Calling all Akita Inu living in the Philippines or other tropical areas
Good day to everyone. I'm new to this forum and I'm considering getting an Akita puppy. As mentioned, I live in the Philippines. This breed is rather new to me. I only met one from one of my patients last July-August and she was adorable. So I looked up the breed and I found out a lot more about them.
I have a separate thread on the Intro boards. Since some of my concerns have already been answered there, I wanted to ask questions on how to acquire my own Akita.
Do we have local breeders in the Philippines or are your dogs imports? I'm looking for a white Akita without any masking.
How much should the dog cost if bought here? How much did you pay for your import?
If you purchased a dog overseas, did the dog come with his/her papers? Any health issues, etc?
To everyone else living in the tropics, how were you able to maintain an Akita (or similar breed) in your climate?
Did you have any coat/skin issues, etc? How did you solve them?
Thanks in advance to anyone who posts.
I have a separate thread on the Intro boards. Since some of my concerns have already been answered there, I wanted to ask questions on how to acquire my own Akita.
Do we have local breeders in the Philippines or are your dogs imports? I'm looking for a white Akita without any masking.
How much should the dog cost if bought here? How much did you pay for your import?
If you purchased a dog overseas, did the dog come with his/her papers? Any health issues, etc?
To everyone else living in the tropics, how were you able to maintain an Akita (or similar breed) in your climate?
Did you have any coat/skin issues, etc? How did you solve them?
Thanks in advance to anyone who posts.
Comments
Also, color should be one of the last things you consider, rather than the first. It is least important, and a lot of good breeders aren't going to let you choose, anyway, unless you want to wait and wait until they have the "right" color available. Akita inu (Japanese Akita) do not have masks, either.
Just like when you go to buy a car, it goes without saying that you want a vehicle that is street-legal, operational, and meets federal safety regulations. Nobody who is buying a car goes to the dealership and asks about those things, because it is assumed that the cars for sale will meet those criteria. Instead, car buyers ask about other features such as power locks, MP3 players, and fuel economy. That does not mean the car buyer wants a car that plays MP3s even if it doesn't run or a car that gets 100 mpg even if it is a death trap. The buyer wants all of the typical criteria and something additional.
Its okay to want more than the base model. There is nothing wrong with having a preference for a dog's coat color, for example. People shouldn't be attacked for those preferences. If the buyer is only looking for a certain color, then that is their prerogative. While its true that many breeders don't let buyers choose the individual puppy from a litter, they do understand that buyers have criteria and are looking for something in specific that they may not have available. For example, if someone came to me looking for a white puppy and I don't have any whites or they're all spoken for, I would politely let them know they're out of luck, rather than "forcing" them to take a non-white puppy.
Of course, its important to keep in mind that dogs are not cars. While dealerships have to sell you working, safe vehicles, there are many bad breeders and disreputable sources for buying a puppy. The buyer who assumes that they'll get a healthy and stable dog without asking the right questions may be in for a shock and regrets. It is important to educate buyers and make sure they know how to find a good breeder, which @shibamistress has mentioned.
TLDR;
Do assume that all buyers want healthy, sound, well-adjusted dogs.
Do not assume that all sellers have healthy, sound, well-adjusted dogs.
I think what @shibamistress meant by her post is that the OP should be aware that there are more important parts to a dog than colour and that waiting for a specific colour may take some time in order to get a dog that will mesh well with her wants and needs. And it is great that @Titus acknowledged that she knows this and is prepared to wait since the Akita Inu of her dreams is white.
That being said, to answer the OP's question... I am not sure that there are any Akita Inu breeders in the Philippines, so most likely you are going to need to plan on importing if you do decide that the Akita Inu is the right pet for you.
As for the tropical environment, I am not really sure what to tell you about that... I live in Virginia, which has very humid summer months. My Shibas do okay with the summer heat and humidity, but are much MUCH happier when the humidity dies down, even if it is still hot. We cope with those humid months by indoor A/C and making our long walks/play sessions early in the morning or late at night when it has cooled a bit.
The people who think they want a healthy dog--of course they do--then make all sorts of bad choices either out of ignorance or, in cases of many we see on the Shiba forum, out of impatience or wanting to save money. Then they end up buying from a mill or backyard breeder and end up getting an unhealthy dog (and often those health issues don't show up right away either), or a temperamentally unsound dog. So yes, it is a BIG concern, and not one to be brushed off. People don't automatically know how to pick a good breeder (even when they think they do).
And frankly there are enough health issues in the Japanese Akita that there is even MORE good reason to be hypervigilant. It's not at all easy to find a good, ethical breeder. In any breed.
But to reiterate, it would be useful to take a look at those threads on finding a good breeder, even if Titus thinks she knows what to look for, just to make sure. A person need to look for certain red flags. Understand what the health risks are for the breed in question, and ask about them, and see PROOF that the parents have been tested (not just the breeder's word for it). Find out what the proper tests for hips/elbows/eyes are in the country of origin, since they will be different outside the US. Etc, etc.
I'm sorry if it sounded like I was lecturing or looking for a fight, @shibamistress.
@sunyata I am sorry that mentality seems to be prevalent on the Shiba forum among "consumers." Are there truly people who say, "I do not care if the dog is sick as long as its sesame?" (Or whatever their color preference is.) That is ludicrous. I stick by my statement that normal, sane people want healthy dogs -- even if they don't express it. They shouldn't have to express it. The ones who truly do not care if the animal is unhealthy are not right in the head and not good people. They are neither sane nor normal.
So many people whim or "rescue" purchase, it's maddening. That's partially untrue. Can't really say much about sick and crippled (unless in rescue circumstances), but many people do look for a mean dog because they feel that it will protect them. Little do they know the in depth facts of what makes a good protection/guardian dog, and just figure that an aggressive dog would be good enough.
In regards to finding a breeder, check out this thread on the shiba forum: http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/7602/so-you-want-to-find-a-shiba-inu-breeder/p1
I'm really looking to get info from people specifically in my area as to how they get their JAs as I keep seeing AAs. I'm also wondering how they got their inu to adjust as my patient claims his inu doesn't need A/C. S. Huskies and A. Malamutes don't really need them here once they're adjusted to the climate - provided they have a fan, you give them water with ice cubes, keep them indoors during very hot parts of the day, etc. Now while the adjustment part is possible, I want to know if the dogs' health suffers even in a minor way as in skin/coat problems just to name an example.
@ Poetic Dragon: Thank you for saying what you said. I think for something as minor as coat color (provided it's not assoc. with a genetic flaw) is something I should have a say on.
It's going to be my dog after all. I'll have to look at it for 10-12 years. The reason why most people want a dog is because they derive happiness from it. I wouldn't get a dog that would make me a lesser measure of happiness but I have to be fully invested in terms of everything I provide for the dog.
@ Shiba mistress: Thank you for posting and trying to make sure I get the best possible dog. However, please give me some merit. I wouldn't be posting here to ask where Philippine residents get their JAs if a good breeder wasn't my top priority. I could simply Google "JA puppies for sale in the Philippines".
Yes, an ethical breeder is important, but the only thing I want you to know is that I'm asking people in my area where they get their dogs and how much did they pay for the dog.
I'm not going to the breeder's yet. I'm not going to buy a dog yet. I'm still wondering if there are any breeders here of JAs and how much they sell their pups for. I want an idea of how much the dog costs and if I have to schedule trips outside the city as most breeders are in provincial areas.
Above all, I want to know I'm paying for my dog's health - not to be charged a ridiculous amount for a purebred dog. It does happen and we all know the most expensive pups are not necessarily the healthiest so I want to get a price quote if I'm paying for too much or the dog is from a BYB.
@ sunyata: Yeah, they're not too common. It's taking a lot of effort to look for them and I want an estimate price on how much people paid to bring JAs here. I don't want to get one overseas as I can't see the dogs in person...
@ Calia: The link redirects me to the Shiba Forum sign up/log in page...
1. Hip dysplasia
2. Elbow issues
3. Intestinal problems
4. Entropia
Anything else forum members?
Honestly I would guess that importing a pup from Japan would be better for you than the US right? I'm not sure anyone can recommend one for you. Maybe Akiho can assist you.
I would actually say the top 3 health concerns in Japanese Akitas are:
1. Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada (VKH) or Uveodermatological Syndrome
2. Sebaceous Adenitis (SA)
3. Thyroid problems
A corollary to #1 and #2 is the prevalence of allergies and other skin conditions which are all or partially immune-mediated. Auto-immune, skin, and thyroid problems are the most common ailments in the breed. VKH is particularly heartbreaking.
Reputable breeders will screen for hip dysplasia and eye diseases, despite being less common than the above afflictions. This is largely because its the only thing they can screen for and partially because the puppy-buying public demands OFA and CERF even if it doesn't mean very much. (What is the point of a dog having good hips if it goes blind and loses all its fur and then slowly dies from the side effects of the steroids it has to live on to stay alive? Dysplasia may be painful, but can be corrected with surgery. VKH is just tragic all around. The only thing keeping it alive eventually kills the dog, and you've only bought a year or two of misery...)
There are no known genetic markers for VKH or SA at this time and no reliable way to screen for them. Even confirming a diagnosis in an affected dog can be tricky. Studying pedigrees may help, but the information available is spotty at best. There is a website where people can voluntarily submit the pedigrees of dogs with VKH or SA and make cross references. It is in German and only has European stock for the most part. The Japanese keep all that information very hush-hush, as it would be "embarrassing" to the breeder.
Few breeders actually screen elbows or patellas, since there are not many issues in the breed as a whole. Few breeders screen for thyroid, but I think it should become a more common practice; I personally intend to add it to my own screening process in the future. There is no way to screen for bloat, but the smaller size makes the Japanese Akita less prone to it than the American Akita, which is a blessing. I think that about covered everything...
My issue on your wanting an Akita ken would be the climate in the Phillippines. I live in Toronto, Canada where the climate is close to Akita (Japan) and even in the Summer my dog finds it intolerable. I couldn't imagine him living in a place where it was tropical all year around. My dog lasts 5 minutes outside in 25+degree weather. He is happiest in the cold and snow. Perhaps this is why Akita kens are not bred in the pacific tropics - maybe you might consider another breed that's better suited to your climates?
There are supposedly a few "famous" kennels here, and they do participate regularly in Japanese shows, importing, etc. However, I cannot vouch for how ethically bred they are.
I rarely see JAs out and about. I suspect this is, in part, because of their coats. It's finally starting to cool down here, though it's still pretty humid and wet, year-round. Frankly, people deal with that by shaving their dogs -- yes, even the nevereverevershave breeds like Shibas and Huskies. I don't think it's at all a preferred solution, but I don't have the same, strong reaction to shaved dogs that others do. Anyway, I haven't seen a shaved JA (yet?) but they're rarely seen where I'm based, Taipei. Their size deters most city dwellers; the Shiba is preferred 10 to 1.
I do agree that one should consider how well a breed can adapt to your climate, especially if you live somewhere with extreme temperatures. All dogs are very biologically adaptable in their own ways, but humans have to be flexible, as well. Maintaining an exercise regimen in the early mornings and late evenings seems like the best way to evade the heat to me, but I see that here, obviously not everyone has the energy or patience to do that every. single. day. There are a LOT of fat, lethargic dogs in the city. And it's even more obvious when they're shaved.
I think the biggest issue is the humidity, not the heat (as long as the dog isn't running around all day in direct sunlight).
I mean, look at the Bangkaew dogs of Thailand. Many (even native Thai dogs) have a thicker coat than an Akita and they do alright in Thailand with a fan, shade, and a nice pan of water. Unless that Jackal blood gives them magic thermoregulation powers, I don't think an adjusted Akita in the Philippines will be too much different. Just speculating, though.
I mean, it's just like us: we'd be super happy if it were 70 with no wind chill all the time, but we manage in extremes the same way our dogs can.
Getting back to the humidity: my Malamute has big problems with high humidity in the summer. It used to give him hot spots and skin infections from the moisture getting trapped in his coat. I just have to be extra-vigilant about his grooming in the summer to keep his coat loose and he's fine. Granted, our temps are only extreme heat/humidity in the summer, but we just got through a summer of 90+ degree weather by adjusting when we walked. We still got our 3-5 miles, we just did it when the sun was setting or rising.
So I'll go over it again, and if you don't need the information, fine, feel free to ignore all this. But I do think it is important to say, because maybe you don't know some of these things (no one can know everything!) and also, these threads are often useful for other people who come later who may need the information.
First, you came to us clearly not knowing much about the breed, so I assume you don't know what the health problems are for the breed(s) you are considering. PoeticDragon and tjbart have listed some. I'd add glaucoma and other eye problems to this, though again, hard to test for, but you should ask a breeder about eye issues for several generations back.
Second, the color issue. Of course we all may want a particular color, but most good breeders aren't even going to let you pick the puppy if you're buying a companion (rather than show) dog. (and if they do let you pick, especially if they let you pick any of the dogs out of a litter, that is a red flag). The breeders first choose which dogs will go to show homes and/or stay with them. Then most of them fit the remaining companion pups to the home they think will best suit them. That's why color becomes a non-issue unless you're willing to wait to get exactly the color you want. I'm going through this right now, waiting for an AA and had, of course, hopes on colors too. Which I'm not going to get, because the puppy I'd hoped for is going to a show home. I had to adjust to a color I wasn't crazy about. But after a few days, I'm fine with that because I trust this breeder, and know she knows which dogs will be best for me, and because color is not very important in the long run. There may be things you absolutely don't want, and then you make that decision (for me it is a long coat Akita). I've never chosen the puppy, and frankly, I don't expect to, and that's why it is so important to go with a breeder you trust.
Finally, this line is another we see a lot on the Shiba forum: "Above all, I want to know I'm paying for my dog's health - not to be charged a ridiculous amount for a purebred dog. It does happen and we all know the most expensive pups are not necessarily the healthiest so I want to get a price quote if I'm paying for too much or the dog is from a BYB."
I understand wanting to get a good idea of price, and I suspect that some JA people here can give you a ball park figure for dogs in North America (and maybe some people will be able to give you rough prices for importing dogs from Japan). But what you are paying for, when you find a responsible breeder, IS health. A good breeder does health checks. A good breeder can tell you about the health of the dogs several generations back. A good breeder can tell you why s/he chose to breed the dogs s/he bred and how s/he hopes to improve the breed with this breeding. And the breeder will probably be active in something tied to the breed, whether that is showing, canine sports or work (depending on the breed), or breed preservation in rare breeds (or some combo of those things). A good breeder is not going to be cheap, and that's what you're paying for. We have a lot of people who say "but I don't want a show dog--I just want a healthy pet." Well, you get a healthy pet from someone who may, in fact, be breeding good show dogs (or working dogs or whatever), because they care about the breed.
And finally, I believe the how to find a good breeder threads on the Shiba side may be members only, so that's probably why you're getting bumped to the log in there. It wouldn't hurt to take a look, though.
In Japan... it depends on two factors (a) do you have friends there and (b) does the seller know that the dog is going to be exported. Exported puppies with no personal contacts to negotiate for you start around 200,000 JPY and go up from there. They may add up to 75,000 JPY to prepare the puppy for export (crate, vaccine, microchip, health clearance, transport to airport, etc). Japanese do not do health screening prior to breeding and even the best breeders do not conform to the Western idea of a reputable breeder. The cultural values are different. So there is always more risk when importing from Japan.
In both cases, the above prices do not include shipping. I don't know what it costs from US to Philippines or Japan to Philippines, but Japan to US for an 8-10 week old puppy is $1,000 to $2,000 USD depending on weight, current fuel prices, etc.
In both cases, you will not get the opportunity to meet the puppy or the parents first, unless you travel to the country and pick up in person. Doing so will probably save you on shipping prices, however. In the case of puppies from Japan, a headshot is all one can expect; you're lucky if you get two photos and extra lucky if the dog is actually stacked so you can see its overall structure.
From what I know here in the subtropics, no, people rarely leave their A/C on all day for their dog when they're not at home. If they do, that's several hundred extra dollars in electricity a month for like 4 or 5 months out of the year. Instead, the dogs adapt by sleeping a LOT and having their activity heavily curtailed in the summer months. Combine this with crappy food (premium kibble is REALLY a premium here in Taiwan, about $40USD for a small bag of Orijen), and the conditions are ripe for fat, unhealthy dogs. So would you be willing to do more research on diet too to help mitigate possible skin conditions and other concerns with thick, moisture-trapping fur? Something else to consider...
Yes, I think it's great and I think you're a well meaning person. But I am asking one thing and you're answering my question with a lot of info that I'm not asking for.
Now, I've done my homework on the Akita - wouldn't even consider getting one if I didn't. The issue is I'm living in a different country. We don't have OFA and CERF here. If you want a dog, you'll get one with its first round of shots, vet records, pedigree and reg papers. Want tests done on your dog? You will have to do that on your own - for almost all breeds I've heard of. Why am I asking about health issues? I haven't been to a JA breeder/seller but let's use this example: There's a seller for the Alaskan Malamute. The price of the island-born ones are Php80-90k. The imported ones from China are Php120k. Both dogs have no papers or health tests. If I want papers, I will pay an extra 20k for the China dog and those papers are reg papers not for hip xrays or other lab work. Every reason I want to know if my money goes to health or extra status for a rare dog.
Now I reiterate - I'm asking about dogs in our setting. I know you are a well-meaning person and want me to get the healthiest dog possible and spare me from potential heartache. I appreciate the sentiment. I truly do. It just doesn't answer my question which is why I aimed it at members of the forum who live in my country.
My patient's Akita lives outdoors - he has an area for his dogs there with a small enclosure etc so none of his dogs get any A/C but they skin was fine. It's just he lives in the province and it's fairly cooler on his farm than it is here in the city.
All large breeds aren't typically bred in hot weather not because they can't adapt but island-born dogs tend to be smaller in size than those born in temperate areas. Preserving the size was the reason dogs are still imported or bred in the mountainous areas here - at least, that's what I've been told.
Thank you for saying this! It's every reason why I asked!
The usual price for pups here for the more common breeds (Lab. retriever, Beagle) runs at Php8k-14k, popular but less common dogs like Rotties range at Php15k but not beyond 20k, uncommon ones like the Akita Php20k-25k, and the rarer ones like Malamutes and Tibetan Mastiffs Php80-140k and Php200k-450k. I'm kinda hoping to get the island-born Akita because if I have to import the dog, it will be at around the price of a mastiff - and that's almost half what a small house in the province costs.
I'm hoping for some sort of health tests/lab work for a dog that will cost that much or at least some sort of guarantee that the pup will be replaced if it gets really sick/dies within a 1 year period. Does an import from Japan usually come with some sort of guarantee?
While one one hand we (the Forum collectively) preach the necessary and good sermon on A Responsible Breeder- and it's not wrong!- it goes a little bit out the window when you import from Japan. The reality is that dogs are not kept in Japan the way we expect them to be kept here- testing is not done, breeders are offended if you ask for test results, puppies are not socialized, and dogs are all kennelled. There is no 'guarantee.' It's not the home-raised, health checked, enriched puppyhood standard we expect from what we in the west consider a Responsible Breeder- so take it as far as you can, but expect that you may not find a breeder that meets the standards.
http://nihonken.blogspot.com/2013/06/good-breeders-vs-bad-breeders.html
http://nihonken.blogspot.com/p/export.html
There is also a thread on this forum about importing and "good' breeders, I just cant find it yet...it from this summer... hm
I would strongly suggest talking with Shigeru @TheWalrus if you want to maximize your potential for success importing from Japan- he can help put you in touch with a better breeder, ease the language barrier and knows all the technical details of export. http://japandogexport.com/export/
I just took a Shikoku to the Philippines a few months ago. He's still alive, though I don't know if his full coat will ever come back in. The heat and humidity I experienced there were extreme, and I'm used to Japanese summers. I really did do a double take about how well the Japanese breeds would do in the Philippines once I was bombarded by the heat wave at the airport.
However, the owner already had a Shiba, and the neighbors across the street had two AA's (I believe they will be importing some JA's in the near future). They do know how to make sure the dogs stay cool and have plenty of water, a cool place to relax etc. So yes, it is possible to own the Japanese breeds in the Philippines, though I think they are happier in cooler weather. Neither of these homes have their dogs in a/c areas, they had cool tiled carport type areas for the dogs to relax in with fans.
At this time I believe there are no JA breeders in the Philippines. As stated above, Japan is your closest bet, and also as stated above, there is no testing or health checks done on the breed here. You will of course get a pedigree with your dog.
Costs: I think costs for all the vet work/paperwork and shipping would come to @220,000 JPY (this is if someone is flying to transport the pup, and includes their airfare. Cargo costs are much higher) The pup will cost whatever the kennel asks for. Prices for nice pups will start at around 200,000 JPY especially if they are going overseas. Most kennels price show quality pups starting at 300,000 JPY. I talked to a kennel today who charges 500,000 JPY for show pups.
I hope this helps.
To echo's everyone else's advice I would book a trip to Japan go on vacation and while you are there visit some breeders. I personally believe that you would come back with a puppy of higher quality vs just shipping. Also it would give you a chance to build relationships with various breeders if you choose to go into breeding.
I personally do not know of any breeders in the Philippines. In the past year, I have been contacted three times for puppies from various people living in there.
I would say white is still more common in the Japanese Akita than the American Akita.
My American Akita's coat is as thick if not thicker than my Japanese Akitas. The difference between the two is mostly length. Her coat is about 1/2 the length, at various places on the sides and legs of her body ranging from 0.5" to 0.75". My Japanese Akitas shortest body hairs are around 1.5" and most are much longer. The other difference is thickness of individual hairs; my AA's hairs are much finer, making them feel softer.
@Titus Japanese breeders do not have written agreements or sales contracts, so there are no guarantees. That said, the breeders who typically export from Japan wouldn't stay in business if they sold a lot of "lemon" puppies and/or didn't make things right. Of the top three exporters, I know people who have had issues with one or more puppies from each of them (cryptorchird, hip problems, VKH, hermaphroditic/fertility issues) and two out of the three responded well and offered replacement pups or other compensation. The third one did not respond at all.
Keep in mind, even the best breeder who does all of the health screening imaginable can produce a pup with issues. There are no guarantees about health; only warranties. What separates a good breeder from a bad one is the dedication to preventing health issues in the first place, by whatever system that breeder's culture believes in (in the West it is health clearances, but in other places it might be the ability to work, hardiness in extreme climates, or a more Darwinian approach), and what the breeder does when something inevitably goes wrong. A good breeder cannot magically eradicate VKH, but he can take reasonable caution to avoid his puppies being affected it, be supportive and honest with the owner of a puppy affected by it, offer a refund or a replacement when the family is done grieving, change his breeding program based on the new information, and be open and transparent with other potential buyers about what happened.
@ TheWalrus: Thanks for replying. I've been looking at several dog breeds and the only the contacts for the JA eluded me. Yeah, our summers here are intensely hot.
Yep, you've helped a lot. Thanks so much!
I see. So if there is an issue with the pup there's a chance it won't get replaced. It's a bit too stressful to import a dog so I'll still check some old contacts if I can get a pup from a local breeder - or anyone planning to do so by next year.
Thanks for all your help that pretty much covers all my issues.
I actually think you might be better off with one of the other breeds you mentioned, but regardless, good luck with finding your dog!
I think you need to ask yourself if "happy enough" is really "good enough," taking a critical look at what your circumstances can accommodate. You say you're in the city and that you like apartments and condo units. This puts you in a very different position from your client, who apparently has farm space, or the dog whom @TheWalrus helped import, who apparently has a separate, well-ventilated space.
Obviously you're in the best position to understand where you want to live and what you can afford. What I was trying to underscore in my comments above is that keeping a well bred, non-native, thick-coated, large(r) breed young dog in limited urban space in a (sub)tropical climate is not impossible, but it takes a lot more work and MONEY than it appears you've taken into consideration, since your emphasis at this moment seems to be on cost of the dog.
You may be able to find a locally bred JA in your budget, but is he going to be genetically sound? Who knows, given what appears to be a very limited local population. Is he going to be well cared for? I'm sure you're going to do your very best! Will he ever be able to escape the fact that he was born a J.A. in an extremely hot environment that is totally unsuited to his physical form? Hmm...
I always wonder what the dog is thinking when I look at the faces and physiques of the Bernese Mountain Dogs, the Huskies, and any other larger, thick-coated dog that for some godforsaken reason becomes fashionable here -- which has happened to the J.A. in Taiwan before, even if they're rarer now. It's a moot point (and anthropomorphic, of course) to ask if they wished they could live elsewhere. But frankly, they seldom seem to be proud examples of their breed, mainly because the ones I've had the occasion to encounter are melting in a pool of their own mass... and to me, that's saying something.