Yeah it's common in the US due to the many bad owners of Akita and many other breeds with a reputation. =\
Wow that must have been awful seeing her react like that to the golf clubs I'm sure she can get over her fears of the gulf club and many other things it sounds from her reactions she was very badly abused yelled at or hit by hand or stick which might be why she was afraid of the gulf club, but sad thing you'll probably never know what happened in her past, but with time she'll heal and come to trust you and your husband. With work maybe she won't be afraid of the golf club or she might be afraid no matter how much you work to get her over it.
She's not too happy with her harness? Maybe use a special treat to get her to associate the harness= yummy treat and walk. Maybe if she gets a little treat for each step of putting the harness on she'll make less of a fuss over it. I dunno though I'm just guessing on all this.
I'm happy she's having less and less of her freak outs I bet as time goes by she'll get better and better it'll take some time, but it'll happen just take it one step at a time and you'll get there. =)
Hi Migoo, I'm really glad to hear that Akita's are not feared in Sweden! Maybe someday America will wise up, but I doubt it. I had a VERY hard time just getting her licensed in my small community, with my last dog, Buddy (part Akita) I had no problem getting his license. This time for Kylee I argued for over an hour & finally got it. I did find out also that if my ins company finds out that she's a purebred Akita my home owners policy will triple. This makes me insane! 2 houses down from me, she has 2 untrained German Shepard's. 3 houses down he has 5 untrained pit bulls, the pits are constantly getting out & snarling at the kids on the playground across the street. All of that seems fine to these rednecks but my Akita, whom is being trained to be a perfect lady, is a thorn in city hall's toe. I don't really care. Me & Kylee walk right past the Shepard's, pit bulls & City Hall with our collective head held high. Life may have originally given Kylee lemons but we are now on our way to making lip smacking lemonade! :-)
Aw, she's lovely! I know you are facing a ton of resistance and disapproval in your community but you really are doing a fantastic thing. Hopefully, as Kylee settles in and heals, and you guys all get to bond and learn together, she'll become an akita ambassador and teach the people that meet her just how awesome akita are with love and proper care. Even if they refuse to change, the sacrifices you are making are obviously making a huge difference for her. You have my respect and admiration for that.
Ki is no akita but he isn't a small dog nor a 'normal-looking' one. I found that in cases where his breed and/or size might become an issue (for me it's renting but for you it's more insurance/vet/classes/etc) it really helped for him to have a little portfolio. I know it's too early for Kylee to have something like that since she still needs a lot of help and time to heal, but eventually it may be something that could help you. Basically Ki has a binder with records of his vet appointments/results, training, accomplishments, schedule, and even references. It's sort of like a resume. lol I use it to help prove that he is well behaved and well cared for despite his nebulous past and suspicious breed make up. It doesn't always work when there is a hard line policy working against him but it helps in situations where there is room for negotiation and trust. It has a bonus of being good reference material whenever someone has to dog-sit.
Keep up the good work! Can't wait for more Kylee spam.
Ah... that sounds terrible. I can't imagine how that is like because we don't have anything like that here in Sweden. Quite interesting discussion! So you really mean that if you get an Akita the rest of the citizens in your town will have to pay more for their insurance? That sounds crazy!!!
What's that license you are talking about? I'm sorry butt that's something new for me
Migoo, I'll try to clear up the confusion as I was quite emotional when I posted yesterday. I was talking about Kylees dog license. Here, every dog must be registered with the county and receive a license. ( if you don't get her license, you get a ticket) As for the insurance, not everyones insurance goes up, only the owner of the "dangerous" dog, that would be me :-) So instead of my house insurance costing $700. per year it will cost $2100. per year. If they only knew that Kylee's goal in life is to collect a bear hug from everybody she meets perhaps this wouldn't happen. It tears me up to know that there will be many, many Akita's that will not find a forever home simply because local government makes you go through this. There is no hurdle I will not jump for Kylee. She is now my princess and I will fight for her at every step. My goal is for Kylee to be an ambassador for Akita's everywhere. If she can overcome her past, and I know she will, then maybe she can teach our community that to have an Akita is to have unconditional love. amesylph, I really love the idea of a doggie "resume"! Thank you for sharing that. I will start Kylee's now. Oh what fun it will be! We never had children so this will be like making a baby book :-) We will be spending the day training indoors. It's raining for the 2nd day in a row & the 'lil princess' does not like to get her beautiful fur coat wet. I think she's trying to train me to hold an umbrella for her while she pees :-) What a diva! I wouldn't want it any other way!
GGGRRR, bad day. I took Kylee to the vets office for a check up. He has been my vet for many, many years, this has just ended! He seemed very leery of Kylee & even though she was licking his hand and being very friendly, he said he wanted to muzzle her before the exam because she's an "AKITA", oh the horror, it's an Akita. I told him no. He has NEVER muzzled any of my dogs over the years & there was no reason (other than her breed) to muzzle her. As we were discussing this I mentioned some things that I had read on here. For instance, she's a white sock so she MIGHT be sensitive to meds ect. His response, "You really need to stay off of that computer". Needless to say, Me & Lil Princess marched our selves outta there. Now we have to go through this ordeal of finding a new vet that is not afraid of Akita's. Poor Kylee. Someday maybe we'll all live in a fair world.
Oh no! That sounds terrible and seen from my point of view it looks really stupid! What kind of vet is that? Is it really this bad over there in the US?
We have a vet we regularly go to and our dogs are usually good when we are there. Unfortunately, when the vet takes them 'to the back', they tend to get scared and will start snapping. They usually put a muzzle on them in those occurrences since I rather have a happy vet than a bitten vet. I have shibas though so other than being cunningly annoying, they don't have the bad rep Akitas have.
The vet you go to may be ignorant but I think he is also looking out for himself and his staff as well. Though I definitely would look for a different one with his tone of voice.
The vet should not be in practice. If you have an animal that displays fear or aggression, regardless of breed, by all means muzzle. But muzzling BECAUSE of her breed, ESPECIALLY when she is being outwardly friendly is reprehensible.
I believe I said this before, but when I am going to a new vet or training center, I ask the people on the phone how they feel about pit bulls. Unless their answers is something along the lines of "Pitties?!?!?! All our favorite clients are pit bulls!" I typically keep looking.
As far as liability, if you are afraid of being bitten, don't work with animals. PERIOD.
Good news, I finally found the woman that trained my dog 10 years ago. I just got off the phone with her & I'm very excited! She asked me to bring Kylee to her tomorrow so she can evaluate her then she'll decide which class to put her in. That's all I've been trying to do. With all of these other "trainers" I've spoken to I only wanted them to evaluate her BEFORE they made judgments about her. If after the evaluation it is found that she shouldn't be in a group class then I would say that's fine, you're the expert but until now nobody has even wanted to meet my "AKITA". This woman, Sue, helped me with Buddy, ( part Akita) my last rescue dog. He had lived on the streets for the 1st 5 months of his life so he needed help to trust people, Sue was remarkable with him & he was my best dog ever! I truly miss him! I'm sure that everything will work out great for Kylee now. Sue said she has the perfect vet to send us to, he's in love with Akita's, YEAH! I was beginning to think that all of America had lost their damn minds! Yesterday Kylee was in the backyard while I was gardening. The little 5 year old girl from next door came inside the fence without me seeing her. Usually she just plays with Kylee through the fence. When I looked to see what all the giggling was about, there was Kylee laying on her back all 4 legs straight up in the air licking Abbey while she layed on top of Kylee. So much for the "dangerous Akita syndrome". Off to play with my princess, just couldn't wait to share the news, Kylee will be fine!!!!
How exciting!! That's great that you've found a vet and were able to contact the trainer you had worked with previously! Sounds like things will start looking up even more for your princess. Yay!
Welcome! I'm on the board irregularly, but I do check in. We adopted an adult female Akita this summer. We've had some challenges (search on "Twix"), but are working through them. The first few weeks were the hardest as we learned about each other. Twix was not abused as bad as Kylee, but bad enough that she does have an aversion to anything that looks like a club. She is doing better as she has learned that we will not hit her. I can carry a 2X4 without her dropping to the ground or running away. She still looks at it, but I speak to her reassuringly and make sure I don't wield the stick in anything that could be mistaken for an aggressive manner.
Twix doesn't bark much. She'll vocalize occasionally, but she only barks at men under 6 feet tall with dark hair. I suppose we have an image of her previous owner? She is animal aggressive. I'm not sure we'll work that out of her easily, if at all. We have decided to accept that fact and work with it. She is fearful of other dogs and expresses it aggressively. Something you might need to consider is accepting some quirks for the long term while you build relationships, then work on behavior.
(Note: I've received a lot of good advice on this forum and some members might recognize their own words in this post, thanks!)
Akitas are large, powerful, determined, strong-willed dogs. They are very loving, but very strong. I think it's important for your dog to know you will not hurt it, it should learn to trust you, but it should recognize that it is never ok to act agressively towards you.
This, of course, is my expert opinion based on my long experience with Akita's...all of 5 months...so take it for what it's worth!
One night my 13 year-old daughter was being dropped off from baby-sitting before the rest of the family made it home. She came to the back door, opened it, and went back up the steps to the fence to let the driver know she could get in the house. She said that Twix, now about 75-80 pounds, came charging up the steps, ears laid back, teeth bared, hackles raised and in a real rage...but no noise. As soon as she recognized my daughter she went all wiggly and happy to see her. Hannah said she understood what an intruder would experience and was glad Twix was on our side. No warning, just a silent rush of fangs and claws. With that in mind, it is very important to build the relationship with the dog, make sure it knows you are a caring provider and master, and that you can and will take care of problems so it doesn't have to, and most of all you need to be sure she will not be able to harm anyone else or any other animal in the wrong context. She is capable of it, and with baggage from bad experiences it will take some time and care to stabilize her.
As much as we trust and love Twix, we will never leave her alone with a child that is not part of our family, and don't often leave hear alone with our own young ones. She has nipped at them when they have been too inconsiderate of her space. She was reprimanded, but so were they. We do not leave her in a yard where she could jump the fence, and don't use any gear that she could possibly break. Plastic, nylon, etc. is out. She's still aggressive toward other animals and needs more training before I trust that she will respond to a verbal recall or distraction.
I guess the purpose of this book (sorry) is to illustrate that you can have a great dog for a long time, and you are doing a noble work, but it is work and it will be a while, and it is not without it's risks. Keep it up, find a GOOD trainer, learn from the best forums/books/videos you can find, and enjoy your new friend as you work things out. Some people will be afraid, some will be mean and rude. Be careful who you share her history with, and how you do it. Until she actually causes a problem for anybody, her background and current behavior issues are a family matter that are being handled appropriately within the family. We find it easier to take this approach than fight ignorance and misinformation. Let them know she is a good dog and you are working on training, which she is taking to very well. Don't expect anybody else to behave responsibly, expect them to NOT do so and when they do thank them. Expect off leash agressive dogs with clueless owners, expect kids to kick at the fence and dump poison over it because she's an Akita and barks at them. Expect people to pull away and protect their children from the savage beast, and others to run up and love her aggressively. Expect strangers to stop their cars and tell you about the Akita's they have had and loved. Plan for these things and when they happen you will have prepared and they won't be a problem or surprise.
Sorry if that's all too direct, but these are experiences we have had in our neighborhood, or our close friends have had with their Akita's. Good luck and keep it up!
Thank you Mdarius. I'm happy to hear of your success. I have no doubt that we will get there in time too. After yesterday at the trainer's I think we are also dealing with aggression toward other dogs. Kylee has been with dogs and seemed quite happy but when we were at Sue's (trainer) a woman came in with a 200 lb Mastiff, Sampson. He was being dropped off for the day. Kylee was on leash, Sampson was not. He acted like a big old teddy bear & walked toward the door that he knew he was going to. He stopped along side Kylee for an instant. Kylee smelled him then in the blink of an eye she lunged at him snarling, before I could pull her away she snapped at his face (close call). He just stood there & didn't react. Sampson's owner said, "oh, don't worry about that, all dogs, even little poodles, bite Sampson because they are afraid of his size". I felt bad for Sampson but he calmly walked through his door. We continued working with Kylee & another dog came in. This time is was a 5 lb dog, Sue took this dog in her arms & started walking past Kylee to put it in the other room. Same thing happened, Kylee acted like Cujo. To make a long day short (?) Sue said that it was partly because Kylee was on leash & the other dogs were off leash & partly that she is being extremely protective of me. We have a plan now to work on that issue but we have other issues to work on first. I'm very happy that I witnessed that behavior in a controlled setting because now I will be more aware of it during our daily walks. She pays no attention to other dogs on our walks but at least now I know the potential is there. All in all Sue said that Kylee is going to be a wonderful dog (see, I knew it :-) ) she obeyed Sue's sit command ect immediately. I think we have come a very long way in less than a month but we have a long ways to go. I think that at some point I will get her involved in fun classes (after we learn our manners of course). She seems so happy when I teach her a new word and she gets it right. I'm going to check & see what dog 'sports' are available in this area. And, Yes, I have received the very best advice on this forum! I am so thankful that I found you all! Thanks a bunch. I'm sure that at some point Kylee will say thank you too, she's just not quite ready to be polite to others :-)
Good to hear you're getting some good training. I don't have much advice because we are going through some of the same things at the same time, but I can commiserate with you.
Like you we have been astonished (to strong?) at how smart Twix is. She learns SO fast and is so responsive...when there is not something more interesting nearby. I'm sure we are developing some bad habits in her that we will have to work on later, but we are sure enjoying her. I guess there's all the behaviors that you admire in other people's dogs, then there is the way YOU live. For us, we need to train Twix to get along with our lifestyle and family, not to do what everybody else thinks she should. I would say that as you work with this trainer you should let her know your lifestyle and how you intend to include Kylee in it. I'm sure that will help get the right training.
I recognize we might have to change some behavior so the dog can be happy and functional also, but I think it's a compromise.
I totally agree with that. As far as I'm concerned Kylee really only has to learn some basic manners & by doing that I think it will boost her self esteem. She is not a circus performer so she doesn't have to learn tricks to make me happy. I'm going to play it by ear, after she gets the basics I will decide the next step. I only want her to be happy. It's just hubby & me and we almost never have company so she, like all of my previous dogs only has learn basics. She truly seems happy most of the time but then she has her moments like tonight. She was fine all day then awhile ago she seemed to slip into her mild depression, it's during these moments that we need to be careful how fast we move our arms because she gets head shy when depressed. Thankfully these happen less & less often now. The trainer thinks we should immediately make her stop sucking on our thumbs, I disagree. I don't see it as a problem & if it gives her comfort then by all means she is welcome to do it :-) Thanks for sharing. I do appreciate it!
I wonder why the trainer thinks that? Is it just because it's unfamiliar behavior to the trainer, or do they have a valid reason? I'll admit, it's a little weird, but as long as she's not causing a problem for anybody else on the planet, what the heck.
Twix has been regressing a little in regards to her behavior with other people. I don't know if she's becoming more protective of us, or if the situations are just arising more, but she has started "woofing" at people that come to visit. It's not a full on bark, but she'll vocalize and you know she's not thrilled to see them. It's ALWAYS men, 5'6'' to 5'10'' tall, with dark hair. But that's a pretty average person and she needs to be able to deal with them. I'm concerned that her vocalizing will turn in to aggression, and we really don't want that. Halloween was stressful on her with all the people approaching the house in the dark, coming inside, unfamiliar friends visiting, masks and costumes, etc. I WANT her to protect my family, I DON'T want her to be aggressive towards all strangers. I DON'T want an attack dog, I DO want a protective family member.
We FINALLY got some training classes scheduled with our preferred trainer in the area and will start next week. We'll see how it goes.
Well I think Kylee has lost her da*n mind. She knows several commands now, sit, stay, wait ect. For the last couple of days she acts like she doesn't know anything! I was putting her harness on her earlier today so we could go for a walk. She refused to sit so I gently pushed her butt to the floor into a sit. She'd get up I'd sit her, she's get up, I'd sit her. Determined not to give in to this foolishness, we kept at it for over and hour! Of course the hubby kept saying that I should give her a break & try again later, no way, I cannot let her think that she is in charge so I kept at it. I was exhausted afterward and she still gave me a look like, "I got you". I don't know what's going on, if it was just once then maybe I wouldn't worry but for 2 days now she has been acting like this. Last night while watching TV she kept insisting on getting on the couch next to me & standing up so we was much taller than me. I made her get down & she pouted but she got over it. Hoping this is just a phase & she'll go back to being the Lil princess!
have you thought about using treats and just going back to basic training sessions? Take about 10 minutes to just sit there and work with her sit and rewarding her when she does.
There are several ways to teach a dog to sit (moving a treat over their head is one of them), but you must be careful when it comes to pushing them into a sit. Something the obedience place I go to lectured about that if you choose to "push" a dog into a sit, do not push against the hips. Pushing on the hips is not only bad for them by putting pressure and strain on them, but when the dog is in a standing position their legs are pretty much locked in that position and can also be bad for their knees. Instead, scooping under the butt and pressing along the back of the knees with the side of your arm is a safer way to "push" them into a sit. This way, you're not putting any sort of pressure and you are breaking the lock caused by standing.
But personally, I prefer to use the treat to guide them into a sit and work towards not having to use it as a bribe.
She'd get up I'd sit her, she's get up, I'd sit her. Determined not to give in to this foolishness, we kept at it for over and hour!.... Last night while watching TV she kept insisting on getting on the couch next to me & standing up so she was much taller than me.
Hmmm..... this may have nothing to do with anything, but I would watch her around the house to see if she ever sits normally on her own. Maybe something is bothering her that makes it uncomfortable to sit -- like her hips, or stifles (knees). Both of the scenarios you painted above, speak to her not wanting to sit. Even when she jumped on the couch, she stayed standing -- maybe it wasn't an effort to be "taller" than you, but again a reluctance to sit. Just shooting in the dark here, for possibilities. Too often we attribute such behavior to spite, when there might be a physical reason. I'd also watch how quickly she lays down and in particular, whether she has any difficulty getting up from a down position.
Thanks for these comments. As soon as I read them I took Kylee up to see the vet. He checked her & said that all seems well with her hips, legs, back ect. He did also notice that she seems to be pushing her weight around a bit as opposed to the other times that he has seen her. He said that perhaps now that she is settling into her forever home she is pushing a little to find out exactly what the boundaries are. She is back to chewing on everything in site. Arm chairs, tables, carpet, and my feet. She still has times that she wants to cuddle but more of the day is spent with her challenging me. When it's time for her to come in at night (from the fenced in yard) she ignores us like we're not even there. We have to get the leash walk over to her put the leash on then she will come in the house. This afternoon when I turned my back she snatched the roast off the counter where it was thawing. She didn't really seem to want it, she took it into the living room, dropped it then walked away. I just got off the phone with Sue (our obedience teacher). She said we need to go back to the beginning of her training & start again, slower. That's what we will do then. We will see Sue tomorrow. She doesn't even want her favorite training treats now, when we are training she turns her head away like I'm offering her poison, it took awhile to find treats that she really liked so I guess we're at the beginning with that also. Perhaps I am doing something wrong, Sue will tell me tomorrow but as far as I know I'm doing everything the same way. Of all the dogs we've ever owned, Kylee is the toughest to train. I have confidence that we will get back on track. I will not give up on this precious dog, ever!
Well I'm happy to report that Kylee seems to be back on track. It seems that when I give an inch she wants a mile so we're back to basics & everyone seems happy. I think she's just a bit more head strong than my last dog he was happy being number 3 but Kylee will need more time to come to turns with being #3. As long as I stay strong on everything she's fine but if I get a little lax with the rules she decides to take over. Now I'm back to only letting her on the couch if it's my idea, ect and she's being the lil Princess again.
What you describe is highly typical of dogs in new surroundings with new people. It is known as "honeymooning". The time periods vary, but they settle in and start testing the boundaries. The best thing for Kylee is consistency (dogs do not understand the concept of "sometimes"). Do some research on NILF (nothing in life is free) and ensure that everyone in your household adheres to the rules. Dogs are keen adapters, that's one of their claims to fame as a species, but don't fool yourself into thinking she can be loved into compliance. You have a powerful, intelligent breed with an uncertain past. You with the bigger brain, have to be smart and ALWAYS set yourself up for success. This doesn't mean being harsh but it does mean establishing clear boundaries. You have to let her realize that you hold the key to all things fun...dinner, car rides, access to outdoors, a walk, affection, treats, chewies, EVERYTHING. Leave a long-line on her so you can reinforce the come command even when she is in your own yard. Call her over for the heck of it, give a treat and release her. Don't just call her in when you need her to be inside or you want to do something that she perceives as unpleasant.
The long line is a very good idea. I've often come across the dog owner who tells me that their dog won't come when called. I ask them, Have you actually TAUGHT your dog to come when called? They look at me like I'm from Mars. Since you have a trainer, I'm sure this isn't your situation, but people seem to think that their dogs know English and that they "understand" to come in or come to them just because you say the word Come. Most people know that to teach a dog to sit you either lure the head up and push the butt down, or using a positive method, lure the head up and wait until the butt goes down, then reward. In other words, they know they have to "do" something to get the dog to Sit, but they've never "done" anything to get the dog to come to them. It's a revelation to them that maybe they could spend a little time enforcing a recall with a little quick tug of the line and a treat when the dog gets to them, or calling the dog between two people to reinforce the Come, also with treats -- somehow TEACH the dog what Come means. But again, I'm sure you've gone through these steps with your trainer?
In other words, you have to practice the Come command as a separate exercise, apart from when you use it to call her in from the yard, just like you would practice the Sit and the Down or Stay.
I'm hoping that your instructor has also suggested to you to avoid as much as possible calling her 2 or 3 times and letting her ignore you -- that will establish bad habits. Better to not call at all, but go get her with the line and bring her in happily and cheerfully, under your control.
All very good tips, thank you. We have been practicing the come on a 25' lead, I call her then hubby ect.( during training sessions twice a day) She does it very well every time. I think it is the 'honeymoon" thing mentioned above because I work with her daily and I know that she understands all of this when we're training. It just happened out of the blue that she decided not to do anything that we ask her to do if we're training or not. I admit that I did get lax as far as letting her get on the couch without being invited up first. We are now back to basics and will remain there. She has to be invited on the couch, sit for dinner, ect. Also, today I did something that I never thought I would ever do. I purchased a muzzle. She doesn't want her toe nails clipped and they are way to long, we've been trying for days but she goes into a wild state , I did as instructed & put the leash on her with the leash under my leg so she couldn't get away. That didn't work because she started rolling like a gator and this morning when I tried again she acted like she wanted to bite my hand. I went to the store and bought a muzzle. Tonight we will clip her nails and she'll just have to put up with the muzzle for a few minutes. I like the idea of the long lead in the back yard, I will try it. I have been letting her wander around because it's fenced in and she used to come in when called so it wasn't a problem. When she started her "I'm not listening to you anymore" thing I would call her then walk out & get her when she ignored me. Now I don't call her I just go out to her, when she see's me coming she gets up and heads for the door. I think I will try the long lead in the back yard for awhile & see if it helps. I have also put up the baby gate that I used for training my other dog 9 yrs ago. Now she is restricted to certain parts of the house only. Hubby thinks I'm being mean but I think that if I don't get this corrected now I will end up with an uncontrollable dog and that's not what I want. I know for certain that she can be a fun, lovable dog, I've seen it. We will continue to work together until we get it right.
I went to the store and bought a muzzle. Tonight we will clip her nails and she'll just have to put up with the muzzle for a few minutes.
I'm afraid to ask how the nail clipping went?
You might, at different times from when you are actually clipping, get her used to you handling her feet. Touch feet, say YES and give a treat. Rub feet, say YES and give a treat. Look between the toes, say YES and give treat. Very very brief sessions.
I think we all forget that the MAIN reason dogs hate clippers is that no matter which kind you use, either the scissor type or guillotine type, it hurts the dog a little even if you never cut into the quick, the blood vessel in the nail. Just that squeezing sensation will bother the dog, and so they remember. Forever.
If you file the nail instead, you can't hardly hurt the dog. The Dremel or electric or battery-operated drill is the fastest, but it makes noise. I use a hand-held large file or rasp available at the home improvement stores -- it's a substantial size, maybe 1/2 or 3/4 inch wide. They come with a handle and are called #6 or #8 (depending on inch length) Bastards. Yes, really. 8" mill bastards. It's a slower method but the dogs are unafraid and will just lay there flat on their sides waiting for me to finish 2 or 3 toes, give a treat, finish the foot, give a treat, do one nail on the next foot, give a treat, do the next 4 nails, etc. Randomly reinforced. You file in one direction, upwards and back, not back and forth. Just a thought, if you continue to have problems with your already adult dog.
My little Vallhund literally jumps up and down in anticipation of cookies when I bring out the file. He throws himself down on the ground on his side, feet facing me, so that I can sit on the floor and start filing. That's not to say his foot lies perfectly passive in my hand, he twitches a little, but I just continue on, giving liberal treats. He's never been hurt with a clipper and so he has nothing to fear. My Malinois was clicker-trained to lay still on his side with his head flat on the ground. He still thinks that the whole exercise has something to do with him laying still with his head on the floor. I pick up a foot, his head comes up, I wait, his head thunks to the floor and I click and treat, or now, I just treat. It's kind of funny, actually. Now I can say "Head down", he puts his head down and I do a couple more nails. NOW, at age 13.5, he just falls asleep.
I think you might need to work a little with your Akita, unless she simply submitted passively once muzzled. If so, your worries are over!
No the muzzle was a very bad idea. She actually didn't seem to mind the muzzle, she stood still & let me put it on her. But when I try to clip a nail she goes insane and the 2 of us can't hold her. Part of our training from day one has been to lay on the floor while I rub her, play with her feet-toes, look in her mouth ect. She always allows me to do that but if I have anything in my hand ie: clipper, pedi paw, file, she goes insane. She is used to the pedi paw noise because I started slow by just letting her listen to it. She will walk right up to it and I can touch her anywhere with it EXCEPT her feet. The last episode will be the last for now. I do not want to terrify her. She will be seeing the vet next week & I will ask him what we can do about her nails. It must be one of her mind demons that I know nothing about because she truly loves a good rub down including a long foot massage, something terrifies her about the nails & since I will never know what demons she is dealing with we will find a work around for it. I was hoping that our walks would help to keep her nails a little shorter but that's not the case. Her back nails are perfect length but her front nails are like talons. We've always laughed because she uses her feet more like a cat than a dog but it's not quite so funny now that she has talons :-) She does seem a bit obsessed with her feet, if we walk in the rain she has to stop every few steps to lick a foot clean, then she licks the other foot, then we continue our walk. I swear she's a laugh a minute, this drama queen of mine! When we got her she had nice short nails. Now I have to wonder if maybe they clipped her nails while she was out during surgery to remove her collar. So the saga continues. We've called a truce regarding the nails until the Dr gives us his advice. I did get some advice about it from my "trainer" but I'm not going to be cruel to Kylee. I spoke to a man on the phone yesterday, he's from an Akita rescue, he doesn't like a lot of the things my trainer is having me do with her. He really sounds like he knows the breed very well so we're getting together next week so he can meet Kylee. Fingers crossed.
That's too bad, that she has such a reaction to even a file. Some dogs are like that about their feet, I guess -- whether or not they've actually ever been hurt by a clipper. She doesn't know that the file isn't going to hurt her, it's just another instrument to her.
If you had a LOT of patience and a LOT of time, there are ways to fix this problem if you could find a very positive-oriented, expert clicker trainer. If they can train gorillas to stick their front arms through bars for nail grooming or to give them shots for their diabetes, you can do it for this dog too, but you'd need some direction. It entails clicking and treating when she is lying quietly, then when she is lying quietly when you have a file in your hand from 20 feet away, then 10 feet, then 5 feet, then sitting quietly next to her, then just touching her toes, etc. This could take weeks, but it IS possible, but like I said, it takes someone very well versed in clicker timing.
You may have to resort to what millions of other people do: just take her in to the vet's every so many weeks and have them do it. Or a groomer, possibly. That may be one of the concessions you'll have to make for this adopted dog whose background you don't know much about.
Comments
Wow that must have been awful seeing her react like that to the golf clubs I'm sure she can get over her fears of the gulf club and many other things it sounds from her reactions she was very badly abused yelled at or hit by hand or stick which might be why she was afraid of the gulf club, but sad thing you'll probably never know what happened in her past, but with time she'll heal and come to trust you and your husband. With work maybe she won't be afraid of the golf club or she might be afraid no matter how much you work to get her over it.
She's not too happy with her harness? Maybe use a special treat to get her to associate the harness= yummy treat and walk. Maybe if she gets a little treat for each step of putting the harness on she'll make less of a fuss over it. I dunno though I'm just guessing on all this.
I'm happy she's having less and less of her freak outs I bet as time goes by she'll get better and better it'll take some time, but it'll happen just take it one step at a time and you'll get there. =)
I'm really glad to hear that Akita's are not feared in Sweden! Maybe someday America will wise up, but I doubt it. I had a VERY hard time just getting her licensed in my small community, with my last dog, Buddy (part Akita) I had no problem getting his license. This time for Kylee I argued for over an hour & finally got it. I did find out also that if my ins company finds out that she's a purebred Akita my home owners policy will triple. This makes me insane! 2 houses down from me, she has 2 untrained German Shepard's. 3 houses down he has 5 untrained pit bulls, the pits are constantly getting out & snarling at the kids on the playground across the street. All of that seems fine to these rednecks but my Akita, whom is being trained to be a perfect lady, is a thorn in city hall's toe. I don't really care. Me & Kylee walk right past the Shepard's, pit bulls & City Hall with our collective head held high. Life may have originally given Kylee lemons but we are now on our way to making lip smacking lemonade! :-)
Ki is no akita but he isn't a small dog nor a 'normal-looking' one. I found that in cases where his breed and/or size might become an issue (for me it's renting but for you it's more insurance/vet/classes/etc) it really helped for him to have a little portfolio. I know it's too early for Kylee to have something like that since she still needs a lot of help and time to heal, but eventually it may be something that could help you. Basically Ki has a binder with records of his vet appointments/results, training, accomplishments, schedule, and even references. It's sort of like a resume. lol I use it to help prove that he is well behaved and well cared for despite his nebulous past and suspicious breed make up. It doesn't always work when there is a hard line policy working against him but it helps in situations where there is room for negotiation and trust. It has a bonus of being good reference material whenever someone has to dog-sit.
Keep up the good work! Can't wait for more Kylee spam.
What's that license you are talking about? I'm sorry butt that's something new for me
There is no hurdle I will not jump for Kylee. She is now my princess and I will fight for her at every step. My goal is for Kylee to be an ambassador for Akita's everywhere. If she can overcome her past, and I know she will, then maybe she can teach our community that to have an Akita is to have unconditional love.
amesylph, I really love the idea of a doggie "resume"! Thank you for sharing that. I will start Kylee's now. Oh what fun it will be! We never had children so this will be like making a baby book :-)
We will be spending the day training indoors. It's raining for the 2nd day in a row & the 'lil princess' does not like to get her beautiful fur coat wet. I think she's trying to train me to hold an umbrella for her while she pees :-) What a diva! I wouldn't want it any other way!
The vet you go to may be ignorant but I think he is also looking out for himself and his staff as well. Though I definitely would look for a different one with his tone of voice.
I believe I said this before, but when I am going to a new vet or training center, I ask the people on the phone how they feel about pit bulls. Unless their answers is something along the lines of "Pitties?!?!?! All our favorite clients are pit bulls!" I typically keep looking.
As far as liability, if you are afraid of being bitten, don't work with animals. PERIOD.
I'm sure that everything will work out great for Kylee now. Sue said she has the perfect vet to send us to, he's in love with Akita's, YEAH! I was beginning to think that all of America had lost their damn minds! Yesterday Kylee was in the backyard while I was gardening. The little 5 year old girl from next door came inside the fence without me seeing her. Usually she just plays with Kylee through the fence. When I looked to see what all the giggling was about, there was Kylee laying on her back all 4 legs straight up in the air licking Abbey while she layed on top of Kylee. So much for the "dangerous Akita syndrome". Off to play with my princess, just couldn't wait to share the news, Kylee will be fine!!!!
Twix doesn't bark much. She'll vocalize occasionally, but she only barks at men under 6 feet tall with dark hair. I suppose we have an image of her previous owner? She is animal aggressive. I'm not sure we'll work that out of her easily, if at all. We have decided to accept that fact and work with it. She is fearful of other dogs and expresses it aggressively. Something you might need to consider is accepting some quirks for the long term while you build relationships, then work on behavior.
(Note: I've received a lot of good advice on this forum and some members might recognize their own words in this post, thanks!)
Akitas are large, powerful, determined, strong-willed dogs. They are very loving, but very strong. I think it's important for your dog to know you will not hurt it, it should learn to trust you, but it should recognize that it is never ok to act agressively towards you.
This, of course, is my expert opinion based on my long experience with Akita's...all of 5 months...so take it for what it's worth!
One night my 13 year-old daughter was being dropped off from baby-sitting before the rest of the family made it home. She came to the back door, opened it, and went back up the steps to the fence to let the driver know she could get in the house. She said that Twix, now about 75-80 pounds, came charging up the steps, ears laid back, teeth bared, hackles raised and in a real rage...but no noise. As soon as she recognized my daughter she went all wiggly and happy to see her. Hannah said she understood what an intruder would experience and was glad Twix was on our side. No warning, just a silent rush of fangs and claws. With that in mind, it is very important to build the relationship with the dog, make sure it knows you are a caring provider and master, and that you can and will take care of problems so it doesn't have to, and most of all you need to be sure she will not be able to harm anyone else or any other animal in the wrong context. She is capable of it, and with baggage from bad experiences it will take some time and care to stabilize her.
As much as we trust and love Twix, we will never leave her alone with a child that is not part of our family, and don't often leave hear alone with our own young ones. She has nipped at them when they have been too inconsiderate of her space. She was reprimanded, but so were they. We do not leave her in a yard where she could jump the fence, and don't use any gear that she could possibly break. Plastic, nylon, etc. is out. She's still aggressive toward other animals and needs more training before I trust that she will respond to a verbal recall or distraction.
I guess the purpose of this book (sorry) is to illustrate that you can have a great dog for a long time, and you are doing a noble work, but it is work and it will be a while, and it is not without it's risks. Keep it up, find a GOOD trainer, learn from the best forums/books/videos you can find, and enjoy your new friend as you work things out. Some people will be afraid, some will be mean and rude. Be careful who you share her history with, and how you do it. Until she actually causes a problem for anybody, her background and current behavior issues are a family matter that are being handled appropriately within the family. We find it easier to take this approach than fight ignorance and misinformation. Let them know she is a good dog and you are working on training, which she is taking to very well. Don't expect anybody else to behave responsibly, expect them to NOT do so and when they do thank them. Expect off leash agressive dogs with clueless owners, expect kids to kick at the fence and dump poison over it because she's an Akita and barks at them. Expect people to pull away and protect their children from the savage beast, and others to run up and love her aggressively. Expect strangers to stop their cars and tell you about the Akita's they have had and loved. Plan for these things and when they happen you will have prepared and they won't be a problem or surprise.
Sorry if that's all too direct, but these are experiences we have had in our neighborhood, or our close friends have had with their Akita's. Good luck and keep it up!
And, Yes, I have received the very best advice on this forum! I am so thankful that I found you all! Thanks a bunch. I'm sure that at some point Kylee will say thank you too, she's just not quite ready to be polite to others :-)
Like you we have been astonished (to strong?) at how smart Twix is. She learns SO fast and is so responsive...when there is not something more interesting nearby. I'm sure we are developing some bad habits in her that we will have to work on later, but we are sure enjoying her. I guess there's all the behaviors that you admire in other people's dogs, then there is the way YOU live. For us, we need to train Twix to get along with our lifestyle and family, not to do what everybody else thinks she should. I would say that as you work with this trainer you should let her know your lifestyle and how you intend to include Kylee in it. I'm sure that will help get the right training.
I recognize we might have to change some behavior so the dog can be happy and functional also, but I think it's a compromise.
Twix has been regressing a little in regards to her behavior with other people. I don't know if she's becoming more protective of us, or if the situations are just arising more, but she has started "woofing" at people that come to visit. It's not a full on bark, but she'll vocalize and you know she's not thrilled to see them. It's ALWAYS men, 5'6'' to 5'10'' tall, with dark hair. But that's a pretty average person and she needs to be able to deal with them. I'm concerned that her vocalizing will turn in to aggression, and we really don't want that. Halloween was stressful on her with all the people approaching the house in the dark, coming inside, unfamiliar friends visiting, masks and costumes, etc. I WANT her to protect my family, I DON'T want her to be aggressive towards all strangers. I DON'T want an attack dog, I DO want a protective family member.
We FINALLY got some training classes scheduled with our preferred trainer in the area and will start next week. We'll see how it goes.
There are several ways to teach a dog to sit (moving a treat over their head is one of them), but you must be careful when it comes to pushing them into a sit. Something the obedience place I go to lectured about that if you choose to "push" a dog into a sit, do not push against the hips. Pushing on the hips is not only bad for them by putting pressure and strain on them, but when the dog is in a standing position their legs are pretty much locked in that position and can also be bad for their knees. Instead, scooping under the butt and pressing along the back of the knees with the side of your arm is a safer way to "push" them into a sit. This way, you're not putting any sort of pressure and you are breaking the lock caused by standing.
But personally, I prefer to use the treat to guide them into a sit and work towards not having to use it as a bribe.
Hmmm..... this may have nothing to do with anything, but I would watch her around the house to see if she ever sits normally on her own. Maybe something is bothering her that makes it uncomfortable to sit -- like her hips, or stifles (knees). Both of the scenarios you painted above, speak to her not wanting to sit. Even when she jumped on the couch, she stayed standing -- maybe it wasn't an effort to be "taller" than you, but again a reluctance to sit. Just shooting in the dark here, for possibilities. Too often we attribute such behavior to spite, when there might be a physical reason. I'd also watch how quickly she lays down and in particular, whether she has any difficulty getting up from a down position.
In other words, you have to practice the Come command as a separate exercise, apart from when you use it to call her in from the yard, just like you would practice the Sit and the Down or Stay.
I'm hoping that your instructor has also suggested to you to avoid as much as possible calling her 2 or 3 times and letting her ignore you -- that will establish bad habits. Better to not call at all, but go get her with the line and bring her in happily and cheerfully, under your control.
Also, today I did something that I never thought I would ever do. I purchased a muzzle. She doesn't want her toe nails clipped and they are way to long, we've been trying for days but she goes into a wild state , I did as instructed & put the leash on her with the leash under my leg so she couldn't get away. That didn't work because she started rolling like a gator and this morning when I tried again she acted like she wanted to bite my hand. I went to the store and bought a muzzle. Tonight we will clip her nails and she'll just have to put up with the muzzle for a few minutes.
I like the idea of the long lead in the back yard, I will try it. I have been letting her wander around because it's fenced in and she used to come in when called so it wasn't a problem. When she started her "I'm not listening to you anymore" thing I would call her then walk out & get her when she ignored me. Now I don't call her I just go out to her, when she see's me coming she gets up and heads for the door. I think I will try the long lead in the back yard for awhile & see if it helps. I have also put up the baby gate that I used for training my other dog 9 yrs ago. Now she is restricted to certain parts of the house only. Hubby thinks I'm being mean but I think that if I don't get this corrected now I will end up with an uncontrollable dog and that's not what I want. I know for certain that she can be a fun, lovable dog, I've seen it. We will continue to work together until we get it right.
I'm afraid to ask how the nail clipping went?
You might, at different times from when you are actually clipping, get her used to you handling her feet. Touch feet, say YES and give a treat. Rub feet, say YES and give a treat. Look between the toes, say YES and give treat. Very very brief sessions.
I think we all forget that the MAIN reason dogs hate clippers is that no matter which kind you use, either the scissor type or guillotine type, it hurts the dog a little even if you never cut into the quick, the blood vessel in the nail. Just that squeezing sensation will bother the dog, and so they remember. Forever.
If you file the nail instead, you can't hardly hurt the dog. The Dremel or electric or battery-operated drill is the fastest, but it makes noise. I use a hand-held large file or rasp available at the home improvement stores -- it's a substantial size, maybe 1/2 or 3/4 inch wide. They come with a handle and are called #6 or #8 (depending on inch length) Bastards. Yes, really. 8" mill bastards. It's a slower method but the dogs are unafraid and will just lay there flat on their sides waiting for me to finish 2 or 3 toes, give a treat, finish the foot, give a treat, do one nail on the next foot, give a treat, do the next 4 nails, etc. Randomly reinforced. You file in one direction, upwards and back, not back and forth. Just a thought, if you continue to have problems with your already adult dog.
My little Vallhund literally jumps up and down in anticipation of cookies when I bring out the file. He throws himself down on the ground on his side, feet facing me, so that I can sit on the floor and start filing. That's not to say his foot lies perfectly passive in my hand, he twitches a little, but I just continue on, giving liberal treats. He's never been hurt with a clipper and so he has nothing to fear. My Malinois was clicker-trained to lay still on his side with his head flat on the ground. He still thinks that the whole exercise has something to do with him laying still with his head on the floor. I pick up a foot, his head comes up, I wait, his head thunks to the floor and I click and treat, or now, I just treat. It's kind of funny, actually. Now I can say "Head down", he puts his head down and I do a couple more nails. NOW, at age 13.5, he just falls asleep.
I think you might need to work a little with your Akita, unless she simply submitted passively once muzzled. If so, your worries are over!
The last episode will be the last for now. I do not want to terrify her. She will be seeing the vet next week & I will ask him what we can do about her nails. It must be one of her mind demons that I know nothing about because she truly loves a good rub down including a long foot massage, something terrifies her about the nails & since I will never know what demons she is dealing with we will find a work around for it. I was hoping that our walks would help to keep her nails a little shorter but that's not the case. Her back nails are perfect length but her front nails are like talons. We've always laughed because she uses her feet more like a cat than a dog but it's not quite so funny now that she has talons :-) She does seem a bit obsessed with her feet, if we walk in the rain she has to stop every few steps to lick a foot clean, then she licks the other foot, then we continue our walk. I swear she's a laugh a minute, this drama queen of mine!
When we got her she had nice short nails. Now I have to wonder if maybe they clipped her nails while she was out during surgery to remove her collar. So the saga continues. We've called a truce regarding the nails until the Dr gives us his advice. I did get some advice about it from my "trainer" but I'm not going to be cruel to Kylee. I spoke to a man on the phone yesterday, he's from an Akita rescue, he doesn't like a lot of the things my trainer is having me do with her. He really sounds like he knows the breed very well so we're getting together next week so he can meet Kylee. Fingers crossed.
If you had a LOT of patience and a LOT of time, there are ways to fix this problem if you could find a very positive-oriented, expert clicker trainer. If they can train gorillas to stick their front arms through bars for nail grooming or to give them shots for their diabetes, you can do it for this dog too, but you'd need some direction. It entails clicking and treating when she is lying quietly, then when she is lying quietly when you have a file in your hand from 20 feet away, then 10 feet, then 5 feet, then sitting quietly next to her, then just touching her toes, etc. This could take weeks, but it IS possible, but like I said, it takes someone very well versed in clicker timing.
You may have to resort to what millions of other people do: just take her in to the vet's every so many weeks and have them do it. Or a groomer, possibly. That may be one of the concessions you'll have to make for this adopted dog whose background you don't know much about.