I get the girls ready, and on returning we all go play with Sage in the yard.
I have gradually made a fantastic dog yard, and he can play with the girls and be safe and comfy there, and play with toys with me. The dog is who he is. Everybody's dog is. Some are good off leash dogs, some are out of control off leash dogs and are better hiking with a leash and some dont even want to go. The trick is finding out and believing what youve got, and not being upset that a rock song isn't a cantata, but loving singing it anyway.
In past I've owned two dogs that were reactive to strange dogs they never met another dog which I was fine with they were stressed to be around dogs due to their past getting attacked by an off leash dog in city.
our three dogs before Bella and Saya were great off leash they'd stick close wander some, but never ran off to who knows where and if they saw a deer they'd give chase, but come back when we told them to.
Bella might not be a good off leash dog due to her bolting stuff part I think it's because she has hypothyroidism she seems to be more jumpy other part could be from being yelled at by my dad as young dog. So she lost some of her trust or her flight instinct increased with it. Ah well she enjoys her freedom with long leash and that's fine.
Bella is doing better with listening and coming when called, but I don't want take chances with her with way she is she gets spooked she runs sometimes when she isn't spooked..
Saya does good off leash which is surprising due to her breed I only do off leash in my backyard and trails because only place that seem allow it if the dog park most forest areas dogs must be leashed which is fine Saya likes walking on leash too.
She's caught a young rabbit and vole, but each time she dropped it and allowed me to inspect it and stuff.
Saya has ran off after a squirrel I calmly walked in direction she went and calling her name every so often so she'd hear me and know I was moving to where she was and she came right to me she got jack pot of treats of coarse. Luckily she had her bells on so I could hear where she was around she's a quick little shiba.. I even gotten her bright colored bandana so along with the bells the bandana will help me see her in the brush..
I only walk in the woods in winter and early spring ticks are too much in the spring summer and fall..
I use tick stuff, but still I worry if ticks get immune to the stuff and walking on the field trails we still get ticks, but not as much.. Maybe I'll try essential oils on her bandana to help repel them.