That is a awesome video...I love how he's taught them the command to move aside and how the ladies dog is freaking out while his are just like whatever
Pretty cool. I wonder where this guy lives. There's no way we could do something like that here and not get ticketed for it and with that many dogs, it'd be that many citations - one for each off-leash dog!
I assume you were joking -- I DID post this under "Other Breeds."
I have no idea what they are. First thing that came to mind is lurchers, although I don't exactly know what a lurcher is. Seems like many of those dogs looked like they had some greyhound in them.
At first I assumed they were some greyhound mix . . . but I think I read Brad's post too quickly and thought he said they were a group of Nihonken. I was pretty surprised that I had never seen this type of Nihonken, plus they didn't even look like Nihonken. OK I'm a dummy, LOL.
Those are the nicest, kindest alpha rolls I have ever seen or can imagine (at :34 to :57). Still thinking about how I feel about that- he DOES roll them, but they also seem to share a great time and an undeniable joy. I guess like many tools/techniques, it depends on how its used in the context of the relationship.
Interesting website -- thanks for passing that along. I would never have guessed German Shorthair Pointer and Husky. I did see one or two though in the clip that looked like GSP. I would have expected more white from the husky cross. And I wonder what the yellowish, Lab-colored dogs were. Wish we had more information about the video.
We have sled dog races here in Montana where we get to meet the dogs while they are being vet-checked -- lots of mottley-looking Alaskan Husky types crossed with lots of things, and I've never heard the GSP mentioned as a cross -- must be the newest thing. But they all have more hair than these dogs seemed to have. There are some short-haired dogs being run here, but wasn't it the Iditarod where a couple of dogs died from exposure during the extreme cold that unfortunately hit during the race -- the ones that died were very short-coated.
The Alaskan Husky is the most motley 'breed' there is. Part of the reason they tend to be so healthy (and to live forever) is that they are, genotypically, the most diverse type of dog there is. Since they're bred for working ability and no one cares if they're ugly, they've got it going on genetically. This video was awesome. It cracks me up that the one lady's dog was so crazy and all the working dogs are just so cool with it. GSP is super common to mix in with sled dogs. Has something to do with keeping working drive while losing the independent streak that made other dogs so hard to work with. That's what I've gathered, anyway.
Huh....must be sled dogs in a warm climate; like Montanadoglover said, they are pretty short-coated. I know people in Alaska, where I grew up, cross huskies with hounds/etc for the ability to run, but they sure couldn't be sled dogs in Alaska with coats like that. I gotta admit I find it pretty hard to believe those are sled dogs. Couldn't keep those dogs outside in any place with a serious winter.
And when I look at the size of the trees there, it sure doesn't look like a place you'd get much sledding done.
I think we should just breed Shikonois and Malikoku, you'll get a dog with working ability & speed, a dog that should be able to handle both cold & hot climates and a fashionably adorable dog =].
In regards to the mixing of the GSP with huskies, I think the GSP is used due to their endurance and their gate, their gate is unique. Sighthounds, like the greyhound, are rarely used as/mixed with sled dogs due to their gate. They have what is called a "double flight" gate where they leave the ground by punishing off with their back feet and landing on their front feet. This means at one point all their feet are off the ground. A sled good dog should always have, at least, one foot on the ground. Dogs that brake this gate are called "floaters" and are usually culled. A GSP doesn't "float" like a Sighthound does but still has a substantial amount of stamina/endurance. In sled dogs gate and endurance is king NOT speed.
In sled dogs, the dogs that are mixed with non-Nordic breeds (like the GSP or ESP) are called "Lombard dogs" or "Belford dogs" - named after some famous mushers/drivers from the 70s who really kicked off the mixed-breed sled teams.
The Alaskan Husky was started as a mixed breed working dog and could have any number of Nordic breeds at their base. Today they are more standardized, but in the 60s and 70s they were really all over the place genetically - even mixing in some Arctic Wolf blood due to the unique fact that they do not sweat from their feet - which is what commonly causes ice balls to form on the pads/hair of sled dogs and can create problems (pain) for them.
The most interesting thing to me about sled dogs is that they run in a group on their own free will, they are not forced or trained to pull weight in a "pack" of dogs, nor do they gain anything from running in a "pack" (unlike the wolf, who "packs" together for hunting). So, you have a working breed that via selective breeding for a specific work LOVES to run in a "pack" for no other reason than to run in a "pack". In sledding there is no "abusive" training you find in other working dogs, you cannot force a dog to run in a "pack" and pull weight - they have to want to run in a "pack" and pull. If you force them to do their work you run the rick of pressuring the dog too far and creating a quitter. A quitter could mean death while on a trail in the back country.
I've often wondered if is why there is such a high number of "fear biting" Huskies, as Huskies do not take pressure well since, via their working selection, they were never selected to take pressure the way, say, a GSD was (GSD are rather hard dogs - they can take a LOT of pressure from their owners).
Also, since sled dogs had to work in a team, they were selected for tolerance and social aptitude (in other words aggressive dogs were culled). So, this makes them typically very social with other dogs.
Its very interesting to me how certain FAPs have been altered in dogs to create the working breeds we know now. How selecting for one thing, like for example a dog that works in a group with no training, can lead to a dog that doesn't take pressure well when used in a totally different role. It's super interesting to me.
Ok, that's the end of my random Sled dog lecture. )
Interesting points, Brad, about the sled dogs. I didn't know about the gait, which is really fascinating.
Of course, I think we may talking about sprint dogs.....Not that cargo dogs are so popular anymore, but they were mixed with much bigger dogs so they could pull better (more malemute than husky, for example, and the Mackenzie River huskies are more like malemutes than Siberians as far as I recall and were more bred for strength rather than speed).
My expereinces with sled dogs bears some of this out....Some mushers cull their teams by sending dogs that don't work out to the animal shelter (rather than killing them themselves) and these dogs end up adopted...and are often difficult dogs to deal with as companion dogs. They tend to be super timid with people, though they get along with other dogs, usually. They do still have a high prey drive. Social aptitude with dogs, yes, but not with people. fear biting is a problem--dog bites are highest in Alaska from husky mixes (like sled dogs). Not well socialized usually, but wouldn't a dog like this need to take more comfort from being in the company of other dogs rather than in the company of people? So I wonder if breeding ends up selecting for good qualities for a team, but bad qualities for a companion dog?
Yes, the dogs want to run...no doubt about that. But there is, unfortunately, plenty of abusive training in mushers. Some think dogs run better hungry so they don't feed them enough, and all sorts of crazy bs like that (one of my friends was mauled and nearly died as a kid when she stumbled into a dog lot of one of the mushers that believed hungry unsocialized dogs run better). Good mushers don't do it, of course, but there are plenty that do.
"Of course, I think we may talking about sprint dogs....." >> I think gate is equally important in cargo dogs as it is sprinters. It's not the speed of the dogs that moves the sled quickly, its the synchronized gate, properly matched pairings (of the dogs) and overall endurance. Remember, each dog in a 6 - 12 dog sled team pulls 85% of the weight of the sled at any given time. It's not equally divided as many think it is, so very fast dogs do not add any speed to the team while high endurance and strength in a medium sized package (efficiency) moves the sled at a steady and constant pace.
"Not well socialized usually, but wouldn't a dog like this need to take more comfort from being in the company of other dogs rather than in the company of people? So I wonder if breeding ends up selecting for good qualities for a team, but bad qualities for a companion dog?" >> Sure, I think that's probably an accurate assessment.
"Yes, the dogs want to run...no doubt about that. But there is, unfortunately, plenty of abusive training in mushers. Some think dogs run better hungry so they don't feed them enough, and all sorts of crazy bs like that (one of my friends was mauled and nearly died as a kid when she stumbled into a dog lot of one of the mushers that believed hungry unsocialized dogs run better). Good mushers don't do it, of course, but there are plenty that do." >> While I would never adopt this mindset or practice these techniques, none of them are really examples of training, these are examples of husbandry.
Comments
I assume you were joking -- I DID post this under "Other Breeds."
I have no idea what they are. First thing that came to mind is lurchers, although I don't exactly know what a lurcher is. Seems like many of those dogs looked like they had some greyhound in them.
I think they're mostly husky/pointer crosses. Course people could very well be adding in greyhounds and the like for more speed?
We have sled dog races here in Montana where we get to meet the dogs while they are being vet-checked -- lots of mottley-looking Alaskan Husky types crossed with lots of things, and I've never heard the GSP mentioned as a cross -- must be the newest thing. But they all have more hair than these dogs seemed to have. There are some short-haired dogs being run here, but wasn't it the Iditarod where a couple of dogs died from exposure during the extreme cold that unfortunately hit during the race -- the ones that died were very short-coated.
And when I look at the size of the trees there, it sure doesn't look like a place you'd get much sledding done.
Cool video though.
LOL ~
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In regards to the mixing of the GSP with huskies, I think the GSP is used due to their endurance and their gate, their gate is unique. Sighthounds, like the greyhound, are rarely used as/mixed with sled dogs due to their gate. They have what is called a "double flight" gate where they leave the ground by punishing off with their back feet and landing on their front feet. This means at one point all their feet are off the ground. A sled good dog should always have, at least, one foot on the ground. Dogs that brake this gate are called "floaters" and are usually culled. A GSP doesn't "float" like a Sighthound does but still has a substantial amount of stamina/endurance. In sled dogs gate and endurance is king NOT speed.
In sled dogs, the dogs that are mixed with non-Nordic breeds (like the GSP or ESP) are called "Lombard dogs" or "Belford dogs" - named after some famous mushers/drivers from the 70s who really kicked off the mixed-breed sled teams.
The Alaskan Husky was started as a mixed breed working dog and could have any number of Nordic breeds at their base. Today they are more standardized, but in the 60s and 70s they were really all over the place genetically - even mixing in some Arctic Wolf blood due to the unique fact that they do not sweat from their feet - which is what commonly causes ice balls to form on the pads/hair of sled dogs and can create problems (pain) for them.
The most interesting thing to me about sled dogs is that they run in a group on their own free will, they are not forced or trained to pull weight in a "pack" of dogs, nor do they gain anything from running in a "pack" (unlike the wolf, who "packs" together for hunting). So, you have a working breed that via selective breeding for a specific work LOVES to run in a "pack" for no other reason than to run in a "pack". In sledding there is no "abusive" training you find in other working dogs, you cannot force a dog to run in a "pack" and pull weight - they have to want to run in a "pack" and pull. If you force them to do their work you run the rick of pressuring the dog too far and creating a quitter. A quitter could mean death while on a trail in the back country.
I've often wondered if is why there is such a high number of "fear biting" Huskies, as Huskies do not take pressure well since, via their working selection, they were never selected to take pressure the way, say, a GSD was (GSD are rather hard dogs - they can take a LOT of pressure from their owners).
Also, since sled dogs had to work in a team, they were selected for tolerance and social aptitude (in other words aggressive dogs were culled). So, this makes them typically very social with other dogs.
Its very interesting to me how certain FAPs have been altered in dogs to create the working breeds we know now. How selecting for one thing, like for example a dog that works in a group with no training, can lead to a dog that doesn't take pressure well when used in a totally different role. It's super interesting to me.
Ok, that's the end of my random Sled dog lecture.
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Of course, I think we may talking about sprint dogs.....Not that cargo dogs are so popular anymore, but they were mixed with much bigger dogs so they could pull better (more malemute than husky, for example, and the Mackenzie River huskies are more like malemutes than Siberians as far as I recall and were more bred for strength rather than speed).
My expereinces with sled dogs bears some of this out....Some mushers cull their teams by sending dogs that don't work out to the animal shelter (rather than killing them themselves) and these dogs end up adopted...and are often difficult dogs to deal with as companion dogs. They tend to be super timid with people, though they get along with other dogs, usually. They do still have a high prey drive. Social aptitude with dogs, yes, but not with people. fear biting is a problem--dog bites are highest in Alaska from husky mixes (like sled dogs). Not well socialized usually, but wouldn't a dog like this need to take more comfort from being in the company of other dogs rather than in the company of people? So I wonder if breeding ends up selecting for good qualities for a team, but bad qualities for a companion dog?
Yes, the dogs want to run...no doubt about that. But there is, unfortunately, plenty of abusive training in mushers. Some think dogs run better hungry so they don't feed them enough, and all sorts of crazy bs like that (one of my friends was mauled and nearly died as a kid when she stumbled into a dog lot of one of the mushers that believed hungry unsocialized dogs run better). Good mushers don't do it, of course, but there are plenty that do.
>> I think gate is equally important in cargo dogs as it is sprinters. It's not the speed of the dogs that moves the sled quickly, its the synchronized gate, properly matched pairings (of the dogs) and overall endurance. Remember, each dog in a 6 - 12 dog sled team pulls 85% of the weight of the sled at any given time. It's not equally divided as many think it is, so very fast dogs do not add any speed to the team while high endurance and strength in a medium sized package (efficiency) moves the sled at a steady and constant pace.
"Not well socialized usually, but wouldn't a dog like this need to take more comfort from being in the company of other dogs rather than in the company of people? So I wonder if breeding ends up selecting for good qualities for a team, but bad qualities for a companion dog?"
>> Sure, I think that's probably an accurate assessment.
"Yes, the dogs want to run...no doubt about that. But there is, unfortunately, plenty of abusive training in mushers. Some think dogs run better hungry so they don't feed them enough, and all sorts of crazy bs like that (one of my friends was mauled and nearly died as a kid when she stumbled into a dog lot of one of the mushers that believed hungry unsocialized dogs run better). Good mushers don't do it, of course, but there are plenty that do."
>> While I would never adopt this mindset or practice these techniques, none of them are really examples of training, these are examples of husbandry.
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