And here are two "beauty" tosas that were published in a Korean book dated in the eary 1990's. Less than 20 years ago. You can see the great exaggerations that occurred between then and now. (The bottom pic was lifted from my website and posted on dubious websites, much to my great aggravation.)
Ok, you're a robber, you sneak into a yard to break into a house and you're met by that thing - in dim light - no bark, just a deep growl. Would scare the crap out of you, no?
Sorry Brad, I can't go there with you I just don't like them at all. That melted wax face is just not my thing. The black one is a bit more tolerable to me than the other one, but....
here's my neo story:
One of my friends wanted to get back into the dog world (she used to show and breed dalmations) and she's been a lover of mastiffs for awhile, and decided to get a Neo as a foundation bitch to start a line. She spent A LOT of time searching for breeders, etc. Was going to import one from Italy, and then instead finally settled on a breeder in the states. So, her bitch has had problems ever since she got her. She paid a fortune for this dog, too. She's barely two years old, and already needs knee surgery, and when the did x-rays, it's looking like HD too. She also has some of the skin problems I guess they get, and they're a bit worried about her eyes too (I'm not sure what that issue was). It pretty much dashed her breeding plans, but what can she do? So what happened when she told the breeder? He told her that she bought the dog on a breeding contract, and if she wasn't going to breed the dog, he wanted the dog back so he could breed her, claiming she was the pick of the litter, etc (scary, huh, if that's the best of the litter!), and "all" neos have these problems, and he would never have sold the dog if he knew my friend wasn't going to breed her! Of course he can't actually take the dog back under these circumstances, and my friend is going to have her girl spayed, but it was just unbelievable! My friend has really lost interest in the breed after this. By the time she'd bought this pup, she felt like she understood there were health problems in the breed, but she figured she knew how to find a healthy dog and a reputable breeder. And then it turned out not to be the case. Really sucks.
eta: I have no idea if these issues are widespread in Neos or not, though. sounded like they were, but I'm only getting that second hand.
I would be more concerned with the fact the average lifespan of a Neapolitan mastiff is 2.33 years.
Regarding breed history, from what I understand-- southern Italy was very poor. The fanciers were spread across the globe looking for unique dogs. Well, the villagers decided to sell their rejects to the fanciers to make a living-- similar to how the Tibetans sold their rejected Khyis to the Brits, which became the Tibetan Mastiff in the show ring; and the Newfoundlanders sold their long-haired St. John Water Dogs (went extinct in 1970s) in 1700s and 1800s to the Brit merchants, which would become the curly-coated retriever, the flatcoat and golden retrievers. The desirable working native short-haired ones weren't really formalized into and modified its own breed until late 1800s, early 1900s in Britain as "labrador retrievers". So really, the Cane Corso were the ones the Italians kept; the Neapolitans were for foreign fanciers.
The first Neo (new pictures) looks horribly over baggy to me. I am not a fan of any sort of exaggeration in dogs whatsoever. The second one though... Yeah, that dog would scare the crap out of me. I don't mind that type of Neo but the other... No. If it came down to picking a Neo or CC, I'd go with the CC.
Neapolitan Mastiffs seem like really awesome companion dogs. I prefer a tighter lipped and more athletic dog for a companion, but the Neos I've known are super sweet.
So, I take you guys fall on the "Hate'em" side. LOL
Yea, Neos are disgustingly unhealthy, but can you honestly look at them and think they'd be a healthy breed? That over-exaggerated loose skin doesn't come cheap - and it doesn't exactly happen in nature. How do you think they keep that loose skin in the breed? Very close inbreeding, that's how!
Here's a rule-of-thumb to go by in dog breeds: if there is an exaggerated feature of a breed that doesn't naturally occur in other canine in nature, then that breed is being inbred to keep that feature. And there is just simply no way to heavily inbreed w/o adding some health issues into the mix - and compounding them with each litter that keeps the type.
@shibamistress - I don't mean to be harsh, but it's really hard for me to believe that someone did a lot of research in the breed, purchased a dog for breeding, and then is shocked about health issues. It would take very little research to learn about all of their health issues and glancing at a few pedigrees would quickly show why those health issues will not easily be removed from the breed. I don't mean to be insensitive, and I feel bad for anyone who ends up with an unhealthy dog, but it's not as if it's a secrete in the breed. A brother/sister or father/daughter breeding is the norm for the breed.
@souggy - I had no idea their life span was THAT short (on average). That's very sad.
@Losech & @Crispy - Yea, I would go with a CC over a Neo for guarding too. Really, I have no interest in purchasing a Neo - ever - but I do have a "gross, look at that" kinda curiosity for them. One day I might rescue a Neo. I have seen a few that needed a home and considered it. Tho, I think I'd regret it (due to health costs).
Really, I'd rather have a very wet CC over a dry Neo. Something like this dog is what I would shoot for...
-or-
I wish Blue was wetter like that. :oT ... But functionally, he is perfect for the job (tho I'd like him to be a bit tougher at times).
However, I do prefer the more Mastiff-like personality of the Neo over the Bulldog-like personality of the CC... Cane Corso can be too hyper and clingy for me. Blue can drive me nuts with that sometimes.
In Vermont, my elderly Neo neighbor had a Neo mastiff (pre Harry Potter movie). He was a very quiet dog who would go on long walks with him, and he loved his dog very much. The dog appeared to be a "marshmallow", but then I never attempted to mug the gentleman.
I have always sworn - like so many on this forum - I would never get breeds with exaggerations (that always turn out to be unhealthy), but I forgot to knock on wood when I said it. I am now owned and loved by a huge-hearted bull dog. She goes to work with me in cool weather and woos all of my clients. She has a special place in her roomy heart for hyperactive children, but the only person who ever bested her at tug-a-war was a three year old. I love her dearly, but I wont get another (knock, knock).
Some of these 'hypersynthetic' breeds are amazing, even if heartbreaking for their health problems.
Well, I do not particularly dislike the neos, but I hate the slobbering, so it's definately not a breed for me! Impressive looking dogs for sure though...
@Brad, no worries, it doesn't sound harsh. I think I didn't make myself clear: she knew there were health issues, but didn't expect to be told to breed a bitch with HD and other health issues. It was me that was so shocked by how bad it was! I do recall her talking about the line breeding before she got the bitch, and me being dubious....Esp. since my friend is generally pretty strict about health issues--she does very few vacs, raw diet, holistic vet, etc. But she's got a huge blind spot with certain types of dogs, and is a sucker for those kinds of breeds I think. Dals aren't terribly healthy either and she did that for years, before she got out of showing dogs. She's also had a bulldog, who died of heart failure at 3.
I too was shocked by the average neo lifespan!
also @Brad....what does "wet" mean in this context?
@shibamistress - Ah, yea, breeding an unhealthy dog is not cool, but probably impossible to get away from in the Neo breed. Also, yea, Kyla is right - "wet" refers to the loose skin (in Neos)... I've heard the term "wet" used to describe thick fleshy dogs who do not drool also - so it's not specific to the amount of drool as much to the exaggeration of the type ("wet type" or "dry type"). A very "wet" dog will have an exaggerated type, while a "dry" dog will have a less exaggerated type. So, often the term "wet type" is synonymous with "show type" and "dry type" is synonymous with "working type".
ETA - Masha is an example of a relatively "dry" type CO, while Naum is an example of a relatively "wet" type CO. Luytiy is somewhere in the middle. Kodie is looking more dry than his mom at this point (he looks like an aboriginal CO at the moment).
@Nekopan - I like that dogs too, tho I wish the picture wasn't so overexposed so we could see the brindle better. )
I actually love Neo's. But I have come to accept, I am just a sucker for a furry face. I like'm all. Big dogs, little dogs, fluffy, jacked. What I don't like are many dog people (present company excluded of course) The kind of people who create these jacked up breeds, and designer breeds, and all these messes. But I would smoosh any puppy face that will let me!
Ahhh il Mastino Napoletano!!! I love them! But I love them because I am from Napoli. I remember the stories of the mastini guarding the caves while my grandmother and aunts (? sp) hid during the ally (? sp) invasion. The stories of them fighting the north coming down and conquering us. There are legends about the mastino and because of them I hold them dear to my heart as warriors. Ofcourse now they aren't needed in that context. I know of people on Vesuvio who use them to guard buffalo and livestock. There are some Italians who use them as PPD's, mostly criminals honestly.
I don't like the look they have taken on. I've seen AKC shows, and the mastini look terrible. Everything has been way over exaggerated! They're folds, they're skin, it's just too much. A working dog IMO would never look like that. It's not what I remember as a kid.
These dogs are going to have serious health problems, skin problems, dysplacia, etc. Anyone going to buy one should only expect 7 years from them. 2 sounds a bit ridiculous.
Brad, what does a wet CO compared to a dry look like? I've seen only a few pictures of them and most (except yours) are kinda blurry and not very good.
And I don't hate the Neos, I just dislike what the fancy has done to them. I used to dislike any and all mastiff-types simply on looks but now I'm seriously considering getting one as a future dog. I'm not sure what breed though, it really depends on if I need it for a purpose or not.
Comments
Source: http://www.alleri.eu/notizie/vedi.php?rubrica=cani&cat_id=1&news_id=12&language=it
Ok, you're a robber, you sneak into a yard to break into a house and you're met by that thing - in dim light - no bark, just a deep growl. Would scare the crap out of you, no?
----
----
here's my neo story:
One of my friends wanted to get back into the dog world (she used to show and breed dalmations) and she's been a lover of mastiffs for awhile, and decided to get a Neo as a foundation bitch to start a line. She spent A LOT of time searching for breeders, etc. Was going to import one from Italy, and then instead finally settled on a breeder in the states. So, her bitch has had problems ever since she got her. She paid a fortune for this dog, too. She's barely two years old, and already needs knee surgery, and when the did x-rays, it's looking like HD too. She also has some of the skin problems I guess they get, and they're a bit worried about her eyes too (I'm not sure what that issue was). It pretty much dashed her breeding plans, but what can she do? So what happened when she told the breeder? He told her that she bought the dog on a breeding contract, and if she wasn't going to breed the dog, he wanted the dog back so he could breed her, claiming she was the pick of the litter, etc (scary, huh, if that's the best of the litter!), and "all" neos have these problems, and he would never have sold the dog if he knew my friend wasn't going to breed her! Of course he can't actually take the dog back under these circumstances, and my friend is going to have her girl spayed, but it was just unbelievable! My friend has really lost interest in the breed after this. By the time she'd bought this pup, she felt like she understood there were health problems in the breed, but she figured she knew how to find a healthy dog and a reputable breeder. And then it turned out not to be the case. Really sucks.
eta: I have no idea if these issues are widespread in Neos or not, though. sounded like they were, but I'm only getting that second hand.
Regarding breed history, from what I understand-- southern Italy was very poor. The fanciers were spread across the globe looking for unique dogs. Well, the villagers decided to sell their rejects to the fanciers to make a living-- similar to how the Tibetans sold their rejected Khyis to the Brits, which became the Tibetan Mastiff in the show ring; and the Newfoundlanders sold their long-haired St. John Water Dogs (went extinct in 1970s) in 1700s and 1800s to the Brit merchants, which would become the curly-coated retriever, the flatcoat and golden retrievers. The desirable working native short-haired ones weren't really formalized into and modified its own breed until late 1800s, early 1900s in Britain as "labrador retrievers". So really, the Cane Corso were the ones the Italians kept; the Neapolitans were for foreign fanciers.
If it came down to picking a Neo or CC, I'd go with the CC.
Neapolitan Mastiffs seem like really awesome companion dogs. I prefer a tighter lipped and more athletic dog for a companion, but the Neos I've known are super sweet.
Yea, Neos are disgustingly unhealthy, but can you honestly look at them and think they'd be a healthy breed? That over-exaggerated loose skin doesn't come cheap - and it doesn't exactly happen in nature. How do you think they keep that loose skin in the breed? Very close inbreeding, that's how!
Here's a rule-of-thumb to go by in dog breeds: if there is an exaggerated feature of a breed that doesn't naturally occur in other canine in nature, then that breed is being inbred to keep that feature. And there is just simply no way to heavily inbreed w/o adding some health issues into the mix - and compounding them with each litter that keeps the type.
@shibamistress - I don't mean to be harsh, but it's really hard for me to believe that someone did a lot of research in the breed, purchased a dog for breeding, and then is shocked about health issues. It would take very little research to learn about all of their health issues and glancing at a few pedigrees would quickly show why those health issues will not easily be removed from the breed. I don't mean to be insensitive, and I feel bad for anyone who ends up with an unhealthy dog, but it's not as if it's a secrete in the breed. A brother/sister or father/daughter breeding is the norm for the breed.
@souggy - I had no idea their life span was THAT short (on average). That's very sad.
@Losech & @Crispy - Yea, I would go with a CC over a Neo for guarding too. Really, I have no interest in purchasing a Neo - ever - but I do have a "gross, look at that" kinda curiosity for them. One day I might rescue a Neo. I have seen a few that needed a home and considered it. Tho, I think I'd regret it (due to health costs).
Really, I'd rather have a very wet CC over a dry Neo. Something like this dog is what I would shoot for...
-or-
I wish Blue was wetter like that. :oT ... But functionally, he is perfect for the job (tho I'd like him to be a bit tougher at times).
However, I do prefer the more Mastiff-like personality of the Neo over the Bulldog-like personality of the CC... Cane Corso can be too hyper and clingy for me. Blue can drive me nuts with that sometimes.
----
I have always sworn - like so many on this forum - I would never get breeds with exaggerations (that always turn out to be unhealthy), but I forgot to knock on wood when I said it. I am now owned and loved by a huge-hearted bull dog. She goes to work with me in cool weather and woos all of my clients. She has a special place in her roomy heart for hyperactive children, but the only person who ever bested her at tug-a-war was a three year old. I love her dearly, but I wont get another (knock, knock).
Some of these 'hypersynthetic' breeds are amazing, even if heartbreaking for their health problems.
Impressive looking dogs for sure though...
I too was shocked by the average neo lifespan!
also @Brad....what does "wet" mean in this context?
@Brad, that second CC you posted is absolutely gorgeous.
ETA - Masha is an example of a relatively "dry" type CO, while Naum is an example of a relatively "wet" type CO. Luytiy is somewhere in the middle. Kodie is looking more dry than his mom at this point (he looks like an aboriginal CO at the moment).
@Nekopan - I like that dogs too, tho I wish the picture wasn't so overexposed so we could see the brindle better.
----
What I don't like are many dog people (present company excluded of course) The kind of people who create these jacked up breeds, and designer breeds, and all these messes. But I would smoosh any puppy face that will let me!
I don't like the look they have taken on. I've seen AKC shows, and the mastini look terrible. Everything has been way over exaggerated! They're folds, they're skin, it's just too much. A working dog IMO would never look like that. It's not what I remember as a kid.
These dogs are going to have serious health problems, skin problems, dysplacia, etc. Anyone going to buy one should only expect 7 years from them. 2 sounds a bit ridiculous.
And I don't hate the Neos, I just dislike what the fancy has done to them. I used to dislike any and all mastiff-types simply on looks but now I'm seriously considering getting one as a future dog. I'm not sure what breed though, it really depends on if I need it for a purpose or not.