confronting a barking dog while walking yours
posted in in my intro, but really doesn't apply there....
....................................................................................
regarding the comment made while discussing my intro :
"We've been frustrated in the past by the suggestions made to us by trainers and books which all sounds great, but when applied in real life starts to fall apart due to lack of (total) control over the environment."
-- VERY good point, and even tho i generally don't like to discuss hypothetical situations, here's a common real world example that WILL happen to just about everybody who walks a dog that imo does give you "some" control over the environment, that i always try and turn into a training opportunity whenever i encounter it :
- but if you feel there is no training opportunity here by all means feel free to disagree
- and please state WHY you do or don't do something....not just the "what" side
- since the Q applies to most types of dogs, hopefully there will be a few responses and if you use a clicker please state how
situation :
...you're walking your dog past "the house" that has a backyard bully who fires out and guards his gate/fence or whatever ... whenever another dog passes by
for the dog aggressive owner ... you have a dog that lunges and barks at other dogs...(whether or not it would fight/bite if given the chance is irrelevant at this point btw)
Q1 - how do you normally deal with it ?
be honest and specific with your response, and not "hypothetical" about what you "would do" if it happened, and of course i'd also like to hear if the encounters help or hinder your dog's progress
for all others...your dog can handle this situation with little or no reaction
Q2 - how do you handle the same situation ?
i have a pretty "set" procedure for this situation and i will throw in my 02yen about how i try and apply OC and canine behavior in this situation for any type of dog i might be with, but i am very interested to hear about others experiences and viewpoints as well. i certainly didn't invent the wheel so it's quite possible a lot of you will react the same way i do; that's why i'm interested in your thought process and why you do what you do and see if it's for the same reasons i do it.
....................................................................................
regarding the comment made while discussing my intro :
"We've been frustrated in the past by the suggestions made to us by trainers and books which all sounds great, but when applied in real life starts to fall apart due to lack of (total) control over the environment."
-- VERY good point, and even tho i generally don't like to discuss hypothetical situations, here's a common real world example that WILL happen to just about everybody who walks a dog that imo does give you "some" control over the environment, that i always try and turn into a training opportunity whenever i encounter it :
- but if you feel there is no training opportunity here by all means feel free to disagree
- and please state WHY you do or don't do something....not just the "what" side
- since the Q applies to most types of dogs, hopefully there will be a few responses and if you use a clicker please state how
situation :
...you're walking your dog past "the house" that has a backyard bully who fires out and guards his gate/fence or whatever ... whenever another dog passes by
for the dog aggressive owner ... you have a dog that lunges and barks at other dogs...(whether or not it would fight/bite if given the chance is irrelevant at this point btw)
Q1 - how do you normally deal with it ?
be honest and specific with your response, and not "hypothetical" about what you "would do" if it happened, and of course i'd also like to hear if the encounters help or hinder your dog's progress
for all others...your dog can handle this situation with little or no reaction
Q2 - how do you handle the same situation ?
i have a pretty "set" procedure for this situation and i will throw in my 02yen about how i try and apply OC and canine behavior in this situation for any type of dog i might be with, but i am very interested to hear about others experiences and viewpoints as well. i certainly didn't invent the wheel so it's quite possible a lot of you will react the same way i do; that's why i'm interested in your thought process and why you do what you do and see if it's for the same reasons i do it.
Comments
My lab Hana on the other hand did a little barking back when we first went on walks. I would diver her attention away and treat her. So after a few sessions of that she got the point and quit paying attention to the barking dog. But now she expects a damn treat every time we walk past the house. Freak'n labs!
It's when there are new and strange dogs barking or running by that London gets upset. A strange or aggressive dog barking or lunging puts London on defense-mode. His tail usually drops, he starts a low warning growl, and if I don't intervene, he'll try to face off with the dog even if they can't get to one another. I don't let this situation get past the warning growl stage, and try to get him before the warning growl (but it happens too quickly, if I'm not aware of the other dog's attitude before it all starts... I usually can't get him before the growl). Anyway, how I handle the situation is - in most cases - by grabbing the lead near to London's collar and changing directions. If the barking dog is in an enclosure or somewhere controlled and I'm walking by, after I've gotten London to sit and pay attention to me instead of the noise, we'll try again. If he does anything more than his short, gruff growl (such as snarl or look at the dog or bark back, etc), I'll make him do it all over again. I'll permit the growling as long as he's looking ahead, where we're walking.
Russell (my mix) doesn't cause any problems while passing barking or aggressive dogs. The only thing he'll sometimes do instead of walking straight ahead is look at me or look at my boyfriend for some kind of reaction, I guess.
Ha, I see I've explained the "what" but not the why. Well, I'm trying to redirect his attention, get him focused on me and on doing something he knows well, before we continue our walk.
Mostly, though, I'm interested in hearing what other people do....
With Koda it was all about having a "social" dog. A dog that felt comfortable going up to people and other dogs. Don't get me wrong, Koda is the most well-behaved dog. He is never over the top, and is always complimented on his manners and how good he is, so going up to other dogs and people when wanted was never a problem.
Then I had to prepare him for the CGC test. Now I was asking him to completely ignore any other dog at a year old. Well we did it, no problem. He catches on pretty quickly with what I want without a reward based system (I find it easier to train Koda without treats as rewards).
Anywho, now when I want him to ignore another dog I say "CGC". This means that he's supposed to act anti-social and ignore the other dog.
my 02 yen...
first altho i'm not into training another persons dog for free i do apply some OC to the dog behind the gate when i work with my dog i'm out with
obvious why they are barking is certainly not out of protection since there is not threat....they are resource guarding and will never stop since they are continually reinforced by every passing dog and owner they chase off. so my first step is to stop with my dog and pay no attention to mrBark.
- this usually escalates the guarding....i'm fine with that :-)
- i stay on public property and away from the barrier
- i will give no EC to mrBark but i will look in his direction from time to time
- if i'm with a non reactive dog it's simply party time for us and an easy day, but lots of great training ops since we may be there awhile
- i will start "playing" with my dog : simple sits, lots of downs(since that relaxes meBark), 5-6 ft recalls on lead, "look" or "watch" drills for improving EC , tug play, sits with treat tosses a few feet away, toss/catch treats in the mouth....in short, anything and everything we like to do and can do, at a distance from the gate but clearly in view, without paying ANY attention to mrBark, and as soon as the punk shuts up i will look at him and maybe even toss him a treat and we close the distance a bit ...most guarders can't keep it up too long; they all give up sooner or later :-)
- if the owner happens to come out which sometimes happens, i try and start talking first :-) i enthusiastically reassure them their beautiful dog is NO problem and doesn't bother us since we are just out for a walk and some mini training drills.....often the owner will ask if they should take the dog away and of course i emphatically say please don't, and then ask what the dogs name is and act like it's the most beautiful dog i've ever seen and am very interested.....the owner may also shout at the dog to shut up which usually doesn't work and then i will ask if it's ok if they just go back in and let the dog be as it is for awhile
- best if you can just get the owner to go back inside :-)
- but the longer it takes the more mrBark learns we aren't moving and we don't care about his problem and when he has been watching my dog EAT and have a good time he will often want his share of the action :-)
- by now most have shut up unless they are real psycho from being tied out or encouraged by weird owners. MANY will calm down pretty darn quick and will even take treats from me which allows me and my good dog more training ops at closer range
- in my experience, 20 min would be a LONG time to wait before silence hits and the barks change to curiosity and interest
- result : i've helped a dog that wasn't mine and really had a blast and improved the confidence of the dog i'm with as a result of this distraction proofing....WIN=WIN as i see it and well worth our time. the more time we get the better, and more importantly, the environment was under MY control at all times and WAY way better than a dog park where it isn't
- different home owners react differently but if you prepare in advance, have basic social skills and can think on your feet you can always stay one step ahead of them and keep the conversation on your friendly terms
- on VERY rare occasions when an idiot owner will ask us to leave since we are "bothering" their fluffball, i will calmly let them know we are on public property and if they feel threatened in any way, they should call and request the police to investigate the disturbance.....if they would do that be careful; they might be on drugs; never happened to me but would sure like to have the cops come and meet my dog under those situations :-)
- if you do this every time you pass mrBark, he may still try and fend off other dogs, but he will quickly learn it has no effect on you and your dog and learn (operantly) to lose interest in repeating the tirades every time you go past, especially as the treats fly over HIS gate.... only well trained protection dogs have been proofed on food refusal, and a dog can't bark and eat at the same time :-)
- otoh, be stuck up and treat him like an irresponsible out of control idiot mutt that doesn't measure up to your special dog and pass on this opportunity and you gain nothing or very little for either dog
- anyway, for me, it seems like those of you with well behaved dogs might get even more benefits by my extended "stop and play "techniques rather just make it a short lived fly by
for the reactive dog owners....
...gimme a break this was long enuff :-) ... i'll get there but would like to hear from you too on what you do or don't do AND why
Conker is pretty good with dogs behind fences now. He will look at them then keep going and occasionally pick up the pace then slow down once we get past them.
He was attacked by a pack of off-leash Pomeranians when he was younger and because of that he doesn't like dogs rushing him. I wasn't necessarily training him to not react to a fence-barker as much as ignore being rushed by a dog behind a fence.
@tjbart17 Anyone who can train a Nihon Ken without strangling it like Cesar I'd watch religiously XD
...silent bunnies darting across front yards are an entirely separate issue though.
"obvious why they are barking is certainly not out of protection since there is not threat....they are resource guarding and will never stop since they are continually reinforced by every passing dog and owner they chase off."
What's the difference between resource guarding and protection?
----
Nothing......
Nothing......"
i'll assume you left out the smiley and this comment was a joke...if not state why you think it is the same, since there may be some people who will read this statement and actually believe it..... i have trained the OG for many protection dogs.....since it requires the dog to think independently from the handler it is one of the most difficult behaviors to train, but you are saying "fluffy", who will snap at anyone who comes close to her owner is doing the same thing without ANY previous formal training ??? you've got to get serious sometimes !!
----
If I'm walking and Rakka gets agitated by another dog, I use often something to block the view of that other dog (or anything else that is causing agitation). Parked cars work well, or signs or bushes or whatever. We just go out of view until Rakka calms down, then she's allowed to come out and look at the other dog, calmly. Because she wants to go over and investigate that other dog so badly, she will calm down if it means getting a better view. Getting worked up means no view at all.
Sometimes there's nothing to block the view, in which case, she can be distracted with a toy, treat, or even just some obedience work without any toys or treats. Pretty much any time Rakka gets worked up, we stop and stay in one spot until she sits and looks at me. So, now, sitting and looking at me has become her "go" button.