Poor Kilbe!
So Kilbe has had it really rough lately. After giving birth, I fed her Merricks, and I am pretty sure she was allergic to it because she lost a ton of inner coat hair. However, I didn't notice because I thought she was shedding because it has been so hot (110F) and she just gave birth, etc . But, when the outer hair went coarse on her hindquarters, I realized it was allergies (I had the same thing happen to Bea everytime she ate something that she was allergic to). Anyhow, I quit the Merricks and she only on Earthborn, but poor girl, you can see her skin through her fur at some parts of her body.
Things were not too bad with Bea and Kilbe after she gave birth. For some reason, I don't know why, but Bea just left her alone and Kilbe did not get into Bea's face. However, for the past week, they have been at one other again. It sucks.
After giving birth, Kilbe stopped acting hyper but now, she is. She wanted to go hang out with the neighbor's dog so she decided to dig a giant hole and tunnel her way to the neighbor's house--multiple times. However, because of the chain link and how we covered the hole, she got a bunch of scratches on her feet (from the blocks of cement, wood and other stuff we used to try to block that area). Also, because she does not have that much fur, her skin gets scratched pretty easily.
The worse thing happened today. Really early this morning, I let Kilbe out to go pee. There were rabbits on the other side of the fence (I didnt see) so she went beserk. Bea heard her, busted through the screen door and went down. Kilbe in her hunt mode, literally runs over Bea and this sets Bea off. Bea starts going after Kilbe and catches her feet (scratched her). When I saw that Bea busted the screen door, I ran inside and got my tennis shoes so that i can get down my hill ( i was wearing flip flops). I pick up Bea, ran back inside the house. Then I come back to get Kilbe and I guess the rabbits were running around because she kept trying to get under, squeeze through the fence while avoid being caught by me. Finally, I caught her and stuck her in the crate. She started whining and whimpering but I ignored her and went back to sleep because it was so cold and I was so annoyed. When I woke up later and let her out, after she did her Laika 500s I noticed a 2 inch C cut on her side, but it was so deep that the skin was hanging off and I could see the meat underneath. Blood was not gushing out. Anyhow, took her to the vet, she had to be sedated, get stitches. Oddly, the cut was a C, but the line of stitches ended up being a vertical 4 inch line. The vet said he cut the dead skin off and the way it was ripped, it was better for healing to push the ends together in a vertical line than a C. Anyhow, I am a little skeptical because it looks really gross and he used both staples and thread. I dont know, it does not look so pretty, it looks like a Frankenstein-like job. Right now, she has the world's most giant cone and is very very loopy from the sedation. She is so sad.
The good thing is, since we were at the vet, I asked him to do a thorough exam. She's negative for heartworm (she ran out of pills). yea! Lastly, I noticed that she has gotten really skinny again. I was worried because I didn't know whether it was the nursing, the loss of hair or what, but she eats ALOT. So, I asked the doctor to check for giardia and he did a fecal exam and everything was negative. He told me that its normal for girl dogs to get skinny while nursing. Also, hunting breeds tend to be skinnier as they are more hyper and that I shouldn't worry. To you guys that have had litters, do you notice hair loss and loss of weight?
Anyhow, it's her first bday tomorrow and I feel really bad that she's stuck in a cone.
Things were not too bad with Bea and Kilbe after she gave birth. For some reason, I don't know why, but Bea just left her alone and Kilbe did not get into Bea's face. However, for the past week, they have been at one other again. It sucks.
After giving birth, Kilbe stopped acting hyper but now, she is. She wanted to go hang out with the neighbor's dog so she decided to dig a giant hole and tunnel her way to the neighbor's house--multiple times. However, because of the chain link and how we covered the hole, she got a bunch of scratches on her feet (from the blocks of cement, wood and other stuff we used to try to block that area). Also, because she does not have that much fur, her skin gets scratched pretty easily.
The worse thing happened today. Really early this morning, I let Kilbe out to go pee. There were rabbits on the other side of the fence (I didnt see) so she went beserk. Bea heard her, busted through the screen door and went down. Kilbe in her hunt mode, literally runs over Bea and this sets Bea off. Bea starts going after Kilbe and catches her feet (scratched her). When I saw that Bea busted the screen door, I ran inside and got my tennis shoes so that i can get down my hill ( i was wearing flip flops). I pick up Bea, ran back inside the house. Then I come back to get Kilbe and I guess the rabbits were running around because she kept trying to get under, squeeze through the fence while avoid being caught by me. Finally, I caught her and stuck her in the crate. She started whining and whimpering but I ignored her and went back to sleep because it was so cold and I was so annoyed. When I woke up later and let her out, after she did her Laika 500s I noticed a 2 inch C cut on her side, but it was so deep that the skin was hanging off and I could see the meat underneath. Blood was not gushing out. Anyhow, took her to the vet, she had to be sedated, get stitches. Oddly, the cut was a C, but the line of stitches ended up being a vertical 4 inch line. The vet said he cut the dead skin off and the way it was ripped, it was better for healing to push the ends together in a vertical line than a C. Anyhow, I am a little skeptical because it looks really gross and he used both staples and thread. I dont know, it does not look so pretty, it looks like a Frankenstein-like job. Right now, she has the world's most giant cone and is very very loopy from the sedation. She is so sad.
The good thing is, since we were at the vet, I asked him to do a thorough exam. She's negative for heartworm (she ran out of pills). yea! Lastly, I noticed that she has gotten really skinny again. I was worried because I didn't know whether it was the nursing, the loss of hair or what, but she eats ALOT. So, I asked the doctor to check for giardia and he did a fecal exam and everything was negative. He told me that its normal for girl dogs to get skinny while nursing. Also, hunting breeds tend to be skinnier as they are more hyper and that I shouldn't worry. To you guys that have had litters, do you notice hair loss and loss of weight?
Anyhow, it's her first bday tomorrow and I feel really bad that she's stuck in a cone.
Comments
Please be sure to be extra careful keeping your bitches seperate. Some wont tolerate other bitches anywhere near their puppies and that's how puppies and dams can end up bitten and injured.
Are you considering rehoming one of the girls still?
When females are nursing, especially nursing older pups, they burn though a ton of calories producing milk (just like humans), so that is why she is eating so much.
----
In a parallel note, I noticed that Bea has gained a lot of weight (her food intake is pretty normal; I don't really feed her more) and she is a bit more aggressive with Kilbe now than before puppies (Bea LOVES the puppies, she plays with them, licks them,etc.). Also, she's 8, and I was wondering, @lindsayt and @curlytails you see a lot of shibas or you have had experience with this was there anything that you can tell that it's a thyroid issue? I made an appointment for next week for a blood test, but I just wanted to ask in the meantime.
Kaia is 8 years old too, and she is a fatty. She eats almost nothing but is always fat. She has a thyroid issue too. Just giving some info, not suggesting Bel has one.
----
Kaia sounds like Bea. Bea just exploded and she barely eats too. I thought she was feeding herself with all the mice and lizards she caught.
Here is Dr. Dodd's site: http://hemopet.org
----
http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/6187/thyroid-testing-maybe-hypothyroidism/p1
As you'll see, there are several folks on the Shiba side that have to deal with thyroid issues. =P
Bloodwork is the only way to know for sure if thyroids are off (and you'll want at least the free T4 along with the T4 -- or, echoing Brad, just order the appropriate bloodwork from Dr. Dodds' lab as they'll know what to look for). A lot of the symptoms overlap with other possible issues, so it seems that many vets don't even have thyroid problems on their radar. There apparently wasn't even a real consensus on diagnostic protocol until the last decade or so, so more "old-school" vets still try to make decisions based on T4 alone, when you really need more than that to make an appropriate diagnosis.
As for symptoms: weight gain -- and difficulty losing weight is definitely one. So is aggression, irritability. Skin and fur issues are another very common one. Hyperpigmentation, lethargy... there are quite a few symptoms that you can Google.
From the stuff I was reading, hypo dogs that start displaying clusters of symptoms probably have most of their thyroid function destroyed already, so if you do start hormone supplementation, you basically have to do it for life. Luckily, it's a very cheap medication, something like 10 cents a day for us. It's not a life or death issue if Bowdu misses a dose. He just needs to go in for regular bloodwork to make sure the levels are consistent. Average age of dogs at diagnosis was around 5 or 6 years old, and some breeds definitely show a statistical tendency towards thyroid problems.
The good thing about sending thyroid tests to Dr. Dodds is that she does track for breed prevalence. Last I asked, she didn't have a critical mass of Shiba data in her database to make any generalizations, but she has a growing number, and every contribution will help. Michigan State University is another site that specializes in endocrine issues, and they do track by breed as well. If your vet sends the data in through Antech or IDEXX or one of the other typical veterinary labs, you'll still get accurate results, but they don't seem to differentiate by breed nor do they offer the type of personalized consultation that Dr. Dodds' lab does.
However, not every vet is willing to work with Dr. Dodds for various reasons. So just be prepared for that. At worst, you can ask them to draw the blood and you can send it in to her lab yourself. They'll fax a copy of their lab results to your vet anyway.
Hope some of this info helps...
http://hemopet.org/images/TESTREQINSTRUCTIONS.pdf
Ohhh....the heartworm test is soo cheap! I spent $35 to get Kilbe tested this weekend. UGH.
Hemopet has very reasonable lab prices for what they offer, in my opinion -- certainly relative to California vet prices! One of the FAQ points was something like, "Why do the labs cost so much?" But from my perspective, she offers most of the tests MUCH cheaper than local vets. That Thyroid Profile 4 Plus test, for example, was literally twice as expensive at my local VCA vet, and they didn't even include T3. Of course, you'd have to pay someone to draw and centrifuge the blood (unless you can do that yourself) and you pay for shipping... but sending labwork to Dr. Dodds has always been cheaper in my experience, though not necessarily more efficient.
I ran into a bit of that (not sure if you read through my whole, long thread on the Shiba side). Suffice to say, I learned a lot about how to talk to vets when working through that whole ordeal with Bowdu. Bottom line is you're paying, and you should be able to have it done where you want. I can understand if they want you to send it out yourself, but then hopefully they don't make a fuss about drawing Bea's blood. =P
I guess Dr. Dodds remains controversial for a number of reasons. It's not like she's entirely outside the veterinary establishment though. I know in my area there is at least one vet that is an official "affiliate," which just means I know I don't have to explain or run through that whole rigamarole if I ask them to send labwork directly to Hemopet instead of the standard veterinary labs. But they're pricey... for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with their connection to Dr. Dodds.
Just thought I'd add that if she hasn't had a full blood panel done recently, then it's probably worth doing the Thyroid 4 Plus. I think when they start to get up there in years, it's worth investing in more thorough examinations, including full bloodwork.
Also, sorry to hijack poor Kilbe's thread with Bea talk! I have no experience with post-maternity health, but it does sound like there's a lot going on and I hope everything returns to safety and normalcy soon enough...
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/BLOOD-TEST-EXPLAINED.HTM
Some of the info re: Hemopet is a little outdated in the above link, but there are some useful explanatory links there. I'm no expert on reading or interpreting the numbers -- that's what the vet's for.
Kilbe is not happy! She keeps bumping into EVERYTHING.
For Bea, I'd for sure do the Thyroid 4 panel (or the plus one M.C. mentioned). It really does sound like thyroid issues. Both my Shibas are hypothyroid. Neither have issues with their coat (a classic sign) but both have weight issues, and Bel gets aggressive if she is off her thyroid meds even by a little bit). Even medicated, Toby is so fat, and I can't get his weight down though he gets fed hardly anything at all, so weight gain is often a sign.
Re: vets working with Dr. Dodds. One of my vets (the more conservative of the two, the husband) did not want to work with her, as some think she is too out of the mainstream. But my vets are really good about agreeing to disagree, and so they drew the blood and we sent it in, and they liked the results we got back, and the detail, and the price, which is slightly lower than the local lab they use. I don't know that my vet has changed his mind about Dr. Dodds, but he is certainly less resistant. Bottom line is, its our dogs, so we get to make the decisions. She is an expert in canine thyroid issues, and is also has come up with a very good vaccination protocol, and hemopet is easy to work with and pretty inexpensive, so I like them. And she is gathering information on breeds with thyroid issues, and breeds that have shown hypersensitivity to vaccinations (Akitas being one, and I firmly believe this is likely true of all NKs), so she does good work.
(not that you needed convincing. I just got on a roll there! *lol*)