I also don't like the cropped ears/docked tail of Dobermans and I'm sure most Doberman breeders are 100% for it. But so far it seems very common to not crop the ears of Beaucerons. Their faces also aren't as sharp or harsh as the Dobermans seem to be.
But again, that's just on looks alone, I haven't done any comparison's between the 2 breeds as far as temperament/personality.
@Loni- I don't recall Dals having a high incidence of dog bites. A lot of them wound up in shelters after the Disney Dalmatian movies because people went out and got those cute spotted puppies and then discovered that they were not stuffed toys. Plus there were a lot of puppy mill Dals (as a result of the movies/popularity) that had health/ temperament issues from being in puppy mills. Our family had Dals for 30 years and they were not "dangerous dogs", but they would guard and defend their people and territory if required. My large liver male had a wider "English head" which looked vaguely "pitbullish" and people tended to give him a wide berth because of that. Plus he was over breed standard and just plain solid. (Note: According to some sources, there may have been some common terrier blood way back in Dal lines.) One amusing story we tell about our first family Dal: Because she had been raised around the military, "Diana" liked men in uniform, including the postman. She was also one of those Dals that grinned to greet you. Well, the grin looked more like a snarl. We had to periodically explain to the postal workers that "no, she's not going to take a chunk out of you. She likes you and that is actually a grin."
& sucks that so many of them ended up in shelters. ): By "dangerous dogs" I just meant that they were originally bred as guard dogs, and they're not really associated with that anymore. Most people wouldn't see a Dalmatian and think to stay away from it.... Not that they don't make excellent family pets. (: It is probably the mill dogs that I heard about. I just remember hearing something in the past about dalmatians and dog-bites, it was a while ago though and possibly not true.
I have heard great things about http://www.pawsnclaws.us/beauceindex.htm for Beaus in the US. I believe Corina knows this breeder as she also breeds mals. If I was going to go with a Mal or Beau, I'd go with her. [ I haven't spoken to her personally, but have heard great things, like her contract, & how she raises her dogs ]
Just be careful, as Beaus, like dutchies & mals [ or any working / sport breed ] will vary greatly depending on the breeder / lines. ~
@loni- Maybe you should narrow your list at some point and check out the breeds at various shows and meetups. Maybe even take the Shiba and Shikoku/Laika to these events and see how they "mesh" with the other breeds.
@ayk That's one of the breeds my boyfriend is very interested in. I think we read somewhere that they have a tendency to be dog aggressive, which would probably make them unfit for us. But if that "dog aggressiveness" comes down to simple proper socialization, it wouldn't be an issue. (It doesn't say anything about it on the link you gave me, so could have been misinformation as well).
Edit: Found this information as well, which contradicts the dog aggressive thing~ "These dogs are very energetic and often quite amusing and entertaining to watch while at play. When properly socialized from a young age, the Czechoslovakian Vlcak gets along well with small children and other pets, often making friends quickly due to its need to run in a pack. This breed is very territorial and protective, making an amazing guard and watch dog, willing to do whatever is necessary to protect is owner and property. The Czechoslovakian Vlcak is loyal, loving, and affectionate, making an excellent family pet and companion alike."
@loni- Maybe you should narrow your list at some point and check out the breeds at various shows and meetups. Maybe even take the Shiba and Shikoku/Laika to these events and see how they "mesh" with the other breeds.
This is our plan. We won't be getting another dog until we move (we are both military and will be moving at the end of 2014/beginning of 2015). So I'm thinking it will be mid 2015-sometime in 2016 before we'll be ready for a puppy(or possibly dog). Our list is somewhat narrowed down at this point... Somewhat.
I think we can take out any of the giant/mastiff-y type breeds due to their low life expectancy, and fact that most wouldn't make good running partners. (As much as my boyfriend loves mastiffs, I just don't think they would work.)
The highest probables for us(me) as of now are: Beauceron Belgian Malinois Dutch Shepherd Rhodesian Ridgeback
He would really like: Czechoslovakian Vlcak Tamaskan
A lot more research is needed into each breed, and we're still looking to see if there would be better fits. & that's of course just the purebreds, that isn't taking into account that it may be just as easy to find a shelter dog that will fit into our lives.
Edit: The more I'm reading about the Vlcaks, I think they are moved up to the probables list, and not just the "he wants" list. I think the only thing that would be a problem is they seem more difficult than a NK....
Since I worked for CFS for years the highest bite rate is Golden Retrievers but like Dalmations they don't scare people. Dalmations would bite. It sounds like you just want a scary looking dog though.
Since I worked for CFS for years the highest bite rate is Golden Retrievers but like Dalmations they don't scare people. Dalmations would bite. It sounds like you just want a scary looking dog though.
Yeah, we just want one that would make somebody think twice... Our current dogs are so adorable that even when they try to be scary, it's just cute...
My feeling with the Vlcaks is that there aren't a lot of them and the breeders are protective of where they go to.
The one I met at the UKC was a young adolescent male who was shipped from the East Coast. Still very playful with jumping-on-people manners. There are GSD traits in the appearance of these dogs (ears, longer tail), but the yellow eyes, lanky size, long legs, and wolf-colored coat had made me instantly wonder if he was a wolfdog before I was introduced to him.
I did see on a UKC Facebook site that at another show, a White GSD (or maybe it was White Shepherd) person had issues with him grumbling at her puppy. Methinks it was more that the puppy was being the exuberant and offended the dog's sense of order rather than a male-to-male challenge, but people will take it how they will.
The Vlacks were bred to have the obedience of a GSD but the stamina and strength of a wolf. A few of the breeders I've considered required a history of training GSD before allowing me to have one of their pups.
They have not had any wolf introduced into their pedigree since the 1960's.
I've decided you need a mastiff. Lol. I'm pretty sold on this. :-p
My boyfriend's response to this comment: "I'm good with that." Lol. The things that make me not want a mastiff are their life expectancy, and the fact that most wouldn't make good running partners.
At this point we think a Belgian Malinois might be the best fit, but research of other breeds is still ongoing.
Why a Rhodesian Ridgeback? They are hunters not guardians
They're not on "the list" anymore, they were there as a possibility before doing more research into them. Was considering them due to their loyalty, intelligence, and stamina. I've also read that they are excellent hiking/running partners.
We also weren't really looking for a guardian exactly. Just any dog that is on the larger side (around 24" or more, but possibly left), that can get along with our 2 dogs and a cat, and would at least look threatening to strangers. Preferably with a high energy level.
Looks wise, we seem to favor the pointed ear spitz looking breeds, but that's obviously not the most important thing.
Oh! This doesn't really have to do with the current search for a dog breed, but my boyfriend made a comment about Shibas today that made me laugh. We had just fed them their evening meal. When Kiyomi finishes her food she lets us know by making Shiba "Aaaaarrrrrrhhhhh. Roooooorrr. Raaa-aaarrh." noises. Like she's saying "Okay, I'm done eating, you can let me out now"! So she starts doing this today and he just looks at me and says "Why did you want a Shiba?" as I started telling him him he says "Did you know they did that?" I just started laughing. It cracked me up. I guess I've just gotten so used to the Shiba noises that I don't think of it as strange anymore.
Comments
http://beauceronbreedclub.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/7/4/13740122/1137378_orig.jpg
Which is gorgeous.
I also don't like the cropped ears/docked tail of Dobermans and I'm sure most Doberman breeders are 100% for it. But so far it seems very common to not crop the ears of Beaucerons. Their faces also aren't as sharp or harsh as the Dobermans seem to be.
But again, that's just on looks alone, I haven't done any comparison's between the 2 breeds as far as temperament/personality.
Puppies! http://hyperanzeigen.at/x-at/inz/14/14748-beauceron-welpen-harlekin-und-black-and-tan-4.jpg
& sucks that so many of them ended up in shelters. ): By "dangerous dogs" I just meant that they were originally bred as guard dogs, and they're not really associated with that anymore. Most people wouldn't see a Dalmatian and think to stay away from it.... Not that they don't make excellent family pets. (:
It is probably the mill dogs that I heard about. I just remember hearing something in the past about dalmatians and dog-bites, it was a while ago though and possibly not true.
Just be careful, as Beaus, like dutchies & mals [ or any working / sport breed ] will vary greatly depending on the breeder / lines. ~
http://czechoslovakianvlcak.org/
They might be a bit challenging though.
(It doesn't say anything about it on the link you gave me, so could have been misinformation as well).
Edit: Found this information as well, which contradicts the dog aggressive thing~
"These dogs are very energetic and often quite amusing and entertaining to watch while at play. When properly socialized from a young age, the Czechoslovakian Vlcak gets along well with small children and other pets, often making friends quickly due to its need to run in a pack. This breed is very territorial and protective, making an amazing guard and watch dog, willing to do whatever is necessary to protect is owner and property. The Czechoslovakian Vlcak is loyal, loving, and affectionate, making an excellent family pet and companion alike."
Our list is somewhat narrowed down at this point... Somewhat.
The highest probables for us(me) as of now are:
Beauceron
Belgian Malinois
Dutch Shepherd
Rhodesian Ridgeback
He would really like:
Czechoslovakian Vlcak
Tamaskan
A lot more research is needed into each breed, and we're still looking to see if there would be better fits. & that's of course just the purebreds, that isn't taking into account that it may be just as easy to find a shelter dog that will fit into our lives.
Edit: The more I'm reading about the Vlcaks, I think they are moved up to the probables list, and not just the "he wants" list. I think the only thing that would be a problem is they seem more difficult than a NK....
We had one when I was a teenager.
Since I worked for CFS for years the highest bite rate is Golden Retrievers but like Dalmations they don't scare people. Dalmations would bite. It sounds like you just want a scary looking dog though.
The one I met at the UKC was a young adolescent male who was shipped from the East Coast. Still very playful with jumping-on-people manners. There are GSD traits in the appearance of these dogs (ears, longer tail), but the yellow eyes, lanky size, long legs, and wolf-colored coat had made me instantly wonder if he was a wolfdog before I was introduced to him.
I did see on a UKC Facebook site that at another show, a White GSD (or maybe it was White Shepherd) person had issues with him grumbling at her puppy. Methinks it was more that the puppy was being the exuberant and offended the dog's sense of order rather than a male-to-male challenge, but people will take it how they will.
They have not had any wolf introduced into their pedigree since the 1960's.
The things that make me not want a mastiff are their life expectancy, and the fact that most wouldn't make good running partners.
At this point we think a Belgian Malinois might be the best fit, but research of other breeds is still ongoing.
We also weren't really looking for a guardian exactly. Just any dog that is on the larger side (around 24" or more, but possibly left), that can get along with our 2 dogs and a cat, and would at least look threatening to strangers. Preferably with a high energy level.
Looks wise, we seem to favor the pointed ear spitz looking breeds, but that's obviously not the most important thing.
We had just fed them their evening meal. When Kiyomi finishes her food she lets us know by making Shiba "Aaaaarrrrrrhhhhh. Roooooorrr. Raaa-aaarrh." noises. Like she's saying "Okay, I'm done eating, you can let me out now"! So she starts doing this today and he just looks at me and says "Why did you want a Shiba?" as I started telling him him he says "Did you know they did that?" I just started laughing. It cracked me up.
I guess I've just gotten so used to the Shiba noises that I don't think of it as strange anymore.