The Neapolitan Mastiff: Love'em or Hate'em?
I dunno why, but the past few months I have been mildly obsessed with Neos. Just looking at them and reading about them.
It started while I was doing some research on Blue's ancestry, you know the breeds (CC and Neos) were basically the same. The base gene pool was the same but they bred some dogs for general farm work (the CC) and others for strict guardian, man-stopper, and war roles (the Neo).
The Neo was used for all the "dirty work", fighting/killing man and beast, protecting property and family - like junkyard dogs. To me they are a very "dark" breed, and I actually find them to be rather ugly. I think I like about 1% of the neos I see, but the ones I like I really like. I think the "darkness" of the breed and the repulsiveness I feel toward the look (and drool) is what kinda draws me to them.
Blue is very loving and really soft, his skin makes him very cuddly. JJ was like velvet, her coat was perfect... So when I see a Neo I kinda think about how snugly they would be too. LOL
Here is a Neo I like the look of:
http://www.undergroundmastino.com/e107_plugins/coppermine_menu/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSC01450.jpg
Here's a few females, you can see them move...
So, what do you guys think? Do you love them or hate them?
Just wondering, thought it may make a good discussion.
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It started while I was doing some research on Blue's ancestry, you know the breeds (CC and Neos) were basically the same. The base gene pool was the same but they bred some dogs for general farm work (the CC) and others for strict guardian, man-stopper, and war roles (the Neo).
The Neo was used for all the "dirty work", fighting/killing man and beast, protecting property and family - like junkyard dogs. To me they are a very "dark" breed, and I actually find them to be rather ugly. I think I like about 1% of the neos I see, but the ones I like I really like. I think the "darkness" of the breed and the repulsiveness I feel toward the look (and drool) is what kinda draws me to them.
Blue is very loving and really soft, his skin makes him very cuddly. JJ was like velvet, her coat was perfect... So when I see a Neo I kinda think about how snugly they would be too. LOL
Here is a Neo I like the look of:
http://www.undergroundmastino.com/e107_plugins/coppermine_menu/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSC01450.jpg
Here's a few females, you can see them move...
So, what do you guys think? Do you love them or hate them?
Just wondering, thought it may make a good discussion.
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Comments
I'd rather have a CC
ETA: Kind of looks like someone took a CC & bred it to an Elephant. haha~
Mastiffs in general have dark histories, they were man killers, war dogs, bred to take down huge opponents. And yet every single mastiff I have ever met has been a gummy bear.
I really like the neo's they use in the Harry Potter movies...
ETA: nvm...it's Fang huh? I never knew what he was. ~
What I don't understand is the use of all that skin when it comes to their job, I can see that as getting in the way and easy to snag on sharp objects (such as an attacker's knife).
Jay and I agree, we don't want to, but we love them.
I'm afraid I just can't see the appeal. And the drool! I can't deal with it! They are on my list of dogs I'd never own.
http://images02.olx.in/ui/1/33/39/13682439_1.jpg
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Jess has it right, the loose skin helps in fights, but the loose skin also causes issues in protection work as many of them bite through their lips when they take a bite.
The Neos of old were not as wrinkly, the show ring has really made them hyper-type, but the old-world Neos did have loose skin too...
http://www.molossoitaliano.it/Corso/canistorici/mastino_napoletano_Astra_GrottaAzzurraGiorgioMira1976.jpg
http://www.molossoitaliano.it/Corso/canistorici/mastino_napoletano_Astra_GrottaAzzurraGiorgioMiralt1976.jpg
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Here is their close Asian cousin, the Korean Dosa (also bred for fighting)...
http://www.masterdomainkennels.com/ghgh.jpg
Did you think there could be an even uglier dog than the Neo? LOL
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These dogs have been used in war for many centuries and helped guard the entrances to the caves underneath Vesuvio and Pompeii where my grandmother hid from the Nazis. They are our protectors and warriors.
And yes, the Dosa is uglier, hard to believe!
However, I am NOT a fan of the loose skin and DEFINITELY not a fan of the drool.
But, the history of this breed is pretty interesting. And while I would never own one, I definitely would like to learn more about them.
And OMG... That Dosa... YIKES! I want to iron him.
-name: In Korean language, dosa is the same as tosa. Same Korean characters. The difference in English spelling is due to how Westerners Romanize the name from Korean to English vs. Japanese to English. For example, some Koreans, without knowing English formal names would spell out "Akida" instead of "Akita", but of course, the Japanese version has precedent.
-the dogs: Koreans differentiate the fighting d/tosa from the "beauty" d/tosa not by the name (because they're the same word), but by an adjective. Tookyun d/tosa is the fighting version. MeeKyun d/tosa is the above "pretty" version. You'll see both in Korea. I've seen pics of a wrinkly, red tosa, similar to the meekyun version, in pictures from Japan. So focusing on name (ie. dosa= Korean origin; tosa= Japanese origin) is misleading.
-history: It's a bunch of BS. Neo origin is implasible to me. The newer Dogue de Bordeux (sp? French Mastiff) story is also implasible to me. Wrong color genes. The meekyun d/tosa is most likely from the Japanese fighting dog and just bred to extremes.
-popularity in Korea: They're not that popular in Korea. Most Koreans aren't fans of big dogs. When people claim the Meekyun d/tosa is the most popular dog in Korea, that's just not right. Maybe among giant dogs, but not among all dogs.
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That's a lot of lip on that dog- laces and folds. The word "maw" comes to mind. I LOVE dog kisses, but I'm thinking no thanks.
Like the CC much better.
There are breeds that are WAY LESS hyper-type than the Neo with WAY MORE health issues than the Neo out there (look at the GSD). I'd also argue that 99% of all dog breeds wouldn't exist "in nature". There is really nothing "natural" about dog breeds, at this point they've been altered by man for 100s (and in some cases 1000s) of years.
Many of the breeds I read/hear people touting as "more natural" or "less domesticated" are the same breeds that have been selected specifically to look like a wolf. At least in the case of a Neo their grossly exploited loose skin served a purpose at one time, obviously the loose skin has been taken to an extreme now, but at least its an exploit of a feature that had a working purpose.
I used to feel the same way about Neos, but then I realized something...
It seems contradictory to be uncomfortable with a breed like the Neo, and call it unnatural, but then feel totally comfortable showing enthusiasm over a breed like the Shikoku or Akita who have very clearly been selected to look a specific way for no other reason than the look. I've noticed this on other forums too. Really, do you think the Akita would exist "in nature"? ... or even a KBD - how many black & white wild canine do you see?
Where I think is a non-hypocritical place to draw the line is the breeds that cannot whelp on their own, that, to me, IMHO, is crossing some line somewhere - but that may be totally hypocritical of me.
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Any dog that can run and play and have fun (and breath, thermoregulate and whelp) without endangering itself, and is not notably prone to painful and debilitating genetic diseases is more or less OK with me, but you asked about liking or not liking the Neo so I mentioned what I found specifically unappealing about them.
I was not actually picking on your specific post, so I'm sorry if it came off that way (I'm very sleepy so maybe I am not writing very well today).
I was really just remembering back to how I felt about Neos before my mild obsession, and how I felt that they were "unnatural"... Then I realized that it was somewhat contributory of me to call one man-made breed unnatural, when I should have really been seeing the whole picture - that all man-made breeds are unnatural. Perhaps I was projecting and thinking you were saying the same thing I had thought in the past.
Anyway, I agree, when a dog starts biting through its own lips while preforming its main function... Then, yea, that's a FAIL. IMHO. I guess that is a great example of the collision of the show ring goals with those of a dog's working origin.
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On a side note, don't dogs with a lot of wrinkles have a lot of skin problems? I hadn't thought of ticks (*shudder*) because I don't have to deal with them that often here, but yes, that seems a problem in certain places too.
A lot of the histories on the Tosa Ken on the web makes it sound like the mixings were done with great deliberation, mixing to so-and-so at this particular year, and then the breed was set. That's not what I hear. Grandfathering was done through the Tosa Ken's history by individuals. It still happens to this day though not very often as it brought back dogs that are vocal during fights and are immediately disqualified.
It may be that when the Tosa Ken arrived in Korea, the grandfathering continued in Japan but not Korea, or that different grandfatherings occured in the two countries, but the fighting dogs in Korea and Japan are still the same breed type. (I consider the fighting Tosa to be in the vein of a breed type and not a breed, similar to how Alaskan huskies are a breed type and not a breed.)
As for the Tosa Ken that ended up in non-dog fighting hands, looks started to be emphasized. Tawny red color+moderate wrinkles in Japan and Europe, deep red color+excessive wrinkles in Korea.
Check out this conformation Tosa Ken which is on the path of becoming like the neo. It's an easy path to slide down.