I will be taking Koda to a place in Berkeley if the testing on arthritis keeps looking as they do.
His TPLO leg will eventually get pretty bad. It's already in the plans. They have already taken what they need. It's being banked. I had some fat taken during his surgery.
Here's is leading info on alternative therapies for knee, shoulder, elbow injuries:
"Regenerative medicine (stem cells derived from the patient's own fat or bone marrow) may be considered for patients with very early partial tears. The knee is evaluated arthroscopically and if a small percentage of breakdown is noted (less than 25%), this treatment may be considered."
We did not have to go this route so I can't say too much about outcomes.... other than it was an option when my dog had a bicep and shoulder injury if there was continued irritation.
Checking back on this topic. Has anyone had stem cell done or know of anyone that has. How was the outcome? For comparatives what was the cost for storage and or the surgery?
I can check with a friend who had stem cell treatment on her dog for arthritis, I think in SF or Berkeley. If I remember correctly, it didn't really help.
Thanks for any info, it does not have to be Nihon breed. Just trying to get an idea.
Iwroth: What breed does your friend have, how did it work out etc etc in her case? How was the cost?
The price quoted for Stem Cell in our region is 5k for extraction, spin down and surgery. It's more than TPLO.
Tara: That's a good deal. Out of curiosity was there a reason the vet chose TPLO for Koda instead of stem cell to begin with? Did he have full tear CCL, or was it only 25 % to partial? Was it due to size/weight that TPLO was thought best??
How has Koda responded to TPLO? I see the original thread on it but wanted to know how he is doing now....has it been 6 months? ....don't recall.
@StaticFuzz, I can hardly remember the details but could ask. The person is a trainer/dog walker in Berkeley, whom I can contact for better info. The dog was an old Rottweiler or possibly Rottweiler mix, and it didn't help that much. The cost was more like $2K-$3K; this was some years ago, one of the first times it was offered so the cost may have been higher then. @tjbart17,I think it was at SF Vet Specialists, maybe Dr Alan Stewart (sp), who also works or worked at Berkeley Dog & Cat Hospital.
@lwroth As far as I know Berkeley is the only place. At least it was 2 years ago. If you are talking about what used to be known as VCF or Sage, they do not do stem cell therapy that I know of. But I may be wrong on the place you are talking about. That chain is not very reputable in the Bay, so I don't go to them for any surgical needs, nor would I recommend them.
I'll also add that my price did not include extraction, since Koda's UC Davis Surgeon did that for us during his TPLO surgery.
@StaticNfuzz The prices are nowhere near $5,000 here. That's crazy, and actually worth a trip here and for someone to just stay with me rather than paying those prices. I'm 15 minutes away from the Berkeley place. TPLO here is more than $5,000. :-) Maybe it's so cheap because we have an abundance of stem cell research in Berkeley/Oakland.
Koda has had two TPLO surgeries. Stem Cell is not recommended for cruciate ligament tears and is not proven to work.
@tjbart17, not Sage, but SF Vet Specialists, which is now VCA San Francisco Vet Specialists (not sure of the exact name). They still list stem cell treatment under Surgery, and they have quite a good reputation.
Thanks for the info and comparisons. It's not for any of the Nihons thank goodness. Knock on wood a trip out would never be needed for medical reasons….. But thank you so much for the offer. : )
I wanted to know for my aunts sake, she has poodle who has been diagnosed with CCL rupture. The poor crazy little dog has has all sorts of medical issues and prior surgeries, one for Legg-calf perthes disease, another for loose knees, and now this on the opposing side…. by the time she is through she will have a semi bionic dog.
The poodle is not allow to play with my dogs cause the poor thing would just get "smooshed", not that she would mind, but her little body just can't handle it. She's also is a screamer and it sets a lot of dogs off when she visits.
@tjbart17, I'm curious what your experience with VCA SF Specialists has been. You can send me a private communication if you want. I know three of the highly regarded vets there: Allan Stewart, who used to be at Berkeley D&C and did the stem cell therapy on the dog I mentioned; Lisa Klopp, probably the best vet neurologist in Northern California, who saw two of my rescued Akitas when she worked at another clinic; and Margo Mehl, a surgeon who saved one of my Akitas with an incredible 5-1/2 hour surgery when she was at UC Davis. VCA has bought out a *lot* of vet clinics, including the one I've gone to for 23 years and the holistic vet clinic I went to for a while. That's an understandable reason to change names, when the clinic's bought by someone else.
I'm not saying there may not be a good vet or surgeon there, but they are a chain vet office, and you can get top notch surgeons, such as Koda's who heads orthopedic surgery at UC Davis and is the President of the No. California Orthopedic Surgeon Board of Directors who have different guiding principles, vision of how veterinary surgery and care should be provided to their clients and pet owners, as well as missions to serving pet owners with different code of ethics.
It's the culture of that chain that I have an issue with, including gauging prices, charging extras, miscommunication/non-communication with owners about care procedures, and well being reported for misconduct and having their own staff and surgeons say that they were following corporate protocol. Not for me.
I'm sure you seek out the best care for your animals, and I'm sure that you have a good vet there. I just have found different options for my household. I don't want to offend you, but I'm just not going to recommend them.
And yes I have a story that was horrible there and left me in hysterics and having an anxiety attack. I didn't listen to my primary care vet and went there. Thankfully, I didn't let them cut up my animal. This was not SF, but in the East Bay. Still I find that corporations promote cultures that from reviews on the yahoo orthopedic forums and yelp (which have since been deleted...hundreds of reviews deleted) I found to hold true to my experience with that chain.
Well, I'm lucky--my vet has always been an independent vet using a clinic that's now VCA owned; she hasn't changed anything about her principles or practices. I haven't had occasion to use VCA SF Vet Specialists, just know they have some good vets there.
Comments
His TPLO leg will eventually get pretty bad. It's already in the plans. They have already taken what they need. It's being banked. I had some fat taken during his surgery.
"Regenerative medicine (stem cells derived from the patient's own fat or bone marrow) may be considered for patients with very early partial tears. The knee is evaluated arthroscopically and if a small percentage of breakdown is noted (less than 25%), this treatment may be considered."
We did not have to go this route so I can't say too much about outcomes.... other than it was an option when my dog had a bicep and shoulder injury if there was continued irritation.
Snf
Ref: http://vetsportsmedicine.com/
Snf
Jesse
Snf
I haven't had it done for Koda yet but it is still on the table for when he needs it. Storage is $99 per year and his cells were taken during surgery.
Iwroth: What breed does your friend have, how did it work out etc etc in her case? How was the cost?
The price quoted for Stem Cell in our region is 5k for extraction, spin down and surgery. It's more than TPLO.
Tara: That's a good deal. Out of curiosity was there a reason the vet chose TPLO for Koda instead of stem cell to begin with? Did he have full tear CCL, or was it only 25 % to partial? Was it due to size/weight that TPLO was thought best??
How has Koda responded to TPLO? I see the original thread on it but wanted to know how he is doing now....has it been 6 months? ....don't recall.
Snf
Anyone can go to this website and locate a vet. http://www.vet-stem.com/veterinarians.php
I'll also add that my price did not include extraction, since Koda's UC Davis Surgeon did that for us during his TPLO surgery.
@StaticNfuzz The prices are nowhere near $5,000 here. That's crazy, and actually worth a trip here and for someone to just stay with me rather than paying those prices. I'm 15 minutes away from the Berkeley place. TPLO here is more than $5,000. :-) Maybe it's so cheap because we have an abundance of stem cell research in Berkeley/Oakland.
Koda has had two TPLO surgeries. Stem Cell is not recommended for cruciate ligament tears and is not proven to work.
I wanted to know for my aunts sake, she has poodle who has been diagnosed with CCL rupture. The poor crazy little dog has has all sorts of medical issues and prior surgeries, one for Legg-calf perthes disease, another for loose knees, and now this on the opposing side…. by the time she is through she will have a semi bionic dog.
The poodle is not allow to play with my dogs cause the poor thing would just get "smooshed", not that she would mind, but her little body just can't handle it. She's also is a screamer and it sets a lot of dogs off when she visits.
Again thanks
Snf
It's the culture of that chain that I have an issue with, including gauging prices, charging extras, miscommunication/non-communication with owners about care procedures, and well being reported for misconduct and having their own staff and surgeons say that they were following corporate protocol. Not for me.
I'm sure you seek out the best care for your animals, and I'm sure that you have a good vet there. I just have found different options for my household. I don't want to offend you, but I'm just not going to recommend them.
And yes I have a story that was horrible there and left me in hysterics and having an anxiety attack. I didn't listen to my primary care vet and went there. Thankfully, I didn't let them cut up my animal. This was not SF, but in the East Bay. Still I find that corporations promote cultures that from reviews on the yahoo orthopedic forums and yelp (which have since been deleted...hundreds of reviews deleted) I found to hold true to my experience with that chain.