What people think and say about these breed

mettazmettaz
edited January 2013 in Kai Ken (甲斐犬)
Hi.

Ok, I just have to get it out and see if there maybe it's me that don't understand anything of thing's that are written about Kai Ken.

Here in Norway Kai Ken goes under Shiba Inu Club, and today my mother have been on a seminar about breeding.
And so when she comes home she tell me these thing's :

From one of the biggest breeder of Shiba Inu here in norway: Kai and Shikoku is NOT a family dog, and they are to aggressive because of the hunting in Japan...

Ok, well.....
Yes they can be aggressive because hunting, but if you are socialization them right, with or without using them on hunting they are not aggressive ?

And what a hell...
maybe i'm the lucky one but my Kai LOVES kid's, Kid's in my family and kid's that she never have meet before, she just Loves Kid's!

I'm going crazy right now and are so pissed of about how they are talking about the Kai and Shikoku...

Really are i taking so wrong about this breed ?
Really even with god socialization they are not a good family dog ?
Really with handling them right they will always going to be aggressive ?
Really they don't like kid's ?
And are they aggressive to other dogs?

My Kai - Beauty have never been aggressive, she have always loved kids, she always get socialization by meeting new people, other dog's and on dog show and things like that...
She don't like every dog that living in this world - But Hey i don't like every people that live in this world too!


so what do you think ?
It's me or the Shiba Inu Club that have to think twice before saying things about the breed ?

Comments

  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    Ask Beauty if that's true- she'll show you the truth, and she is the one who should be believed, not a big shiba breeder.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Maybe the Shiba club is used to Shibas. How many Kai Ken have they met, and interacted with?

    Of all the NK, I think the Kai are the least likely to be "aggressive." and yes, WrylyBrindle is right: listen to your own dog and what you know. That's the answer right there.
  • NotoriousScratNotoriousScrat
    I think Shibas are way more prone to aggression than Kai are. My own dog is sweet as pie, but he used to guard and if you want to do something unpleasant to him, you'd better not be confining him or be at the vet and you'd better have some very tasty meat to bribe him with. That sort of sharpness is not present in Kais as far as I've seen.
  • mettazmettaz
    The Breeder that say this things have been in Japan several times, and have met this breed, he have met my kai and the shikoku here in Norway, but i think his biggest problem it's that he don't like these breed he like SHIBA and shiba are the best...!

    Yes i feel that it's right, but i really have to wounder about it when he can talk about the breed like he did on a breeder seminar.... :S



  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited January 2013
    The hunting comment is a common misconception. People think "hunting dog" = "dog aggressive", but in reality hunting dogs have to be able to work with other dogs in situations that are high energy and stressful. If they were so aggressive, they wouldn't be able to hunt with other dogs like that.
  • sandrat888sandrat888
    edited January 2013
    A lot of people say things out of ignorance or use a very broad brush to paint a whole breed a certain color.

    A dog's reactivity and/or aggression can be attributed to many things, such as genetics, temperament, early socialization (Most NKs have a bad reputation in being dog aggressive and I suspect many can be attributed to lack of proper early socialization in the country of origin).

    I have met one Kai in person. I have 2 Shibas of my own and have met many Shibas - both well-bed and from questionable breedings. I would not make an outright statement saying Shibas are certain ways and Kais are the other ways just based on my limited experiences and a very small samples I have met of either breeds.

    Rather than focusing on whether a certain breed is dog aggressive or not, focus on the linage of your own dogs - what the sire/dam and grandsires/granddams are like, what about litters from past breedings vs. being too obsessed with the generic breed description. And then focus on getting early socialization right and putting the proper training/bonding along the life of the dog.
  • mettazmettaz
    But i think with all these 6 / 7 breed, it's handling on socialization, what you are doing with / for your dog and how you are handling the dog's reaction on thing.

    And i know if Beauty - My Kai was training for hunting she would be a good hunting dog - but i'm to scared for do hunting with dog's.

    but if she was use as a hunting dog - she would still love kid's still don't be aggressive to people or other dog's.

    But how can people or a man just stand up and say things like that about this breed ?

    I have never found a side on web that say this things about Kai, have you?
    Are Japanese people that know kai breed good, saying things like that ?
    Are the Kai- Ken like this in Japan ?

    I'm so confused about it and a little bit pissed about the way to talk about the breed on, on a breeder seminar, to people that don't know the breed and get that picture of it! :(

    Too bad!
  • CarabooACarabooA
    We have two Kai and have not experienced any of the negative qualities that were described above. Your Kai sounds a lot like ours, our female is very very drivey and has absolute adoration for our daughter and family, our male not quite as drivey but same thing with our family. Is also very good (but cautious) about meeting strangers... I could go on and on, but everyone about has stated it very clearly. Your (mom, did you say???) has heard a lot of misconceptions about the breed, unfortunately. I don't know Shikoku but the owners of those breeds can speak up more on them :)
  • mettazmettaz
    But i think also that, when people say things like that about Kai - Shikoku and this breed also talking about Shiba...

    If Kai isn't a family dog, how can Shiba be it ? :)

    I have one Shiba and a Kai, and my mom have 4 American Akita and 1 Shiba, - We live together and all of our dog's love Kids, and are not aggressive...

    So all in all about what he are saying about the other breed he also talking negative about Shiba, that what i would think if he was telling me this about Kai....

    it's to bad that I'm not on this breeder seminar to say these thing's to him :)

    So how are your Kai with other kids?
    With your family?

    Have your Kai aggressive behave?

    Thanks a lot for answer - And so sorry for my bad English :)
  • CarabooACarabooA
    Our Kai are very friendly when meeting any other kids and curious and then friendly with anyone we invite into the house or introduce them to. We haven't had any aggression issues whatsoever. We have also only made sure that they have had positive experiences with people we know and trust. I don't have any doubt though that these dogs would protect us with their life if need arose... They are very loyal. :)
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    My Kai is not yet a year old, but he loves people. Everytime he sees a new person, he's super excited, jumping and wagging his tail. He loved people from a young pup--I remember seeing him in videos while he was still in his litter and he always was going to investigate the people.

    He is the most mellow dog ever--zero aggression. I have three other dogs, and have some aggression issues with them. The female Shiba is just crazy, and can be very aggressive. The Akita is generally mellow, but he is a resource guarder, and he suprised us by HATING the Kai puppy. Turns out he doesn't like puppies at all, and once Leo was older he was ok, and now they are friends (but we had to separate them for nearly the first two months).

    This is how our Kai reacts to any "aggression": he rolls over on his back and wags his tail. Even if the other dogs are squabbling, he does this. Sometimes he does the puppy "mouth licking" on the others dogs too. He's very good at making appeasing gestures when there is any kind of tension or squabbles in the house.

    I have only heard him growl once and it was in play. He tolerates all sorts of rudeness from other dogs, and he loves the other dogs, too. He always has to be laying touching one of the other dogs, or touching my foot. He is the sweetest dog I've ever had.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    edited January 2013
    Japanese breeds on the whole have EARNED the reputation as being reactive and aggressive for a reason. They survived by being aloof and "self first oriented". Are they all this way? No! My Shibas are great pets and my CO as well. Akuma the Kai loved people, too, although he became very dog intolerant as he aged, sadly.

    Compare most any breed to a what is thought of as "traditional" lab or golden traits (breeds that have been and still are highly valued in the West as pets) ANY breed could be regarded as aggressive.

    Be glad yours are not. There's a very good chance most people haven't met "nice" Kai, or "nice" Shiba, and they are speaking from their experience watching dogs spar in the ring or being difficult to handle.
  • _Ryan__Ryan_
    @Lindsayt Exactly- many people haven't met well tempered examples of the breeds. I have found that most vets I go into the vets and vet nurses don't like Shibas, except for mine! Until they have dealt with my dogs I get the most evil looks.
  • oddballoddball
    I agree with Lindsayt. Any breed other than a lab or retriever or some type of toy breed is usually looked at as being aggressive. I have two lab/shepherd mixes right now, one is 45lbs the other is still growing at 85lbs. Both of them love kids and have never shown any aggression other than barking and growling when somebody comes near my property (they are very protective of the house but once I let someone inside they suddenly become the dogs best friend), but because they look like Shepherds most parents dont want my dogs near their kids. Kids will always come and pet them. Its the parents that have problems. I think the problem is a negative portrayal by the media about hunting breeds and wolfdog/primitive breeds. Specially with Shepherds because of there association of them being Police k-9 and military attack dogs.
  • CarabooACarabooA
    edited January 2013
    The first Doberman that I was raised with kept people away from our house on reputation alone. She was actually one of the friendliest people dogs I've ever known and wouldn't have hurt a fly.
    I was about 10 years old and my mom and I were at the store (we lived in a very small town then) and we over heard someone saying, "Aren't they the ones with the Doberman???" In a very *can you believe it?* type tone.....lol if they only knew, I mean REALLY knew....
    Oh yeah, and when I was 3 my mom tried to enroll her in Schutzhund protective training and they wouldn't accept her because she wouldn't even look at the dummy guy. She was like who? Oh him? I'm sure he's harmless.... Reputations ....
  • EidenEiden
    Yeah... People often dont have open-mind... One day, I write "Killer" on my white Sheperd (he think only about play... don't even look at people)... people stay away and even someone was thinking he was going to attack her based on nothing... so I try to write "Police"... and people ask me with big interest if he is in training for Police... that he looks good... ^^" (they do not see really the dog himself... just writing, reputation... )

    About Kaï, here it's the reputation who state that they (all the japanese dogs) don't tolerate dogs of same gender ! (a mix Kaï/border collie has been euthanazised not long ago... because an educator say to owner: he is japanese, he is dangerous, he will re-do this or that >> he was 9 month only and don't tolerate too well the kid by lack of education...it's was all)
  • carlikaicarlikai
    This is my second kai and I live alone. Neither dog had any experience with kids so my first dog turned out he was aggressive with anyone that moved into his face and unfortunately kids are about face high to the dog and he did bite one kid and once my neighbor when I first got him. Once I observed this in his personality I had to guard anyone not to bend over an put their face into his because he would bite (except me). Also, I should say I rescued him so god knows what he went thru before I saved him. He was always very stand offish with kids until I gave the kids treats to feed him and then suddenly he decided these short people weren't so bad but I still never allowed anyone to put their face down by his...it was his personal quirk so I didn't mess with danger with people outside our family. My new dog doesn't show any sign of this"face" aggression. But he's so shy you wouldn't get close to him. He comes to you on his own terms. Once again he doesn't know what kids are. If he does come to you he's very happy to interact but it takes a long time for him to accept a new person. All dogs he loves and no dog aggression. In fact if a person comes equipped with a dog then he automatically accepts the person.
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