Advice on the next family dog.

Comments

• sukoshi_mom

  December 2009 edited November -1

  Just an observation: Before getting a larger, potential "guard dog" for your mother, you will need to consider whether she can physically handle a large dog. I frequent a dog park that has a "large dog" side. I often see very big strong men having difficulty curbing their dog's "enthusiasm" about getting to the dog park...In earlier years, I had a large male Dalmatian (70 lbs.) who, despite obedience training, tended to be a puller. He could be a handful. (And yes, he would have protected me! Dalmatians were used/bred as guard dogs.)
• JessicaRabbit

  December 2009 edited November -1

  If you are looking for a dog that will guard (I assume you mean protect) your mom, that has less to do with breed (although most Akita Inu owners I know will tell you the only thing they are guarding is the couch,American Akita may be a different story) and more to do with your mother and her level of commitment to the dog.
  
  Every dog I have ever owned would have been lousy guard dogs with regard to property. This is intentional as I never want a dog that had the potential to assault a guest in my home. I want pets. But all of my dogs would most certainly protect me if they felt I was in danger.
  
  Honestly your shiba likely would protect if she thought one of you were in imminent danger. A loving devoted owner will likely end up with a loving devoted dog, maybe not outwardly affectionate, but devoted.
  
  Gail made an excellent point that really is very very key. If you do decide on a large dog, it is imperative that the whole family is active in the training of the animal, that you use LOTS of positive reinforcement, and I would super strongly suggest having the WHOLE family attend the classes. A large dog, not thoroughly trained, regardless of breed is a huge liability. Ask the chocolate lab who was "just playing" when he dragged his owner to the ground and pit my arm so hard he broke my wrist. The dog was just playing. But the owner had no control of his dog.
  
  Maybe start meeting with breeders now. Or start visiting shelters. And see which dog you connect with. My family bred and raised GSD police dogs. I love the breed. But the most loyal devoted protective animals I have ever owned have always come out of a shelter.
• dlroberts

  December 2009 edited November -1

  Congrats on your return to grad school! I'm winding down my long stint as a graduate student right now. 6 more months to go.
  
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  I agree with all of the advice so far.
  
  Another thing I will caution you about is predatory drift. It is very rare, but it can happen. If you get a large dog you will need to be very careful about the management. Your Akita or GSD should never be left alone completely with your Shiba regardless of how well they appear to be getting along.
  
  I'll also point out that "protection" dogs have a very specific connotation in the dog world. Most protection dogs will not want anybody going near their person. This can cause problems if your mom is social and likes to interact with people on her walks. What you probably want is a dog that looks scary, but really isn't. I think most people with mal-intent will be put off at the prospect of a scary looking dog, even if that dog would probably roll over for a belly rub if they approached.
  
  In that vein, another breed you might consider is the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog. Swissy's are large, but they are really giant teddy bears. A well socialized swissy will bark at strangers (a strong deterrent from a 90-130 pound dog), but that's the extent of it. They were bred to be all-around working dogs on farms and were used to herd, haul, and guard. They are devoted family members and are extremely gentle with kids despite their size. If my friend's swissy gets annoyed by their 1 year old son, she will lick his face to get him to stop whatever he was doing. It doesn't get much sweeter than that!
• Stranger

  December 2009 edited December 2009

  My feeling is that real "guard dogs" are made, not born. Some dogs have strong guarding instincts, but for a family dog without special training, this is as likely to be a potential problem (aggressive barking, or worse behavior, towards harmless strangers, guests, etc.) as it is to afford any protection towards your family. Real guard dogs are not family pets, they are specially trained working dogs.
  
  If you just want a 'symbolic' guard dog that might deter a potential bad guy just by looking intimidating, any big dog will probably do(dlroberts beat me to it). Many other dogs might be fine as well, but a German Shepherd, or Shepherd mix might be ideal. They tend to be very affectionate and eager to please their humans. They may have strong guarding impulses, but as Jessica pointed out, this is something that the dog and family need to be trained to control, as a dog can be a poor judge of when its humans truly need protection, and a big dog can do a lot of harm with the best of intentions.
  
  I suggest investigating adult rescues, since this will allow you to get a sense of the dogs temperament and compatibility with your family before you are committed to ownership of a particular dog or breed.
• Calia

  December 2009 edited November -1

  "I think most people with mal-intent will be put off at the prospect of a scary looking dog, even if that dog would probably roll over for a belly rub if they approached."
  
  Thus why people get huskies, but wonder why their dog is helping the thief carry stuff out of the house.
• BradA1878

  December 2009 edited November -1

  There are "Guard Dogs" and "Watch Dogs". A "Guard Dog" is a man-stopper, and will engage a threat. A "Watch Dog", is a dog that will bark and put on a good display, but is not expected to engage a threat. You may want to decide which you are looking for, as they are 2 very different animals and each come with unique logistical issues.
  
  A "Guard Dog" will require a "safe place" to keep him/her when guests are over as they may not be accepting of guests. A "Guard Dog" can make an amazing companion, and be VERY good with family members, but not as good with family that may not live with you. You should not expect, or relay on, your dog's instincts to tell friend from foe, no matter the breed or what you are told. With our guardians, we yield on the "safe" side and just put them away when guests are over.
  
  As for breeds, we live with real working guardians as well as Akita Inu companions and other Nihionken.
  
  With our Akita Inu, we don't expect them to engage a threat, and I don't think they would - they may bark at an intruder, but they lack the drive to actually protect, IMHO. I think an Akita Inu would protect you from dogs, but not people - and really, Akita Inu should be friendly and accepting to strangers (and maybe a little reserved). With Akita, I do agree with what "Stranger" wrote, it will be up to the individual dog as to if they are true guardians or not and you may end up with a couch potato Akita Inu. Of our 4 Akita Inu, only Lani shows any real "guarding" ability, and only Hilo has ever actually protected (from an off-lead dog).
  
  If you wanted to stay with the same "look" of the Nihinken, a Kai Ken could be a really good fit. They are small enough to control, but heavy and strong enough to be a formidable guardian. Kai are very protective of their family, ours show a lot of the same qualities our CO show while being a lot smaller and less liability. Kai are super clean too, and if raised with a family and socialized well they will do very well. I would consider them a "Watch Dog", but know that some may have the drive to bite (or be a "Guard Dog").
  
  If you want a true "Guard Dog", a dog that will engage an intruder and protect your mother and property, but is also easy to train an AMAZING with family and kids, I would go with a Cane Corso. If you get a CC from a breeder that specializes in temperament and working qualities you will be set.
  
  A few other breeds to consider: Kishu, American Akita, Jindo, Tibetan Mastiff.
  
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• Calia

  December 2009 edited November -1

  LOL Brad, Lani was quite the little 'guardian' in WI, trying to scare off every shiba at the picnic. I'm still amazed at how responsive she was to Romi and Jen when they diverted her charging, she went from 'RAR' to wags in seconds.
• WrylyBrindle

  December 2009 edited November -1

  Swissys are super dogs, but mom may get tired of their draft-dog nature. Our best trainer has two of them who compete in obedience and do therapy visits and despite all that, they are still draft dogs and pulling is their game. You can ask them to walk loose leash, but you have to ask and be with them during, not everyone wants to keep their hand on the tiller all the time. Best to find a dog that defaults to behavior Mom finds easy to live/walk with.
  
  Troublemakers will much prefer a dogless target over a dog walker with any reasonable sized kind of dog. Lots of people find black dogs of any breed frightening, hence, unfortunately many good black mixed dogs linger in shelters when the yellows, reds and whites are adopted more quickly. And I can attest that brindle is apparently a "scary" color, regardless of how calm and not-interested-in-you/busy, thanks! the dog is behaving.
• sukoshi_mom

  December 2009 edited November -1

  Brad mentions the Jindo, a Korean breed, as a possibility. Check the discussion on Korean Jindos that I just posted for more information about the breed.
• wliu003

  December 2009 edited November -1

  Thanks everyone, I forget to mention that we plan to check the shelters as our first priority as opposed to getting one from a breeder. I used to volunteer for Humane Society and there are a lot of great dogs there.
  
  I agree with the large dog nature and how they may be difficult to control. Fortunately my mom will be very dedicated in part taking in the training as well and my sister and I. But we will be very cautious about the whole situation.
  
  Thanks for all the other recommendations, I'll be sure do read up about them.
• ShikokuSpirit

  January 2010 edited November -1

  This is a bit late coming but if you haven't decided quite yet, I'd recommend a nice stable German Shepherd for your situation.
  
  
  They are easy to train, compliant and forgiving, generally great with other animals (your Shiba isn't THAT small and GSD are (suppose to be) a medium size dog not a large dog) and to some people they look "scary". I don't think you need a dog that will actually do "live bites" on someone...this can be dangerous and is very big liability, however you can teach the dog to "bark" on command and *maybe* do "bark and hold" (like Schutzhund style) on someone ("to detain" that person), but for your situation I wouldn't teach the dog to bite.
  
  
  You will still need to socialize the dog well and introduce the dog to as many people, environments, objects, sounds and so forth.
  
  
  The only problem with GSD's is that they have a load of health issues...HD being highly common =(. And you will have to search a for GSD with a solid temperment, you don't an "aggressive" or "shy" dog, you want a dog who is very neutral, confident and comfortable. You might even want to consider a young but older pup/adolescent to be certain that health and temperment are sound. Also, since you have Kelly, I would suggest you get a male for your next family dog. The protecting instincts should naturally be there so I would worry less about that and more on the sociablity of the dog with family and guests, his health and soundness.
• wliu003

  January 2010 edited November -1

  Thanks Corina, our family won't be making a decision for at least another 6 months, we so still have plenty of time for research