@Eljefespeaks - That black and tan, did he come from the litter that was 2 black/tans and 2 sesame types? If so, he may be the littermate to Fate ( @Sangmort ) and makes for a very big range in size from one litter (see Fates growth rate above).
@Calia - yes-ish. that Fall 2010 litter was 5 pups, two of which were black and tan. and you are correct - there was A LOT of size variation in the puppies. The litter was 6 but one died. Seems like the sizes were widely skewed probably because of the large size - just not enough to go around. There were two in particular that were noticeably small - one black and tan (NOT Kuma in West Van) and one sesame. I have one pic of 4 of the pups just before they went to owners and Kuma is quite massive compared to the others, so not too surprising that he is at the top of the weight range
There seems to be quite a variation between shika pups. Not surprising, I guess. Even in the same litter, they can vary. Just look at Rakka and Ahi (they're littermates). Rakka's like a bigger shiba and Ahi's a monster giant! I wouldn't know what Rakka weighed at 3 months, though, because I didn't get her until she was a year old. Although I have some paperwork from her first vet, so they might have it on file.
It will be interesting to see what the size range is in our litter of 5 brothers. The pups were all very close in size although @jikjak Ghost was the biggest. My Kuma is now 15 weeks and he is about 23lbs. Ghost and @BradnJess Argos are bigger. My understanding about puppy/dog growth is that each of them will get to a certain size despite that it may take each of them different times to get there. Meaning that just because Kuma is a wee bit smaller now (he doesn't eat as much as Argos and Ghost), he may none just as big as them later.
A good example of puppy size variation in the same litter. Fate is the smaller red pup. [ Katja's Aiko x Kuma, September 14th 2010 litter, these are the 4 boys...the female is missing ] ~
It's almost as if the boys are from two different matings with the same dog:-). Hey Osy, wouldn't it be nice to find the other 4 Shika pups and position them all the same way again for an after picture?
@Sangmort - I have that pic too! I was going to take one of those pups but it was too short notice for me. The big black and tan in that pic is now in West Van. He's a bit over a year old and 55lbs (and looks bigger!)
Just to speak about size variation in a litter. Koda is 52 pds, Tora I believe is 40 pds, and Glacier their sister is 22 pds. all Kais but it just goes to show how NK can vary IMO.
well i definitely wouldnt want him to be overweight and unhealthy. i meant it more along the lines that he would be a bigger example of the breed, which would mean he could weigh more without being in bad shape.
For "small" dogs, it's crazy! Though, I seem to like them when they're a bit smaller (or rather, to the "average" standard). I like the smaller size of the Shikoku. It's what draws me to them. How long do they grow for? London is a large breed so he JUST stopped growing recently and I've never really had a smaller dog so.. I'm in the dark, comparatively. I imagine Shikoku have reached their adult height at a little over a year? How long is the "filling out" period?
@ShikokuSpirit He's only 30 pds? I never would've guessed he would grow up to be on the small size. He had to be a good 20 at 4 mos. old. He's such a cute Shikoku.
Ok, these pups seem big to me. I mean, Argos weighed 29.2 pounds at 4 months old!! Some grown Shikas weigh only slightly more than that. I know males are bigger than females and there are differences within the breed but WOW. Arg isn't fat or lazy either. He seems in good form to us... and we walk him daily and he romps in the dogpark everyday with other dogs (he plays best with a pair of Suberian Huskies we met there). So should we be worrying about his weight and the impact it may have on developing bones/knees n hips? The vet says he is on track and developing nicely but (not to undervalue his expertise but he has now met one Shikoku) I can't help wondering if he is getting too big too fast. Maybe he is just big as he is Yamato's pup and he has such thick legs and big paws. Sigh, I don't know. And Arg isn't alone either, his brothers (Ghost and Jeff's Kuma) are right up there too nearing 30 pounds!!
Any thoughts from you Shikoku companions?
**edit** I would say Argos eats an average of 2.5 - 2.75 cups of food a day. Some days he is less interested in food than others.
@BradnJess - I know smaller dogs do most of their growing within the first 9 months to a year. I don't know the how long it takes the medium sized NK to grow, but if they're in that smaller time frame, it could be normal? I'm no expert on Shikoku. I can say that the vet doesn't need to see a lot of Shikoku to know your dog is growing nicely. He'd probably be looking at your dog's size and comparing it to the Shikoku average and his experience with other spitz breeds of a similar size.
From what I understand, there ARE larger Shikoku (I've seen comments that Brad's Ahi is a larger example of the breed and Yamato seems like he's King-Sized as well?), so I wouldn't be SO worried about his size. It could have just been a large litter! The only thing I could suggest is, if you're very worried about the impact his growth has on his bones, is that he should have a lot of "down time" (don't let him over-exert himself). I'm sure others can pitch in?
It's not a good comparison, but I know London was almost 40 pounds at a little over 4 months. He's now 95 pounds. He was 115ish at his heaviest (chubby Mal). He grew for at least 2 years. 40 pounds seems pretty ridiculous now that I look back at it considering his time of growth and his weight now, but his development was normal. Maybe the pups from this litter are similar?
--just to be sure, I asked my friend (a vet nurse) about it and she said these dogs seem to be developing nicely (based on weight now and average adult size for the Shikoku breed). Her exact quote is: "they [puppies] grow like crazy at that point in their life, and as long as they are putting on weight rather than losing/not getting fat I wouldn't worry - bodies are pretty good at knowing how to do their thing"
I would say that shikoku gain most of their height in the first year and then don't grow taller. My female is more or less the same general weight as she was at a year (maybe 2-3 lbs heavier) and she is just shy of 2 years old now. My male is now 4, and he neck and shoulders bulked up this year, whereas as a 2 year old, he still looked more juvenile.
All of mine are sporadic eaters so I am like Corina trying to get them to gain weight.
Yeah, Jess tells me I'm worrying too much (which is funny because she is usually the worrisome one lol) and I know the Vet is probably right but I can't help it! I worry about our "little" guy! I just want him to be healthy and happy
Rakka eats like a bird. She eats 1 cup of kibble/day at the very most. She looks good, though. She's 35 lbs and muscular. Sosuke eats at least three times as much as her.
Since the thread's revived, might as well post Arg's update. He's 6 months as of a couple days ago, 41 lbs, 19.5" at the shoulder. Eating like a bird at the moment, think he might finally be hitting a "slow down" in his growth.
good to know! it seems that ghost and argos are growing at about the same rate. ghost also seems to be slowing down with his eating. he even started turning away raw food, hes been on kibble the last week but i still have some raw left so ill give it a try again.
anyways his last measurements came out to 20" at the withers (abt 2 weeks ago) and he weighed in the other day at 42.4lbs. hes in good shape and not overweight or too thin and hes starting to get muscular.
@jikjak That's funny. We go through the same thing with Arg, he gets tired with the "same ol' stuff." We started getting him tripe and he wolfed it down the first few times, now he sometimes snubs it. And Ghost is getting big, too! How do you weigh him? Get on the scale and then get on with him and take the difference? Just asking because there's a discrepancy between when we weigh him like that and when he gets weighed at the vet.
Comments
A good example of puppy size variation in the same litter. Fate is the smaller red pup.
[ Katja's Aiko x Kuma, September 14th 2010 litter, these are the 4 boys...the female is missing ] ~
Jesse
@jikjak @BradnJess - how much are Ghost and Argos now? I expect a bit more than Kuma as they were weighing more than him previously....
hopefully u get a pic of that black and tan one if you run into him again!
i hope our boys get to be in that 55lb range.
He is such a tiny Shikoku boy, lol!
It's ok Corina, I'm still convinced our boys will catch up by the time they're 2
For "small" dogs, it's crazy! Though, I seem to like them when they're a bit smaller (or rather, to the "average" standard). I like the smaller size of the Shikoku. It's what draws me to them. How long do they grow for? London is a large breed so he JUST stopped growing recently and I've never really had a smaller dog so.. I'm in the dark, comparatively. I imagine Shikoku have reached their adult height at a little over a year? How long is the "filling out" period?
Any thoughts from you Shikoku companions?
**edit**
I would say Argos eats an average of 2.5 - 2.75 cups of food a day. Some days he is less interested in food than others.
From what I understand, there ARE larger Shikoku (I've seen comments that Brad's Ahi is a larger example of the breed and Yamato seems like he's King-Sized as well?), so I wouldn't be SO worried about his size. It could have just been a large litter! The only thing I could suggest is, if you're very worried about the impact his growth has on his bones, is that he should have a lot of "down time" (don't let him over-exert himself). I'm sure others can pitch in?
It's not a good comparison, but I know London was almost 40 pounds at a little over 4 months. He's now 95 pounds. He was 115ish at his heaviest (chubby Mal). He grew for at least 2 years. 40 pounds seems pretty ridiculous now that I look back at it considering his time of growth and his weight now, but his development was normal. Maybe the pups from this litter are similar?
--just to be sure, I asked my friend (a vet nurse) about it and she said these dogs seem to be developing nicely (based on weight now and average adult size for the Shikoku breed). Her exact quote is: "they [puppies] grow like crazy at that point in their life, and as long as they are putting on weight rather than losing/not getting fat I wouldn't worry - bodies are pretty good at knowing how to do their thing"
(this is such a longer post than I had intended)
All of mine are sporadic eaters so I am like Corina trying to get them to gain weight.
I wouldn't worry too much; chances are they will settle in the 45 - 50lb range.
Yoshi, at almost 4yrs old, eats ~3-4 scoops / day depending on his mood, and tends to stay pretty close to 45lbs. +/- 3lbs.
anyways his last measurements came out to 20" at the withers (abt 2 weeks ago) and he weighed in the other day at 42.4lbs. hes in good shape and not overweight or too thin and hes starting to get muscular.
And Ghost is getting big, too! How do you weigh him? Get on the scale and then get on with him and take the difference? Just asking because there's a discrepancy between when we weigh him like that and when he gets weighed at the vet.