Positive Protection Training
Hi everyone! I mostly lurk around here but I have a question about training. This isn't actually about my NK (shiba), but about my presa canario, but I know you guys are an awesome resource, so I thought I would ask here in case you could point me in the right direction or offer me some advice. (Also, I hope this hasn't been asked before - I tried checking).
My presa, Baldr (six months old), has been through puppy classes, basic obedience classes, and he has one more canine good citizen class, after which he will take the test. We want to put him through rally (which I do with my shiba), possibly agility, and possibly therapy training as well - he's EXTREMELY laid back, loving, friendly and good with all other dogs of all sizes, and obedient. I'm very happy with the dog he is becoming.
The thing is, I really, really want to bring out his guardian side, too. One of the reasons we decided to get a presa canario is because they make good protective dogs. I love training my dogs - it's my favorite hobby and we work on it every day - but I am at a loss of how to bring this side out of him. He doesn't bark at the door, even if someone makes a lot of noise, and he doesn't really seem interested in doing anything but love other people.
So I'm wondering - is there a way I can train him to be protective without compromising his excellent traits (being friendly with meeting strange people, etc.)? If it's the difference between having a dog that can go everywhere/do everything and having a dog that can't do anything because he's unfriendly, clearly I prefer the former, but I was thinking about it, and I figured there has GOT to be a way to get him to start responding to 'threats,' or at LEAST barking when there are people banging on the door. (He knows a speak command, but doesn't do it on his own.)
I know there are training programs for that kind of thing, but every one I have looked into is NOT positive, which bothers me. I use only positive reinforcement and clicker training for all of my dogs. I also don't want to send him away to get trained where I can't be an active part or witness what's going on.
So - any advice? or training resources? I know he's still young but this is something I'm hoping to start before he gets too old.
Thanks
My presa, Baldr (six months old), has been through puppy classes, basic obedience classes, and he has one more canine good citizen class, after which he will take the test. We want to put him through rally (which I do with my shiba), possibly agility, and possibly therapy training as well - he's EXTREMELY laid back, loving, friendly and good with all other dogs of all sizes, and obedient. I'm very happy with the dog he is becoming.
The thing is, I really, really want to bring out his guardian side, too. One of the reasons we decided to get a presa canario is because they make good protective dogs. I love training my dogs - it's my favorite hobby and we work on it every day - but I am at a loss of how to bring this side out of him. He doesn't bark at the door, even if someone makes a lot of noise, and he doesn't really seem interested in doing anything but love other people.
So I'm wondering - is there a way I can train him to be protective without compromising his excellent traits (being friendly with meeting strange people, etc.)? If it's the difference between having a dog that can go everywhere/do everything and having a dog that can't do anything because he's unfriendly, clearly I prefer the former, but I was thinking about it, and I figured there has GOT to be a way to get him to start responding to 'threats,' or at LEAST barking when there are people banging on the door. (He knows a speak command, but doesn't do it on his own.)
I know there are training programs for that kind of thing, but every one I have looked into is NOT positive, which bothers me. I use only positive reinforcement and clicker training for all of my dogs. I also don't want to send him away to get trained where I can't be an active part or witness what's going on.
So - any advice? or training resources? I know he's still young but this is something I'm hoping to start before he gets too old.
Thanks
Comments
So, here is my advice... Do nothing!
Keep socializing him and doing what you're doing. He's only 6 months old, his protective instincts will come out later, and if they don't by two years old or so - then I might look into meeting with a really good decoy to see if they can turn-on his natural suspicion.
I wouldn't do anything for his protective instincts until he's over two tho! Don't go and talk to Protection Sports trainers - they will tell you to start working him now, but they will ruin his natural protection instincts and squash his civility. PP Sports is NOT protection.
When he does start guarding and barking at things, don't correct him for it, but don't reinforce him for it either. Just let him do it - if you want him to stop barking because someone is at the house or something, then remove him or redirect him - don't punish him.
I'd keep focusing on OB training - but be careful not to put too much control on him until he is over two year old and his instincts show up (you can always train your dog - but he only has one puppy hood to shape [or ruin] him). You don't want to inadvertently squash his natural drives. A protection dog who's afraid to walk through a door w/o permission, or jump on a couch because he's not allowed to, is pretty useless - what if the bad guy goes through that door or gets on the couch?
When he's two, if you still feel you want his protection instincts to come out more, let me know, I'll point you to the only positive PPD trainer I've met.
That's my $0.02.
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I'm glad to hear this, though, and I'm glad you mentioned the barking, too, because lately he has a habit of running through the yard barking for fun and we weren't sure if we should leave it be so that he knows it's totally fine to be vocal, or if we should try and curb it for our neighbors' sake (although, there are plenty of noisy dogs around, so it really shouldn't be that much of an issue). But I would much rather him develop these skills in a natural and positive way, so I'm happy to hear all of this.
We'll definitely keep up with the training and socialization, and I'll keep what you said about too much control in mind, too. That makes a lot of sense. (Although, all of our dogs are totally allowed on the couches/bed/etc., haha).
Oh, and I'm in Houston, TX.
Thanks again!
The main differences between PPS and PPD is this - with sport work, the dog is playing a game - it's fun for them. With PP work the dog *thinks* (or should think) it's real. The stress the dog feels in PPD training/work is real to them, and so that is why you don't want to start too early. You don't want to subject a young dog to the real stress of fighting a person.
With socialization, there are some people who feel you can over-socialize a PPD... But I disagree, the more socialization a dog gets the better they can "read" and judge a situation. A PPD is expected to make decisions on their own as to when to protect - so a dog like that need to experience as much as possible so that they are not perceiving their environment as potentially threatening when it is in fact not threatening at all.
As for age and such, to give you some number, Seco (Boerboel) is just now starting to bark at suspicious things and she is about a year old. Parka, also a Boerboel, started to guard at around a year as well... He was a total love to all people and dogs up to that point. Before he passed away he was a seriously threatening dog. Also, I had Parka's brother for a bit, he never barked with us. We placed him in a different home (he didn't get along with some of our dogs). In his new home they started doing some mild civility work with him and now he lights up when anyone enters the house. So - point is - sometimes you just have to poke the bear a bit to bring out the instinct, but that can always be done later (he's over 2 years old now) as long as it's there.
It's been my experience that the BEST and most dependable guardians start guarding later in life. The pups who guard very early often become hyper-vigilant with their suspicion and therefore are a PITA to own (read as: high liability).
I'll check around for some good decoys in your area too.
My goal is to keep taking to him to training classes and public places so that he continues to view people and dogs as positive. I really would prefer for him to have an innate sense of when to protect than to force him into it, for sure. I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track with fostering that drive. I'm glad that your experiences with guardian breeds has been similar, with instincts coming out later/toward adulthood, too.
We'll table it for now and see how he develops as he gets older!
Thanks again for all the help!