Chipped Teeth and Raw Bones?

sar17sar17
edited April 2012 in Food, Nutrition, & Health
Hey everyone! Some of you may not recognize my name, I am new to this forum and this is my first post, a side from my introduction!
So I do have a question, maybe some of you have experienced this.
My sister has recently adopted a GSD, she is currently on kibble but frequently gets raw knuckle bones which she eats completely. We both noticed that her teeth are chipping from eating the bones. My question is, is this normal? She would like to change her over eventually to a raw diet but were not sure if her teeth chipping is normal or if it is bad to give her to many bones because of this? We both grew up with collies and they are not big bone eaters so we've never encountered this problem! I am kind of thinking its not a big issue and is normal for some chipping, but I am honestly not sure!
Look forward to hearing what you have to say!

-Sara

Comments

  • SayaSaya
    Beef knuckle might be the issue beef bones are pretty hard and some dogs who try to crunch it in half might chip their teeth.

    I never fed beef knuckle bones if I did I'd get a really meaty one and let Saya tear the meat off and take away once it's just bone.. I can't find place to buy it and I rather not try my luck with beef bones like that.

    only beef bones Saya has had are beef ox tails the individually cut segments I always get the big kind with lots meat.

    She also gets beef ribs I forgot the name of it. The rib was whole rack I cut them into individual ribs. I got one where there is two ribs still attached for more work.

    Saya can grind the ox tails usually half or sometimes she can grind the whole thing and with beef ribs she strips the meat off and can only grind a bit of the ribs on the tips.

    I mostly give pork ribs, lamb ribs, chicken bone in items, turkey bone in and pork shoulder roast she can grind the jointed parts with no issues.

    I check Saya's teeth and her teeth are nice and not chipped.

    Beef bones like marrow bones scare me due to how thick they are..

    Saya handles lamb shanks pretty well she tears the meat up and works on jointed part and part where the marrow is..

    Sorry this has happened.

    Does the dog bite hard on the knuckles? Or lightly grind on it? How meaty are knuckle bones.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Most dogs with healthy teeth do not have problems with chipping teeth from raw bones, but as Saya has noted, knuckle bones are pretty hard, and should only occasionally be given. Still, all my dogs occasionally chew on them with no ill effects. I did have a GSD (who has since passed on) who had bad teeth, though, and it was these big bones that were problems for him too. However, he was able to eat a regular raw diet (mostly of chicken necks/backs and some thighs/drumsticks) quite well and had no problems with that.

    His teeth were weak since he was a pup--he'd had parvo, and I believe the fever/disease left his teeth weaker than average.

    My best friend's (very healthy, weaned to raw) GSD has never had any problems with any sort of bones, including the occasional big beef marrow bone.
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Knuckle bones should be eaten by grinding them with the back teeth to get through the hard parts. I would ask how the GSD is chewing them. With that said, most dogs know how to chew a bone instinctually.

    I would get his teeth checked by a vet just in case.
  • sar17sar17
    Interesting . . . Thank you for these answers. She does seem very carful and like she knows what she's doing when eating these bones. . . She does grind them with her back teeth, and the chipping were seeing is in the molars.

    The bones she was getting weren't overly meaty either. If given knuckle bones should they only be allowed to eat the meat off them? She has been eating almost the whole bone in about 30 mins. . .(saying that maybe she's not being as carful as I am thinking?) She's probably had about 5 now, and was getting them once a week. She hasn't had any for about 3 weeks now, because of her teeth concern.

    I will inform my sister of getting a vets opinion as well.


    Thanks again!






  • tjbart17tjbart17
    edited April 2012
    I let mine eat the knuckle bone, and I've never had any issues. With that said, others may have.

    It really sounds like a vet response is needed. I'm not one to run to the vet for everything, but teeth issues if left untreated are expensive in the end!! You don't want to end up spending thousands of dollars to fix teeth or a thousand to pull them.
  • SayaSaya
    edited April 2012
    Like I said I never fed beef knuckle bones before so I dunno. Bad dog frida in Madison WI had one when I visited, but no room in the chest freezer with the deer liver, deer heart, and cheese I gotten.. :\

    I'd take advice from people who feed knuckle bones before I guess.

    I'm just starting give more things like beef ribs Saya been raw fed for two years and I haven't given her beef rib till just recently. I was worried about teeth chipping so far Saya does fine. She strips the meat then gnaws on the meat less bone for a bit and eventually gets tired.

    I let her chew on the rib even without meat and she does fine once she is done with bone I toss it.



  • lindsaytlindsayt
    I avoid knuckle bones. Too many dogs get slab fractures from trying to chomp down hard on the really heavy weight bearing bones. Try something easier for the dog to break apart.
  • LosechLosech
    Yeah, I won't use those big bones. The hardest bones I give are raw beef ribs, and even then, once the meat it stripped off, I take it away. I try to only give my dogs easily edible bones like poultry or softer pork bones.
  • ttddinhttddinh
    I five my dogs the bones with the marrow inside. They eat up all the marrow in the inside and I take it away (the pieces are short) and to reuse them, I fill them up with peanut butter. Which pork bones are soft @losech?
  • LosechLosech
    @ttddinh The smaller rib bones, usually. My Shiba can crunch through them easily. They are a little harder than a turkey back, which can be pretty tough in some spots.
  • SayaSaya
    Saya my 21lb shiba can handle pork ribs, and pork shoulder roast bones.

    9lb shoulder roast here
    Photobucket

    Photobucket

    Reduced to 2 or 1lb I think.
    Photobucket

    When it was meaty it was a meat type meal and then once she got to the bone she grind the jointed parts.

    I just thawed it, fed it to her then put it back in the freezer when she was done and eventually she got to the bone..

    She has had split pig's feet before it's very boney meal I usually give a bit of meat with it.
  • LosechLosech
    Oh, yeah forgot about those. Conker can crunch up shoulder and butt bones easily as well. They are usually pretty soft.
  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    photos courtesy of Nicole's vast raw feeding photo archive! :) I can't believe the shots you have! "let's see, I'd like to see the progression of day 2 to day 3 of a pork shoulder...have you got that?" Why yes I do! I love it!
  • sar17sar17
    Okay, all this is very helpful! I really don't know a lot about raw feeding, so trying to learn as much as I can! We weren't intending on having her eat the knuckle bones, but when she ate the first one and seemed fine we allowed her to eat the others . . . So generally to be safe beef bones should not be eaten?
    Hoping the teeth are nothing serious, just from chopping too hard. There not horribly chipped, but we defiantly want to catch it now, obviously.
    @Saya - Thanks for the photos! This is something else I did not realize, generally will dogs grind down on only the joined parts of a bone, because they are softer?

  • CarabooACarabooA
    So, I have a question about the raw feeding... I'm pretty good with keeping weights proper on dogs with kibble... but wondering how you determine how much raw to feed your dog per day? Does anyone have a sample "recipe" or know lbs of what you feed raw per day?
  • SayaSaya
    LOL I do have a pic of each time she ate it I'm nuts. lol I usually cut meat off the shoulder for boneless meal and have meat covering the bone for a good work out, but this one had a lot of skin and lots of the leg so I let her work on it like that skin was nice and chewy.

    I used the spreadsheet made by Tiki's owner on the dogster raw and weighed things out. I now only make sure her organs liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas, and all that is close to 2.24oz sometimes I cut a bit more off and she gets more like 2.30oz or 2.40oz, but I try keep it in that weight.

    I use a digital scale.

    With boneless meat like beef steaks, ground beef, or pork chops I weigh it in various amounts.. Ground I weigh that into 3oz meat balls to be more like a snack or sometimes small meal, boneless I weigh in 4oz to 8oz and same for heart and tongue I keep it in 4oz to 8oz I fed her a 11oz lamb heart once.

    Things like heart and gizzards are rich so some dogs can't handle a big piece like 11oz or can only eat a bit of it with a bone in meal.

    With a big thing like a pork shoulder or lamb leg I weigh it before I fed it to her then after to figure out how much she has eaten Saya is good about self regulating herself usually she eats 7oz to 10oz of it sometimes she'll eat 13oz.

    Some dogs don't do that and would eat till they pop so best to monitor and take away once you think they had right amount.

    I feed Saya 2% of her weight, but now she might get a bit more or less depends.

    Day before Yesterday she ate 8oz of lamb shank, Yesterday she ate 9oz of white fish and chicken foot, and today she got a egg and 2.24oz of chicken liver and tomorrow I plan to give her 3oz ground beef and a rabbit thigh.
  • CarabooACarabooA
    Oh wow, ok! Great info @Saya!!! I'd love to start going more raw in the dogs diets .. especially since I usually have goat in the freezer from the culls from our goat herd.... that would really work.. I just never knew how much to feed them... 2% of body weight is a good place to start! Thank you!
  • SayaSaya
    Yeah 2% is good to start can always decrease if they gain weight or increase if they loose it.

    Saya has had goat before it was from hare today ground meat, bone and organs so wasn't goat RMB or anything.

    I've gotten ground ewe from local farmer too.

    Saya likes taste.
  • violet_in_sevilleviolet_in_seville
    The spreadsheet which Saya posted in the past is the most helpful because it give proportions of bone and secreting and non secreting organs in proportion to muscle meat. Hitting the percentages correctly is in my opinion the hardest and scariest part of going full raw (though there are vitamin and mineral concerns too).

    As posted you generally want to stay away from weight-bearing bones of large mammals. If you want to help clean teeth, poultry backs and necks are the most useful and pretty widely available.

    As for general weight proportion of raw, 2-3 % is a good rough guideline but I admittedly follow what my breeder does, which is to go more based on how the dog looks. Keep in mind your dogs' individual needs and habits and adjust till they are at and maintain the weight you want. I have two shibas. The boy needs about 2-3% but the girl, who is not really more active, needs 4.5-6% to maintain body weight and needs an additional 12-16 oz of cheese and half a dozen eggs weekly to boost her up to a more desirable, but still thinner than ideal 17.5 lbs. If your dogs burn faster or slower than normal you should adjust. Since I already knew that my girl had a seemingly high metabolic rate I started her off on 4% and found that I still needed to increase. Also, barring allergies, easier to start them on poultry when introducing a raw diet and slowly introduce new proteins.
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