sleeping arrangements for a young Kai Ken

So Leo is not quite four months old. He's been sleeping in a vari-kennel crate upstairs in the bedroom with us. Oskar, our Akita, also sleeps upstairs, but he usually sleeps out on the deck.

Leo has never liked the vari-kennel crate, and he will cry quite piteously if we don't wait til he's totally conked out to put him in it. He doesn't like being alone at all and he can't see Oskar well if he's in that crate. I also think the crate may be a bit hot. It's hot here and we don't have a/c or anything like that, and yeah, it's hot upstairs.

Anyway, while I was out of town, my husband let Leo sleep outside the crate, and he chose to sleep out on the deck with Oskar. Husband thought this was great, and apparently it was ok for 3-4 nights. But Leo's awfully young to have free reign and the last two nights have not been so good. He still wakes up as the sun rises, and in the past two mornings he has destroyed two planter boxes and one whole planter full of plants (my entire garden is in planters on the deck, and I really don't want to lose more plants). He also peed in the house. (Apparently he decided peeing in the carpet was preferable to peeing on the deck). So as I suspected, he is too young to sleep outside of the crate.

But I really think he doesn't like the vari-kennel type crate. He never really complains about being in the big wire crate downstairs, but I don't know if it is the openness he likes or the fact that it is big even for our very large Akita, so it's like being in an ex-pen.

So I'm mulling this over. Should I just buy a wire type crate for him? I can't fit a very big one in the bedroom, but I could get one that will fit an adult Kai and wedge it in next to the bed. Or I could get an ex-pen and put it on the deck and he could sleep out there but not get to the plants. (Disadvantage is I don't know if I'd be able to hear him when he woke and needed to pee, though we do sleep with the door open so maybe I would). Or should I just suffer through his fits and keep him in the crate we have?

I know Brad uses the wire type crates, so maybe will prefer that? Do other people notice a preference in Kai Ken sleeping arrangements?

Comments

  • @shibamistress I have had Tomo (Ritsu X Kumi) home for about 2 weeks now.I do use a wire crate similar to the ones that Brad and Jen have and he has been doing great. I had the crate upstairs in our bedroom the first 2 nights. Both mornings he woke up about 5am but he did sleep quietly in the crate until then. The third night I tried leaving the crate downstairs, and he is doing much better separated from us. He sleeps until 6 or 6:15am every day without any issues. We don't have any other dogs so Tomo does not have any one other than my wife and I but he does not seem to mind the separation, I think he prefers it at night. Don't know if this could work for you but it may be worth a try even in the larger wire crate that you have.

    Tomo is only 10 weeks now and he has also had a couple accidents in the house as well. He is very good in the crate and does great going potty when taken outside right away from the crate. I get in trouble when he comes back in the house and is out of the crate. I don't always pick up on when he needs to go out again. May be an hour or two before he starts wondering and sniffing and if I don't see this quickly he pees in the house. I think my situation is caused mostly by me needing to learn his timing better. Hopefully he will learn to hold it longer and I can learn more about him.... Frustrating though hope it happens soon :-)

    I really like Leo a lot, and have watching his development with great interest. I'm sure you will get him through your current issues.

  • If you're not opposed to the idea, this is what I did/do: Ciqala (Nio x Haru) would do the same, she would only sleep if she was touching me. I ended up padding down my bed with towels and an extra blanket, turning it into a circular "nest" and then putting her into a pillow case (back half in, head out) so that she wouldn't get any smart ideas. (the pillow case was my answer to waking up with pee spots by my head on my first nest prototypes.) I usually slept with a hand on her as well. She loved the safety of the pillow case and within a week learned to sleep when everyone else was and stay there until we woke up. after this, I slowly weaned her off of the bed using the same nest materials but on the floor next to the bed. this took a good two to three weeks but the crying was minimal and she understood that she was to sleep in her nest at bed time- she just fussed about it here and there.
    Both of mine sleep around my bed, the both are accustomed to the nest thing and will go out of their way to build one from my clothes or a blanket if I don't. I'm not sure if its a natural dog instinct, but it works out well, I can usually trust that if i see them in one spot as I fall asleep, they'll be there in the morning as well... with no pee or poop elsewhere.
  • Akuma does better in wire crates where he can see us. He used an expen in the kitchen until I was confident he had the idea down. By 6 months I think I graduated him and he sleeps on my bed or shares a bed with the Shibas, or at my feet. He is really trustworthy in general, although at times when he was younger, if his expen area was too large, he would pee in a corner of it, but that was around 5 months old as I was testing his ability to have more space.

    Try ex-penning the deck and be really strict with the water before bed, and maybe set your alarm to wake up every 4-5 hours for the first few nights to let him out. He will get it!
  • I like the expenning the deck idea. I dont know how it goes being strict with water in new mexico in July though...
  • Have you thought of taking his current crate and moving it to where he has a better "view" of Oscar? We used to crate Miyu (Shikoku) in a separate room from the other two and she would flip out. Human presence (ie one of us sleeping on the floor next to her) would only reduce it slightly. We eventually moved her crate next to Tikaani's and instantly she stopped being annoying in it. Though we do use the wire crates with Miyu and Tikaani (Tetsu in vari-kennel due to bar pulling), but both crates are kept under my bed which gives a somewhat confined, cave-like feel.
  • Thanks everyone! I figured people would have some ideas! Last night he threw a fit in the vari-kennel, and wouldn't settle even when I was in bed, but finally did. I got him up at 5:30 (when I woke from a leg cramp).

    I'm not averse to him sleeping on the bed but the problem is, unlike the Shibas at this age, he has no interest in settling down and sleeping with us. He's a crazed little jumper, too, and he jumps right off the bed to wander. It's not the peeing that's a problem--that's cleanable and uncommon--it's the destruction once he wakes up and decides to "entertain" himself.

    I think for the next couple of nights I'll put his crate out on the deck with Oskar--it's cooler out there anyway. Then I'll probably just get a bigger wire crate. I like the ex pen idea a lot--even thought of ex penning off the plants, but they're in huge SIP planters ringing the deck, and right now full of tomatoes, which is what I'm trying to save from Leo's "gardening" skills. But I realized it would be hard to secure the ex pen to the wood of the deck, and Leo's a jumper, so an unsecured ex pen would just fall over. It may just need to be a bigger wire crate.

    He's generally good, but he's in "bite all the things" phase right now (probably major teething) and can't really be left unattended anywhere. (yesterday he decided to "garden" in an herb garden in the ground, and made a huge hole. He also got stuck in the fencing that I had around said garden--he squeezed through it somehow and had it stuck around his belly like a belt, but that didn't stop him from digging vigorously! It was pretty funny--who destroyed the garden? Well, could it be the puppy dragging the fencing? He didn't make a peep either about being caught in the garden fencing....)
  • Oh, yeah, one more question. What size wire crate do you all have for adult Kai? I can get one that is 36x23x25 on Amazon for $51, which seems like it would be big enough. It's slightly bigger than the crate downstairs that my mega Shiba sleeps in (he's 50 pounds).

    Or could I go with a slightly smaller one?
  • I can understand with the plants both Saya and Bella would double team my big Nepenthes plant. lol

    They tore it's leaves up. I had to cut the vine luckily it had basal growths so it's still growing just not as big yet.

    Saya does fine in a wire crate she loves it she use scream as a puppy, but once dad stopped taking her out she stopped.

    I had to work with her each day during times I was around have her in crate for a bit then let her out only when silent.

    Coarse kai ken are much different so I can't comment yet. Just hope he isn't a wood chewer like Saya she chewed wood during teething. :\
  • Yep, I have 36" crates for both Rakka and Sosuke. It's very roomy for them. They can stretch out all the way and stand completely upright in that size. There's a travel kennel that's about half the size that Sosuke likes to sleep in, too. I don't use that for crating him, though, I just treat it like a bed with the door always open.

    I also have a 42" crate which someone was selling in kijiji for $30. I pretty much got it because it was just such a good deal and I can fit both dogs in there easily. It'll come in handy at some point, I'm sure.

    Come to think of it I have a grand total of 8 dog crates in my house, lol. I guess I just need to get 6 more dogs.
  • Just an update: I realized that the two vari-kennel crates I had were not, actually, the same size, and the one upstairs was a bit smaller, so that Leo could not stretch out on his side without paws touching the side of the crate. Apparently this is NOT ACCEPTABLE to the little prince. I moved the bigger crate upstairs and the smaller one downstairs and he fussed a bit last night, but only for a few minutes, then sighed deeply and went to sleep. So he seems content, for now, in the bigger kennel.

    My supersized Shibas find the smaller crate quite fine for them, and they don't mind that they have to curl up in it, so the crate the puppy rejected is fine for my big Shiba girl--she likes it!

    I'm still going to get a wire crate, but for now, Leo has settled in to the other one ok.
  • Kunai and Kitora have used the wire crates with no problems - I think they are nice as they can still see where we are and maybe don't feel quite as isolated????... Kitora fussed more than Kunai ever has (Ki was 4 mths when we brought her home, Kunai 8 weeks) It seems that Kunai actually likes to be tucked into his crate at night. We also save a very special toy that is only for him and that he only gets at night for bed time. His woobie bear (it is one of those that has a bottle and a squeaker in it) anyway... He gets it and curls right up with his bear and goes to bed. Woobie Bear is always put away for the day, and none of the other dogs are allowed to have it.
    Kitora had a duck, but she made a very short life of it as soon as her adult teeth started coming in... lol
  • Just an update on this--now Leo is sleeping in his big adult crate upstairs. It's a a big wire crate I got at a garage sale--26 x 48. He's gotten quite long in the body, and the little prince did not enjoy having his feet touch the side of the other crate, as I said before. Putting him in the bigger varikennel worked for awhile, but as he grew, he started to find this one unacceptable as well. He clearly enjoys the wire crate more--he can see out--and this will be plenty roomy even in adulthood.

    However, now he's come up with a new way to say "hey, I'm awake!" He "climbs" up the inside of the wire crate and shakes it. Wonderful. And this morning, when I tried to go back to sleep after that, he took his bully stick and pushed it along the wire of the crate. Not even attempting to chew--just making noise. Yay Leo! :(
  • @shibamistress, I am glad he is doing better with his new sleeping arrangements! Hopefully his "good morning, mom" noises will calm down as he adjusts :) I'm glad you found one at a garage sale- that probably saved you a lot of money!

    We use wire crates for all of our dogs and we love them and so do the dogs. The wire crates are easy to clean, too! The crates are open all the time during the day for them to go in to relax if they want to and they will go in and chill for a while then come out to play. We feed the younger dogs in their crates too to keep them from trying to take the others food lol It works well for us and the dogs are happy :)
  • Akuma does this still
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