How often, how many times, and until when?
I noted from @*JackBurton* 's response in a puppy thread that he only planned on breeding his female one more time. This had me thinking, and it just hit me that it was never a topic that I'd ever discussed or overheard from the vets that I worked at.
So for the breeders here: How often do you breed your females, and what's the shortest recommended time for the mother to take a break, recover, rest, and to be ready for another pregnancy? How many times overall should a female be birthing puppies? And lastly, what age is it recommended that a female be discontinued from breeding, or is it a total # of pregnancies that is capped?
Pregnancy is rough on the female of any mammalian species, so I figure a rest is warranted. Don't females tend to lose a lot of muscle mass and exhibit hair loss from the heavy demands of growing puppies?
So for the breeders here: How often do you breed your females, and what's the shortest recommended time for the mother to take a break, recover, rest, and to be ready for another pregnancy? How many times overall should a female be birthing puppies? And lastly, what age is it recommended that a female be discontinued from breeding, or is it a total # of pregnancies that is capped?
Pregnancy is rough on the female of any mammalian species, so I figure a rest is warranted. Don't females tend to lose a lot of muscle mass and exhibit hair loss from the heavy demands of growing puppies?
Comments
>> We breed back-to-back for the first two litters, then wait at least one heat cycle (usually two), then do another round of back-to-back litters. We start breeding our females at third heat (second heat if they cycle every 12 months).
How many times overall should a female be birthing puppies?
>> We cap it at 4 litters, but it's really up to the individual dog. For some females whelping is very hard work (like Masha), but for others it is a breeze (Ayu, Kumi).
And lastly, what age is it recommended that a female be discontinued from breeding, or is it a total # of pregnancies that is capped?
>> As mentioned above, we cap at 4 litters. The age is somewhere around 6 years old. That way they have more than half of their life left not to be whelping litters.
Don't females tend to lose a lot of muscle mass and exhibit hair loss from the heavy demands of growing puppies?
>> I dunno about muscle, but for sure they lose a lot of weight and hair. But here is the thing, it's not the whelping that wears them out - it's the nursing! It takes a LOT of energy (fat reserves) to feed several 4+ week old puppies.
If you don't mind the asking, what litter is Ayu on? She's produced such awesome pups, I think any other person would have produced as many litters as possible :P jk of course. True, there is a high cholesterol count for mother's milk. I suppose it's only the underfed mothers that lose muscle once they've run low on fat reserves. Sad, but a good % of pregnant females I've assisted with had incredibly low fat %'s. This is Florida though, backyard breeder central for pits
I'm not a breeder, though I find the article to be fascinating. Size matters it seem
How Long Will Your Dog Be with You? It Depends Heavily on This…
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/05/03/dog-lifespan.aspx
Dr. Jeff Bergin on Responsible Dog Breeding Practices
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/04/05/how-a-newfoundland-pet-dog-reached-17-years.aspx
Ayu has had two litters. She started at her third heat and had two back-to-back litters. We gave her a cycle break, and she will be mated at her next heat.
In other words, skipping a heat does not help in recovery time at all, because she must still go through the hormonal process regardless if she gets pregnant. The recovery time is actually the anestrus period between heat cycles. Every time she cycles she has to recover again. A shortened anestrus is a very bad thing, and if you have a bitch who cycles too quickly, her body isn't giving her enough time to reset and get back to normal. She would have more heats in her lifetime than she should, which will end up having lasting effects. My vet strongly believes in treating short anestrus periods with hormones to delay the onset of the next heat, or even preventing the bitch from cycling completely until ready to breed. Unfortunately the medications available to do this are not very reliable or safe at this time.
Anecdotally, @*JackBurton* once mentioned to me that he noticed Kaede's and Ayame's anestrus period gets longer by a month or two immediately after having a litter. Perhaps dogs are already designed to have a longer recovery time after pregnancy? I haven't heard of any official research about this, however.
Also note, if you're going to breed a bitch X number of times in her life, if you breed every heat or two out of three heats, she will be having those litters at a younger age than if you always skipped a heat. Breeding her younger means her fertility will be better, her litter sizes larger and healther, and that she gets to retire sooner.
Anyway, interesting topic, and shows how important it is to keep learning about animals and keep up to date, because "conventional wisdom" changes as we learn more.
oh, Ayu! I have to admit I read that and though we need another Ayu puppy! But we probably don't really
I am happy that PD took the time to research and consult her vet. IMO, new ideas come and go. I always feel a little better when people get a second opinion.
For me, I see myself going three-four litters. Litter four would be the exception for me. I've noticed that more and more people are starting to look at their breeders breeding practices. From a club standpoint, I like the fact that our members don't over use their dogs. It's cool knowing that our members hold themselves to a higher standard.
Hobby Breeder -- Dog Breeding License Required: Hobby Breeder is any person, except for someone having a valid Animal Facility license who, for pay or other compensation, breeds a female dog must obtain a Hobby Breeding permit in the amount set forth in Section 10.90.010. In order to prevent the over-breeding of animals, each permit authorizes the whelping of no more than one litter per female dog in any 12-month period and no more than one litter per domestic household in any 12-month period. (Los Angeles County Code Title 10, Sec. 10.20.045 and 10.90.010.)
I have no opinion but I respect Yamabushi's transperity and honesty when getting Mika. I trust Jen and Brad. It's also sad to think that Kumi won't bless anyone with puppies soon. :-( I love my little Mika Monster.
Either way like I said I don't care how many times people breed. You are being up front about her having at least three litters already. I don't know her whole past. Just that one litter announcement, your pups, and that she's expecting again.
Ife was four when she gave birth to her first litter and I was really scared what might happen. Almost everyone said that she was too old for first timer but the labour was really easy and quick.
When talking rare breeds like kai is, I think two litters is enough for one female.
@jellyfish
@rikumom Awesome links thank you! I've been building up my beekeeping business, and as a result have so much backwriting/research to do. But I promise to peruse over those the minute I get a chance
You'd think vets should be the same.
That said, I've never had a hard time with vets and intact dogs. London was intact until 3, when I finally felt the pressure to do it (he was trying to break down the fence every time the Cane Corso up the street went into heat and the last thing I wanted were potentially blind, aggro, sassy CC x Malamute puppies roaming the earth).
My vet was never the one that showed preference or pressured me... but I have met some people with a pretty rigid stance from rescue, of course, when I told them that I preferend not to neuter as long as I felt I could properly manage my dog(s) and their health was not jeopardized. They couldn't understand how I could be in rescue and have that opinion.
Also... Thank you for this thread! Love reading it.
After 3 years [ ! ] they have finally let that & the raw feeding go. LOL ~
There are down sides with them too--they're pretty old school, and don't even use computers at all, so I often have to present them with new findings on things (but if I find stuff, they'll go do further research on their own), and they still say things like "never take a puppy out anywhere til it's had all it's shots," etc, but I find a good balance in that I know I can talk to them, present my ideas which will be respected, and they'll talk about what they know from their many years of experience and education, and so it works pretty well for us. And they're cheap. I feel pretty lucky overall!