Long-haired Akitas
So I have a question for people: what's up with the long-haired Akitas? I know it is a fault for show (well, ok, I only looked up the Japanese standards, but I think it is for the AA's too). So why would breeders be purposefully breeding them, or is it just one of those things some breeders do but shouldn't do (like breeding for colors that aren't standard in other breeds, etc)?
Then I saw something that claimed the long-haired Akitas were less dog aggressive so that was why some people were introducing them into their breeding programs, but could that be true? Sounds odd to me.
I figure sometimes the long-haired ones might show up unintentionally, as a cream-colored Shiba may show up in litters (I don't know enough about genetics and breeding to know why that happens, though I know it does), but there isn't a reason to breed for it, is there?
How common are they?
anyway, I've come across them a couple of times now, mostly with breeders selling them for a lower price (no doubt because it is a fault), but was curious to hear what people knew about them, esp. if anyone knows if there is a history to them.....
Then I saw something that claimed the long-haired Akitas were less dog aggressive so that was why some people were introducing them into their breeding programs, but could that be true? Sounds odd to me.
I figure sometimes the long-haired ones might show up unintentionally, as a cream-colored Shiba may show up in litters (I don't know enough about genetics and breeding to know why that happens, though I know it does), but there isn't a reason to breed for it, is there?
How common are they?
anyway, I've come across them a couple of times now, mostly with breeders selling them for a lower price (no doubt because it is a fault), but was curious to hear what people knew about them, esp. if anyone knows if there is a history to them.....
Comments
JA
Havent heard about anyone deliberately trying to breed them tho. Just happens from time to time from what i heard.
IMHO all that about better temperament is just a load of crap, how could doubling up on longcoat generate better temperament? I think it's just a matter of association, longcoat akitas are cutee and people tend to cuddle them more, thus they are better socialized and people draw the conclusion they have better temperament.
A couple of years ago when I first studied this matter in detail I found some AA breeders in the US that were breeding longcoat akitas and were really proud about it. I can't remember who they are, I must check my archives.
To my mind they are exactly like the rest, they are amazing dogs and deserve the best families an akita could have. But I don't think they should be allowed in the ring. The fluffy bear appearence is just not true to type. In Europe longcoat puppies are sold as pets at half the price of a show puppy. Prior to the breeding careful research is being done to see if that bitch or sire has given birth to long-coated puppies and if that is the case the breeder puts into balance the quality of the dog versus the possibility of giving birth to long-coated puppies - this is not desired, although it happens (in some kennels more than others). It's not common to test the dogs for longcoat. I'm still looking for a lab close enough to do the test.
Oh, I forgot to add that sometimes when the puppy changes its hair the longcoat can be replaced by normal coat. My Angel was born in a litter with longcoat, that's why he's so furry. In general, whites have the worst fur, but his resembles the fur of a brindled akita. He was even furrier when he was a pup, but the longer hairs were replaced by shorter ones.
http://kwestmals.com/malcolorgeneticsCoatLength.html
What you say could be entirely true, and I know nothing about JA, but it is not out of the realm of genetic possibility that some traits are carried with other genetic characteristics. This happens in breeds all the time, even in those where both varieties are born in the same litter. I've talked to long-time Collie breeders who will tell you that the Smooth Collie is a different animal: more prey-driven, more active, more rambunctious than his more laid-back Lassie-type brother.
So, long coats might have a correlation with better temperaments, but if all evidence is anecdotal, it may very well be fabricated.
I have to admit they are not the dog for me....they kind of remind me of a chow-akita cross....
We instead have a stunningly attractive Lab who loves everybody, licks, kisses, jumps, waves, and even at 3 yrs still occasionally pees with excitement when strangers come over.
And it's NOT us doing some miraculous socializing - we've owned Chow Chows, and also have a Kai - these dogs have all been exactly (or darn near) as expected for their breed type.
In fact, I feel our Kai is more aloof with strangers than I'd expect (or like), yet her little sister is unconditionally... a total spaz.
In serious need of a brushing!:
Cats with three colors in their coat are females. And something about white cats with blue eyes are deaf.
So. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilities that akitas with long coats could be sweeter in temperament. But, i'm not a geneticist. I'm more concerned with avoiding the long coat.
Basically, i think we could debate about this all day, but it would be near impossible to definitively say since, my limited knowledge, no one really knows all the exact genes (and all that incurs with genes). I mean, we don't know how to control bridling genetically. So. I kinda think there is no *real* way to scientifically say one way or another. At least not by way of internet knowledge, lol
The red gene in cat is sex-linked. Males (XY) have one alelle (producing orange toms) while females (XX) have two alelles and can be heterozygous or homozygous (producing calico or tortishell queens).
Linked genes are usually sex related. This is because the Y chromosome is actually shorter than the X chromosome; X can carry more alelles and genetic information than Y. These genes will only have one alelle in male individuals, preventing males from being heterozygous for a given trait; they are either clear or affected.
For the long coat gene to be linked with other genes (not sex related), those genes would all need to be on the same chromosome and physically close to the long coat gene itself. During meiosis when the DNA is copied, the genes that are very close to each other are more likely to get copied together. It is entirely possible that some temperament related genes are next to the long coat gene within its chromosome.
However, the fact still remains that if the long coat alelle is linked with other alelles, that linkage would be present and copy over during meiosis in all individuals who have a long coat gene -- not just the ones with the long coat appearance, but the carriers as well. At that point we're talking the majority of the Akita population. A great many Akitas would have soft temperaments because they are carriers, so many that you wouldn't be able to distinguish them from the rest.
"No one really knows all the exact genes" actually, yes we do. There's even a DNA test for it.
"So. I kinda think there is no *real* way to scientifically say one way or another." Of course there is. Scientific studies can be done even without identifying the specific genes. We know that VKH is genetic and highly heritable, for example, even though we don't have a test for it. Its simply a matter of having a proper study conducted, with scientific method, control groups, statistical analysis, etc. Not the limited experience and extremely biased opinion of pet owners who are looking to turn a conformation fault into a blessing.
I mean, who wouldn't want to cuddy up with such a fluff ball? Or touch the coat at least once?
As the owner of a midget long coat, it's actually annoying that complete strangers will manhandle my pup after asking my permission to "say hi". Just b/c she looks like a huggable teddy bear doesn't mean she wants to be treated like one. She especially doesn't like getting petted on the head/ears and will start mouthing the hand. I let her.
I'm not willing to say that coat length is or isn't tied to temperament. Some people think it is, some people think it isn't, but I don't think it's been proven either way.
regardless, Ushi is super cute!
And I don't think this is about pet owners who are trying to turn a conformation fault into a blessing. Where does that come from? I've heard the thing about long coats mostly from breeders who produced them and were placing them in pet homes. But no one was trying to justify producing long coats or anything like that--they were just talking about their experiences. Maybe those experiences are not based in hard science, but I'm certainly not willing to dismiss their experiences with dogs they know.
and i'll leave it at that.
Health concerns aside, there is nothing wrong with a long coat akita. They aren't inferior to the rest of the breed, just different. They can't be shown because it is against the breed standard which in turn is because the coat makes them less able to perform their traditional work -- but lets be honest, who can name any kennel that has working lines, Japanese or American Akitas? I don't think you can. I can't. So even then, the coat doesn't matter except for winning awards at shows. Nobody should be made to feel that their dog is "bad" or "defective" because of its coat. Every dog deserves to be loved, well cared for, and so-forth no matter how it looks, whether its purebred or not, and even if it has special needs. This is especially true for dogs that we humans intentionally bring into this world, the ones coming from breeders.