Softening a "Hard Mouth"?
Need some advice on this training issue...
Tai (Kai Ken) has a VERY hard mouth, he kinda hurts. He seems to have learned bite inhibition fine with the dogs, but he's not getting it with us. This is something I don't remember dealing with in the past (tho Jen says Ahi' had a very hard mouth too - I don't remember that tho), so I'm not sure how to taring Tai to be softer with his mouth. The old "YELP!" when he bites hard technique isn't working.
Any ideas?
----
Tai (Kai Ken) has a VERY hard mouth, he kinda hurts. He seems to have learned bite inhibition fine with the dogs, but he's not getting it with us. This is something I don't remember dealing with in the past (tho Jen says Ahi' had a very hard mouth too - I don't remember that tho), so I'm not sure how to taring Tai to be softer with his mouth. The old "YELP!" when he bites hard technique isn't working.
Any ideas?
----
Comments
Maymay kicked my butt for the first 3 weeks. She just gets so excited that someone is paying attention to her that she would mouth me. With Maymay the worst thing I could do was not pay attention to her and turn my back. She hates it when she's not all over someone. She got the point, but it took me constantly turning my back.
My neighbor's 12 week old Malinois is such a mouther! He is all scratched up, and Brock has gotten me a few times really bad too. He comes to my house a lot to play with Koda since his shots aren't all done with. I tried squealing, yelling, crying, ignoring and nothing! He would just turn the other way and play with Koda. Yesterday, I removed him from being able to play with Koda if he mouthed me. I put Koda on the couch (and blocked him from getting up there). Once I took a prized resource away he started getting it. Mouth humans and no more Koda. It will take some time, but it's the first thing in four weeks that has worked.
What does Tai value?
We also worked on teaching both our boys to give "kisses" when asked, as the act of licking seemed to calm them and kind of break up that rush of excitement. It also gave them a more acceptable way of getting satisfaction through use of their mouth. Hid the treat in a hand and when they licked, they got it. When they understood it, we transitioned it to play. Started out with non-contact games (like fetch) and would ask for "kisses" before throwing the ball. If the nipped, the ball does not get thrown and we turn away, but when they lick the ball gets thrown. We upped it to tug and added in the "eh-eh" when they would nip, follow it with asking for "kisses" and praise when they licked. We now can wrestle with Tikaani (Tetsu doesn't care for wrestling), as we intermittently move an arm in front of his muzzle and ask for "kisses" when we feel that he is starting to get too excited. He'd lick, and we'd continue to praise him for as long as he licks.
Hope this helps give you some ideas
I've heard of putting a little butter or veg. oil on your hand or arm. The dog will "lick it" not "mouth it" then you praise & reward. And a strong leave it command when they start to mouth too heavy.I 've never tried it but it but it sounds logical.
Maybe you could start teaching a "leave it" and/or "off" command and also a release command to use with fetch. You can then move on to a controlled tug to practice taking it "take" and releasing it "drop it" and then giving item back to dog. Also teaching the dog to move away from you to an object or targeting also helps. Once he understands an off command you can add in "gentle" so the dog gets the point to hesitate when going for a treat or object.
Teaching to lick can work but it also can be annoying later if it becomes conditioned. Sometimes if displaced it can be a ocd type thing when someone wants to pet your dog. It depends on the animal how far it will go. I'd rather condition the dog to kiss an object, say a toy or spoon etc. Clicker is a good idea to build on the different tasks you want him to learn to do in progression.
Snf
I like the idea of using the tug. I am not a fan of being licked (at all), so I would never want to reinforce "kisses". (I'm allergic to dog saliva)
This is just one of many issues Tai has with food, he needs work on impulse control and food possession as well, but I plan to work each one separately and then chain them. I'm used to food possession and impulse issues, but the hard mouth thing is new - I mean I have had dogs bite a bit harder than I liked and was able to alter that behavior, but Tai's bite is REALLY hard.
Thanks!
----
What has worked with my rescue pups in the past is offering treats in your fist so that they start by licking your hand (sorry Brad, maybe pop a benedryl...) when the initial enthusiasm wears off (I know in my dogs case the hard mouth tends to be hand in hand with impulse control) and pup is more aware and less "oh boy treat" I will offer the treat saying "gentle" if teeth make contact I do not let go of the treat and we try again, until take it nicely. It takes som e patience and some tough fingers, but it has worked with all my dogs and most of the shelter pups too.
I've been dealing with Joey having a hard mouth when it comes to treats. He's very soft with toys for the most part and even softer when it comes to playing mouthing games with my hands (I know, I shouldn't encourage it, but I find it fun :-/).
I've had a lot of success by focusing on his impulse control. The calmer I can get him in those last few seconds before taking a treat, the less intensity he bites with and the softer it is. I'm not allergic to dog saliva like Brad is, but I prefer not to have my hands licked. So my training with Joey started by making sure he waits patiently for me to extend a treat to him, rather than him lunging/jumping/reaching for a treat in my hand. I started this by putting him in a sit and then slowly lowering a treat from my chest height toward his mouth. The instant he jumped/reached/lunged for it, I would pull it away say "no", and ask him to sit again. We practiced this for a few days until he got good at waiting for the treat to get within reach of his mouth. He would wait until it got close and then still chomp pretty hard. So for the next step, I'd get the treat close and only release it to him if he used his "soft" mouth. If he made a harder move to grab the treat, I'd pull away and say "eeeeeaaaaasssyyy" in a low and slow voice, then slowly offer it to him again.
It took probably two solid weeks of work to get to the point where Joey doesn't need reminding every time I hand him a treat. If he does forget and gets a bit overzealous, a low and slow "eeeeeaaaaaassssyyyy" will be all he needs to soften up his bite.
I'm not sure if this transfers directly to your situation or not Brad, but hopefully you'll find it helpful!
I'm use to playing rough but sometimes it REALLY hurts when they bite and then I get angry and yell, "NO!" and again I shove something in his mouth. I encourage the pup to go for the toy and not my hand. Repetition, repetition, repetition...some pups are very persistent, I just keeping saying, "NO!" and back to the shoving toy in mouth as many as times as this takes (I can be pretty persistent too =p), "You can bite as hard as you wish on your toy! If you continue to bite me so hard, I'm not playing with you. I'll play with you when you decide be gentle."
For those really hard-headed pups, playtime is now over and your can sit in your crate for "time-out". Generally...after awhile, they "get it" but sometimes this take some time. You have to be persistent, consistent and patient.