The average temperatures are anywhere from between 25-40 degrees ALL YEAR around. These are NOT optimal temperatures for Akitas and I am sure most JA owners here will agree that choosing to raise an Akita in these conditions is cruel and unfair. @curlytails and @shibamistress are spot on with their concerns as well. Specialty food, housing, vet bills etc. are all costs which easily outweigh the cost of the dog and importing fees, etc. On top of this, you'll be living in a condo in the city. Where and when will the dog be getting enough exercise?
Respectfully, I think that you simply do not have the right conditions to raise a happy Akita. You asked us for our opinion and it has been unanimous. Your dog won't be "happy enough" so please stop convincing yourself of that. Do what's good for the dog, not what's good for you.
@ curlytails: Well, I have been told by some that they had friends/acquaintances that had all sorts of cold weather dogs that they were able to adjust to city living. I plan to visit these dogs or some of the dogs any local breeder has already sold to before finalizing my decision
@ MapleTwinkie: First off, please do not go out of your way to imply I am forcing this decision over my potential dog's best interests or that I'm planning to keep a dog in cruel and unfair circumstances. I have had a dog for 8 years now - he's healthy and well-exercised despite living in an apartment. This is why the size of the unit and its proximity to all necessary amenities (parks, vets, pet supplies stores,etc.) are things I'm considering too.
I'm not convincing myself that the dog is "happy enough". I plan to visit the breeder and other dog owners to see this for myself. Now I'm posting on this forum hoping to glean some info so when these visits do take place, I know what potential problems to look out for, weigh the costs of maintenance for optimal living conditions for my dog, and weigh out other pros and cons.
Then and only then will I make my decision what dog to get.
So. I live in Texas. The summers are brutal, getting up to 110F on some days. (43 celsius). We visit Houston from time to time and the 100% humidity does not affect my JA's coat nor skin. The humidity only affects how much cooling off he can do, so we work around it. The air is full of moisture, which does not let him cool off with this tongue as much as he could if the air was dry.
You know how we manage? Well, you wouldn't take any dog, regardless of breed, out on a day that is 100F outside? No, thats stupid. Same idea with an Akita. Take them out in the mornings and evenings. Give them ice cubes. Let them find a cold hard floor to lay on. Keep them in the AC. Ect...
And the best part?! My Toki is a happy puppy, regardless of the brutal Texas summers we have.
So YES, you can have an Japanese Akita with temperatures between 20C and 40C.
As a side note, Toki has lived in an apartment, loft, and a house. He has done well in all living conditions. Funny how when we lived in a house, he actually got less excersize because i let him have the yard. Now that he and I live in a loft, he actually gets more walks, (and that includes in the texas summer )
@titus - in your intro thread you asked if AC was a necessity. I would think yes. I assume that it is not the case that all condos/apartments have AC. Would you need to install a window unit or limit your search to buildings with central air?
You also mentioned that you would like a dog that sheds less than your lab. I really think that an akita (or any double, or in this case, triple coated breed) is going to shed significantly more. In a location with high temperatures year round you will not only see the seasonal coat blow, but you will likely see a significant amount of daily shedding.
I'm with @jellyfish on the apartment issue. It should be fine. It just means that you will spend more time than perhaps you might have otherwise exercising with your dog.
@jellyfish - I don't think you can really compare Texas climate to the Philippines. Texas does not have a monsoon season. My father has lived in Houston for a few years and has spent time in the Philippines for a few months at a stretch. While Houston was uncomfortable he did say that the heat in the Philippines was much more intense and much more uncomfortable.
@titus - when you speak with local breeders, I would also ask to be referred to any owners who are also in the same or a similar urban area to you. I'm not sure what the infrastructure looks like where you live, but densely populated cities like New York City act as urban heat islands. Their feedback should be much more applicable to your situation.
Oh dear lord you want a dog that sheds less than your lab?!?!? My akita sheds more than any dog I have even known ever. I vacuum twice a day and have made peace with buying lint removers in bulk. Furthermore my air conditioner runs from march until October here and I live in New England. In the Philippines? Air conditioning for an akita inu is simply not negotiable.
We do nearly the same with Cedric. My dog's a lab and he doesn't like the heat at all. Heck even the locals don't like it! Cedric cools off with lots of refrigerated water (he has his own pitcher) and he does hang out around the laundry area more - it's significantly cooler than the rest of the house. Yeah, agreed. Cedric does his walks way early in the morning - 5 or 6am to avoid the sun and around 4pm when the heat isn't so bad.
Sadly, with Cedric's level of laziness, it's doubtful he'll get more exercise no matter where I take him. He's a couchie at heart and we learned this when I tried to get him into agility or flyball. Darn thing begged to be given the ball than chase... -.-"
@ violet_in_seville: Nope, not all apartments/condos have built-in AC as the AC is an extra expense. I'm trying to look into a more quiet neighborhood with some trees and greenery near the house to help cool it down but I'd avoid the AC when I can. It weakens the lungs.
Well, I guess then regardless what dog I get, I'm gonna have to live with the shedding. Thankfully, 8 years with a lab has prepped me for that. Yeah, thanks. Way ahead of you on asking other urban dwellers with cold-weather dogs.
JessicaRabbit: I feel your pain. I sweep every room four times. The vacuum cleaner just can't do the job. I'll look into other ways to help cool the dog but I'd like to rely less and less on the AC. Thanks for posting.
Nope, not all apartments/condos have built-in AC as the AC is an extra expense. I'm trying to look into a more quiet neighborhood with some trees and greenery near the house to help cool it down but I'd avoid the AC when I can. It weakens the lungs.
@Titus - Weakens the lungs? Whoever told you that was giving you an incredible line of BS. From a medical standpoint, having an air conditioner can actually improve lung function because it acts as a dehumidifier. And it does not weaken the lungs when taken out of the less humid air and place the person in a more humid environment. It does take the lungs a few minutes to adjust, but that is to be expected when taken from one extreme to the other suddenly.
And I will tell you that from a "happy and healthy" double (and triple) coated dog standpoint, you will need an air conditioner. I have spent some time in some very hot and humid locations with my dogs without air conditioning and I can honestly say they (and myself) were quite miserable. I would never subject a double coated dog to long summers with extreme heat and humidity without air conditioning.
The air quality in air conditioned environments is poor due to the fact that you're just circulating the same air and getting less O2. I've been in airconditioned environs for more than 8 hours a day. I hate it and it doesn't compare to breathing fresh air.
As much as possible, I want to forgo the AC. Why I want to look at urban homes that do/don't have AC and how their dogs adjust. I need a dog that'll be able to do with or without AC.
I know you are still searching for the right breed, are there any breeds that are are native to warm places that interest you? Like some of the african breeds, Basenjis (but I think you said you like big dogs...hmm), Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Thai Ridgeback...those 2 are big, warm weather native breeds. There may be others who would not just tolerate the heat but even relish it? I think you said you like to run..RR's would love to run with you. A greyhound is a large, hot weather dog that likes to run but also can live very happily in an apartment...and they dont really like to get wet and muddy AND they dont shed very much, which would also mesh well with your neatnik side
@Titus - I suppose there must be a difference in western A/C's in the US and what is available in your country. Most (if not all) A/C systems in the US (and in Europe) do not constantly recirculate air, but actually pull air from outside, dehumidify it, cool it, and vent it inside.
I also agree with @WrylyBrindle that perhaps a Rhodesian Ridgeback would be a great breed choice for you. I have met several and they do very well with hot humid weather, shed minimally, and are incredible running partners. Although, I have never met one that lived in an apartment, I am sure that one would do well as long as he or she got enough exercise. AND they are gorgeous dogs... And lion hunters!
Well, you did ask us to give your our thoughts on your possible choices. After reading all this, I concur with what most everyone else is saying: don't get an Akita.
It is too hot, and if you're not going to have A/C for your dog, your dog is going to be miserable. I live in a much less hot and much drier climate, and my Akita is miserable in the summer. He lives for night (which is always cool here--I live in the mountains) and perks up a bit at night. And he loves the snow.
No A/C for a double coated dog is just miserable, and not fair to the dog. These are dogs of the Japanese snow country, and are built for it, with their thick coat. If you subject a dog like this to extreme hot temperatures, with no a/c, then you're not going to have a dog, you're going to have a lethargic rug. It's simply too hot. (I never dreamed that you were proposing to have a dog with NO A/C or I would have said this right away--as Jessica said, that's nonnegotiable!) There will be no chance of the dog getting more exercise than your lab or being active--the dog will be too hot, and at a real risk of heat stroke.
Plus, the dog is going to shed so much you're going to have hair everywhere.
Go with one of the breeds you thought already. Or look into the mastiffs--big dogs, don't always need a lot of exercise so can adjust to apt. life, and yet are short coated. That would be a better bet.
Well, if temp is the only consideration, the best dog for me would be a Canaan dog but the Akita, Rottie and Dobe are first in my list as I've mentioned due to them being readily available.
I'll look into what TheWalrus mentioned about an area for the dog that's removed from the sun + fan for ventilation. Not sure what else I can do but I'll figure something out. Although the AC would be a last resort.
Rhodesian Ridgeback sounds like a great choice! Temperament and activity level are right up your alley. They don't come in white, but neither do dobies and rotties.
RR aren't dogs I normally see here. Heck the Dobe and Rottie aren't even considered pet shop staples as most people here prefer toy breeds. Slim chance I'll find a Rhodesian.
You want to become a breeder out of an apartment? Space may be an issue considering you may have to cycle through a few Akitas before you find two that are healthy enough to consider breeding. You sound like someone who would want to introduce health cert's as a standard for your breeding program. Once you start them you will probably have one or two that won't make the cut with hips etc. trying to rehome a dog is difficult when they have health problems.
I live in a condo with my dogs. I'm not against apartment living. Mine actually get way more exercise than my friend's dogs who live in homes. I over compensate. But I couldn't see myself living with more than two dogs.
@ tjbart17: Well, they are but I've at least seen a few. The Rhodesians - never except conveniently, the internet.
Oh, and by Akita here, please assume AA. I see few JAs here.
Yep, nothing's wrong with the apartment. Cedric and I take to the park. It's not for dogs only and the traffic is horrible but we go there real early when it's quiet and there's not a lot of kids running around. He's careful enough around children but the ones playing tag aren't mindful of whatever they might ram into.
On a side note to everyone worried about the climate here, what are some signs I should watch out for to a dog that isn't adapting too well in this climate? Skin lesions and panting aside?
@tjbart17 - maybe I missed it, but I don't think that the OP has mentioned intentions to breed.
@titus - I'm a bit unclear as to what your priorities are as they seem to have shifted about quite a bit over the course of the thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you're looking for the following things:
- a large breed - a dog from a local breeder/pet shop (no imports) - clean dog and minimal shedding (lower priority) - a dog that does not require a lot of grooming maintenance (lower priority) - an independent dog that can pass CGC (non-negotiable) - a dog that is less food motivated/not prone to obesity - a dog that can do without AC
As I see it, the second, third, and last points are the ones that are potentially problematic.
Point two: If you're looking for a purebred JA, I'm not sure that you'll have an easier time finding one born and bred in the Philippines than any of the other breeds mentioned. For instance, it is much easier to find a Rhodesian Ridgeback than a JA in the States. Regardless of the breed, if you want a dog with a stable temperament that can pass CGC, It would be best to avoid pet shops so I wouldn't use them as a metric for availability.
Point three: Already covered.
Point seven: how high of a priority is this to you? I believe the consensus here is that access to AC for a JA will be non-negotiable regardless of your personal feelings (assuming you prioritize the comfort and happiness of your dog, which does seem important to you). Even in a neighborhood with a little more greenery/little less density, and a separate non-sun intensive, ventilated area, your JA would need access to AC, even if you choose to use it minimally (most folks would advise you to use it generously).
BTW, is the AC a requirement? We've had island-born Akita here that don't really need being airconditioned. The first gen dogs weren't too peachy with the weather here (the first gen huskies brought here would bleed from their noses even with the AC in full swing), but later gen were fully adapted to our climate. The only downside to the island-born dogs is that they are smaller than their imported counterparts.
I also would like to note that I question the ethics of breeders who chose to continue in a particular breed even though the first generation imports were in such pain/discomfort as to bleed from their noses. I'd be highly skeptical of any claims that they prioritize soundness of health and temperament in their breeding program.
Signs of adaptation issues also include lethargy (or general low energy), reduced appetite, and obvious stuff like issues with vomiting, or diarrhea (which happens with dehydration). Look at coat condition (glossy or dull) and for signs of mild dehydration.
[edited for clarification]
Heat stroke is a pretty horrible thing, and can hit hard and fast even when you think you're taking reasonable precautions, especially for puppies. We made that mistake our first summer (in a much less intense environment). When outdoors our pup had ice cubes, lots of shade, lots of water, and she would only be allowed outside to play during cooler times of the day for no more than ten minutes a session. She still ended up with mild heat stroke. This all happened in the course of one weekend and we thought she was fine since she enjoyed her playing so much and because we took what we thought were reasonable precautions.
[/end edit]
You should also check this thread. I believe the unit mentioned is a type available globally, and addresses the concerns you have expressed regarding air conditioning. It seems like it would be useful though pricey.
@shibamistress - sorry, the confusion may be partially my fault. I don 't think @titus is looking to get a dog from a pet shop. I do think she is using the appearance of breeds in pet shops as a metric for general availability in the Philippines though. I was just trying to point out that it's not a good metric. Mostly because the economic model for pet shops skews what they are likely to carry in the same way that some breeds here can be comparatively easy to find a breeder for, but unpopular with pet shops.
RR aren't dogs I normally see here. Heck the Dobe and Rottie aren't even considered pet shop staples as most people here prefer toy breeds. Slim chance I'll find a Rhodesian.
I hope I misunderstood the pet shop thing. Because seriously, buying from a pet shop is about the worst possible option.
Not happening. But a good indication to tell you how easy or hard a dog is to find in your area is if a pet shop restocks them as violet_in_seville says.
@ violet_in_seville: I don't like the sound of that. Seems awful to put dogs in that condition. Let's see what kind of mods/buffers I can do for the heat but if it's really not possible, it's a no-go for either JA or AA regardless who adapts here better.
I also would like to note that I question the ethics of breeders who chose to continue in a particular breed even though the first generation imports were in such pain/discomfort as to bleed from their noses. I'd be highly skeptical of any claims that they prioritize soundness of health and temperament in their breeding program.
No. I don't think I even know that breeder, but it is a question I asked the pet shop owner bec I was wondering how his huskies are able to tolerate the weather here. Then he told me about how the first gen cold weather dogs were brought here. Whoever brought them probably didn't intend to let the dogs suffer but must've thought the AC was a good enough buffer.
I loooove Ridgebacks. I do think that's a smart breed suggestion, @WrylyBrindle.
Meanwhile...
@ curlytails: Well, I have been told by some that they had friends/acquaintances that had all sorts of cold weather dogs that they were able to adjust to city living. I plan to visit these dogs or some of the dogs any local breeder has already sold to before finalizing my decision
[snip]
I'm not convincing myself that the dog is "happy enough". I plan to visit the breeder and other dog owners to see this for myself.
Glad to hear it. I would be curious to know what you are able to observe first-hand, when you're ready to share. Just be aware that it's rather easy to both present things selectively and to hear/see only what you want to see. There is much at stake in presenting oneself as a "good" pet owner (or potential owner) who does justice to one's chosen breed, so you can't always take pet owner testimony at face value. This is one issue I'm finding with my own current research in local pet-keeping practices and canine culture.
Again, I'm not questioning that the dogs are "able to adjust." I see every day how dogs adapt to some pretty amazing circumstances. But adaptation is different from thriving.
Some anecdotal examples that may or may not help your circumstances, but since you're asking about "other tropical areas," I'll share a little of my observations from Taiwan:
Here's a JA puppy I saw hanging out in front of a shop in Taipei. Absolutely adorable, but surprisingly lethargic. This pup was NOT bolting into the street, even though he could at any time. He was so dull that I was wondering if he was sick, or if it was the heat (this was late August; daytime temps were about 35-36C), or perhaps a combination. Yeah, maybe it's just his temperament. But who knows? I would have to observe a lot longer before I could call this a happy, healthy dog.
This is my aunt's dog Dudu, who is either a Shiba or Akita mix. She's about 60 overweight pounds. As a mix, her fur is less plush, but she does have a double coat. It's not so obvious because her coat is what I would describe as poor, due to a combination of climate and inadequate grooming and a very basic, kibble-based diet. She nibbles her paws too, which are pink between the digits, and has a slight odor all the time.
My aunt lives in the country, in a large house, but she doesn't let the dogs inside very often -- and Dudu in particular, because she sheds all the time. When I'm in town though, I let the dogs in, because I'd rather they were with me, and they are housetrained, so why not. However, this is where they usually stay and sleep, in a sheltered, non-air conditioned part of the backyard. Note the cool surfaces:
The physical difference between the native dogs and the imports, even the mixes, is pretty striking to me, as it should be evident in the pictures. I consider native dogs the standard to how well-adapted dogs should look, move, and behave.
Another auntie had an Akita mix who, sadly, passed away last year at about 12 years old. That was a good dog. He was also relatively lethargic in the summer months, but fit enough -- she has ample space to exercise her dogs.
My aunts love their dogs dearly, and they do better than the average Taiwanese owner in terms of vet care and personalized attention. But I still can't compare to how we keep dogs in the States. They pretty much only take in mixes now. We've seen J.A. in their area (again, this is the country, where homes tend to be bigger). She told me they were popular for a while, but then they grow up and people don't really know how to take care of their needs. There was apparently an influx of them in earlier decades too, even in the city -- but the city was far less developed then, and there was more room to roam. I have read historical accounts that claim that the Japanese brought Akitas during the colonial period. One tall tale says that Akitas were imported by the army for military work, but could not adapt to the environment so German Shepherds became the norm here instead (as they were in other Japanese Pacific fronts). Until I see actual historical evidence that they were brought to Taiwan, I am skeptical.
I've spotted one apparently purebred J.A. being walked (very ploddingly) in the city, and one in the country (no pictures). The one in the country was lying down, chained up outside a shop, uneven fur, terribly corpulent. His owner was right there, tending the shop all day and night -- so at least he gets to hang out alongside his people. That's a pretty good life for a dog here. But I think you want to do better than "pretty good," from what you've been saying.
Like @violet_in_seville was saying, lethargy is the biggest problem I see with most examples of large, active, or Nordic breeds in this climate. They're not just being "couch potatoes." They're unwilling to move and behave as their breed should because it's just so damn hot+humid here. Their lethargy IS their way of adapting. I also seldom see double coats that are as naturally gorgeous as the dogs I've witnessed in more temperate climes; if they're plush, it's usually superficial appearances right after grooming, or the dog really IS a pampered pet who stays indoors in A/C all the time.
The lethargy seems to make sense. Desert dwellers sleep at day and become nocturnal creatures bec moving around at day is suicide. This is a bit extreme though.
Yes, I've seen lots of those nice plush coats although majority of dogs who do have coats like that are on all sorts of coat supplements and professional grooming.
The AC is a bit unnatural here. It's more of a luxury here as even in the height of summer months, most people don't have AC and the ones that do turn on the AC for a few hours then just rely on the fan.
If I do manage to get to the breeders' and Akita owners' houses to check on their dogs, I'd be more than happy to share. I'll also check on how much more or less they shed in the tropics. I hate shedding. I'd love to clean less and less of it.
PS. I'm sorry. I can't seem to click with a Rhodesian no matter how seemingly perf it is for my climate.
I completely agree with what @curlytails stated in the above post.
For me, it's not about adaptability. All animals will adapt to their conditions - it's whether or not they will be happy and trive in those conditions.
Just look at the Polar Bears next time you're at the zoo. I don't think "happy". To me, they look miserable. Yes, the water is a nice icy temperature and they can stay in the water to keep cool. But a Polar Bear in Florida, Texas, Philippines, wherever, is misplaced. Those are not the conditions they were meant to live in. They can't stay in the water all the time.
During the summer months here in Toronto, Saigo hates being outdoors. Anything over 25+ and he's looking sad and wants to go back indoors. 20 degrees he lasts about 20-25 minutes and he's hot and tired again.
But you should see him when it's cold outside (-10 to 15 degrees) and you should see him in the snow. He LOVES it, he digs holes, jumps and plays and I can't get him to come in. These are cold weather animals.
So I guess what everyone here is trying to say from their own experience is that a Japanese Akita is not a tropical weather dog. It's probably not the best dog to have as a pet if you live in the Philippines. Is it possible, yes. Is it the best choice and in the interest of the Akita? No.
Honestly, even California (where I live, and where most JA breeders in North America are) requires some adaptation for the dogs. Our summers can get hot, but not extreme; still, for the rest of the year, our climate could be compared with early-mid autumn in areas that have "weather." (LOL what is this weather you speak of?) That means it never truly cools off to the extent that it would in the north or their home country of Japan.
Our dogs never get proper coats, even if left outside at night, unless they're a long coat carrier. Our dogs have shorter, sparse coats uncharacteristic of the breed standard. The same is true in Texas, and usually worse. This is mostly an aesthetic issue, as the dogs are otherwise active and healthy in our environment, not lethargic and miserable as the dogs mentioned in @curlytails post. Our climate doesn't compare with (sub)tropics.
I believe this accounts for the difference in coat between the Japanese Akita and the American Akita, and why between the two I think an American Akita would be better for you. They already have a double coat (instead of the Japanese Akita's triple coat) and its much shorter. They've already made some adaptations. Still, this doesn't change the need for AC for any nordic breed.
Oh, I mentioned before but I'll say it again. Frequency of shedding is based on how much light the dog's coat gets. Sunlight degrades the hairs over time, and eventually the coat must be replaced. If you're in a bright place, like California or Texas, the dog will blow coat significantly more often than somewhere dark and cold. I've never been to the Philippines, but it sounds like a bright place.
If you get a double coated breed and it is absolutely miserable there, be sure to have funds so you can either ship it back to the breeder (if you're importing) or to ship it to someplace with a better climate.
I know that sounds weird, to pay to give away your dog. But you'd have gotten it into that mess and it would be your responsibility to get it out. (Plus no rescue / shelter / person is going to pay to have the dog shipped here (USA) when there are plenty of dogs here who need homes already).
@ tjbart17: Well, they are but I've at least seen a few. The Rhodesians - never except conveniently, the internet.
Oh, and by Akita here, please assume AA. I see few JAs here. [snip]
On a side note to everyone worried about the climate here, what are some signs I should watch out for to a dog that isn't adapting too well in this climate? Skin lesions and panting aside?
The lethargy seems to make sense. Desert dwellers sleep at day and become nocturnal creatures bec moving around at day is suicide. This is a bit extreme though.
Yes, I've seen lots of those nice plush coats although majority of dogs who do have coats like that are on all sorts of coat supplements and professional grooming.
The AC is a bit unnatural here. It's more of a luxury here as even in the height of summer months, most people don't have AC and the ones that do turn on the AC for a few hours then just rely on the fan.
If I do manage to get to the breeders' and Akita owners' houses to check on their dogs, I'd be more than happy to share. I'll also check on how much more or less they shed in the tropics. I hate shedding. I'd love to clean less and less of it.
PS. I'm sorry. I can't seem to click with a Rhodesian no matter how seemingly perf it is for my climate.
I'm a bit confused here. Earlier in the thread you made it sound like Rhodesians were so rare where you lived that you haven't interacted with them before so I'm sort of confused how you can determine if you click with them or not.
It seems like you think the need for air conditioning is a cultural one, and I do understand that in the States, air conditioning is much more a part of daily life than it is in other places, but that's really not why people are telling you that having access to it is non-negotiable if you get an akita.
As for the shedding, I'm pretty certain they will shed more in the tropics. The only reason they might shed less is because they have less coat to shed, due to having an improper coat. See the statements below for reference.
Honestly, even California (where I live, and where most JA breeders in North America are) requires some adaptation for the dogs. Our summers can get hot, but not extreme; still, for the rest of the year, our climate could be compared with early-mid autumn in areas that have "weather." (LOL what is this weather you speak of?) That means it never truly cools off to the extent that it would in the north or their home country of Japan.
Our dogs never get proper coats, even if left outside at night, unless they're a long coat carrier. Our dogs have shorter, sparse coats uncharacteristic of the breed standard. The same is true in Texas, and usually worse. This is mostly an aesthetic issue, as the dogs are otherwise active and healthy in our environment, not lethargic and miserable as the dogs mentioned in @curlytails post. Our climate doesn't compare with (sub)tropics.
I agree with what EVERYONE has posted in this thread, haha.
I just took a Shikoku to the Philippines a few months ago. He's still alive, though I don't know if his full coat will ever come back in. The heat and humidity I experienced there were extreme, and I'm used to Japanese summers. I really did do a double take about how well the Japanese breeds would do in the Philippines once I was bombarded by the heat wave at the airport.
On a side note, thai ridgebacks seem (and look) awesome.
You gave a really detailed list in your intro but I'm still a little unclear as to what you're looking for in a dog. What makes you click with one breed as opposed to another? Are you also checking out breeders and urban dogs from the other breeds that you're considering?
Comments
I researched the average monthly temperatures for the Philippines so that I could have a better understanding of the climate ( source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_the_Philippines ).
The average temperatures are anywhere from between 25-40 degrees ALL YEAR around. These are NOT optimal temperatures for Akitas and I am sure most JA owners here will agree that choosing to raise an Akita in these conditions is cruel and unfair. @curlytails and @shibamistress are spot on with their concerns as well. Specialty food, housing, vet bills etc. are all costs which easily outweigh the cost of the dog and importing fees, etc. On top of this, you'll be living in a condo in the city. Where and when will the dog be getting enough exercise?
Respectfully, I think that you simply do not have the right conditions to raise a happy Akita. You asked us for our opinion and it has been unanimous. Your dog won't be "happy enough" so please stop convincing yourself of that. Do what's good for the dog, not what's good for you.
@ MapleTwinkie: First off, please do not go out of your way to imply I am forcing this decision over my potential dog's best interests or that I'm planning to keep a dog in cruel and unfair circumstances. I have had a dog for 8 years now - he's healthy and well-exercised despite living in an apartment. This is why the size of the unit and its proximity to all necessary amenities (parks, vets, pet supplies stores,etc.) are things I'm considering too.
I'm not convincing myself that the dog is "happy enough". I plan to visit the breeder and other dog owners to see this for myself. Now I'm posting on this forum hoping to glean some info so when these visits do take place, I know what potential problems to look out for, weigh the costs of maintenance for optimal living conditions for my dog, and weigh out other pros and cons.
Then and only then will I make my decision what dog to get.
So. I live in Texas. The summers are brutal, getting up to 110F on some days. (43 celsius). We visit Houston from time to time and the 100% humidity does not affect my JA's coat nor skin. The humidity only affects how much cooling off he can do, so we work around it. The air is full of moisture, which does not let him cool off with this tongue as much as he could if the air was dry.
You know how we manage? Well, you wouldn't take any dog, regardless of breed, out on a day that is 100F outside? No, thats stupid. Same idea with an Akita. Take them out in the mornings and evenings. Give them ice cubes. Let them find a cold hard floor to lay on. Keep them in the AC. Ect...
And the best part?! My Toki is a happy puppy, regardless of the brutal Texas summers we have.
So YES, you can have an Japanese Akita with temperatures between 20C and 40C.
As a side note, Toki has lived in an apartment, loft, and a house. He has done well in all living conditions. Funny how when we lived in a house, he actually got less excersize because i let him have the yard. Now that he and I live in a loft, he actually gets more walks, (and that includes in the texas summer
You also mentioned that you would like a dog that sheds less than your lab. I really think that an akita (or any double, or in this case, triple coated breed) is going to shed significantly more. In a location with high temperatures year round you will not only see the seasonal coat blow, but you will likely see a significant amount of daily shedding.
I'm with @jellyfish on the apartment issue. It should be fine. It just means that you will spend more time than perhaps you might have otherwise exercising with your dog.
@jellyfish - I don't think you can really compare Texas climate to the Philippines. Texas does not have a monsoon season. My father has lived in Houston for a few years and has spent time in the Philippines for a few months at a stretch. While Houston was uncomfortable he did say that the heat in the Philippines was much more intense and much more uncomfortable.
@titus - when you speak with local breeders, I would also ask to be referred to any owners who are also in the same or a similar urban area to you. I'm not sure what the infrastructure looks like where you live, but densely populated cities like New York City act as urban heat islands. Their feedback should be much more applicable to your situation.
Furthermore my air conditioner runs from march until October here and I live in New England.
In the Philippines? Air conditioning for an akita inu is simply not negotiable.
We do nearly the same with Cedric. My dog's a lab and he doesn't like the heat at all. Heck even the locals don't like it! Cedric cools off with lots of refrigerated water (he has his own pitcher) and he does hang out around the laundry area more - it's significantly cooler than the rest of the house. Yeah, agreed. Cedric does his walks way early in the morning - 5 or 6am to avoid the sun and around 4pm when the heat isn't so bad.
Sadly, with Cedric's level of laziness, it's doubtful he'll get more exercise no matter where I take him. He's a couchie at heart and we learned this when I tried to get him into agility or flyball. Darn thing begged to be given the ball than chase... -.-"
@ violet_in_seville: Nope, not all apartments/condos have built-in AC as the AC is an extra expense. I'm trying to look into a more quiet neighborhood with some trees and greenery near the house to help cool it down but I'd avoid the AC when I can. It weakens the lungs.
Well, I guess then regardless what dog I get, I'm gonna have to live with the shedding. Thankfully, 8 years with a lab has prepped me for that. Yeah, thanks. Way ahead of you on asking other urban dwellers with cold-weather dogs.
JessicaRabbit: I feel your pain. I sweep every room four times. The vacuum cleaner just can't do the job. I'll look into other ways to help cool the dog but I'd like to rely less and less on the AC. Thanks for posting.
And I will tell you that from a "happy and healthy" double (and triple) coated dog standpoint, you will need an air conditioner. I have spent some time in some very hot and humid locations with my dogs without air conditioning and I can honestly say they (and myself) were quite miserable. I would never subject a double coated dog to long summers with extreme heat and humidity without air conditioning.
As much as possible, I want to forgo the AC. Why I want to look at urban homes that do/don't have AC and how their dogs adjust. I need a dog that'll be able to do with or without AC.
I also agree with @WrylyBrindle that perhaps a Rhodesian Ridgeback would be a great breed choice for you. I have met several and they do very well with hot humid weather, shed minimally, and are incredible running partners. Although, I have never met one that lived in an apartment, I am sure that one would do well as long as he or she got enough exercise. AND they are gorgeous dogs... And lion hunters!
It is too hot, and if you're not going to have A/C for your dog, your dog is going to be miserable. I live in a much less hot and much drier climate, and my Akita is miserable in the summer. He lives for night (which is always cool here--I live in the mountains) and perks up a bit at night. And he loves the snow.
No A/C for a double coated dog is just miserable, and not fair to the dog. These are dogs of the Japanese snow country, and are built for it, with their thick coat. If you subject a dog like this to extreme hot temperatures, with no a/c, then you're not going to have a dog, you're going to have a lethargic rug. It's simply too hot. (I never dreamed that you were proposing to have a dog with NO A/C or I would have said this right away--as Jessica said, that's nonnegotiable!) There will be no chance of the dog getting more exercise than your lab or being active--the dog will be too hot, and at a real risk of heat stroke.
Plus, the dog is going to shed so much you're going to have hair everywhere.
Go with one of the breeds you thought already. Or look into the mastiffs--big dogs, don't always need a lot of exercise so can adjust to apt. life, and yet are short coated. That would be a better bet.
I'll look into what TheWalrus mentioned about an area for the dog that's removed from the sun + fan for ventilation. Not sure what else I can do but I'll figure something out. Although the AC would be a last resort.
You want to become a breeder out of an apartment? Space may be an issue considering you may have to cycle through a few Akitas before you find two that are healthy enough to consider breeding. You sound like someone who would want to introduce health cert's as a standard for your breeding program. Once you start them you will probably have one or two that won't make the cut with hips etc. trying to rehome a dog is difficult when they have health problems.
I live in a condo with my dogs. I'm not against apartment living. Mine actually get way more exercise than my friend's dogs who live in homes. I over compensate. But I couldn't see myself living with more than two dogs.
Oh, and by Akita here, please assume AA. I see few JAs here.
Yep, nothing's wrong with the apartment. Cedric and I take to the park. It's not for dogs only and the traffic is horrible but we go there real early when it's quiet and there's not a lot of kids running around. He's careful enough around children but the ones playing tag aren't mindful of whatever they might ram into.
On a side note to everyone worried about the climate here, what are some signs I should watch out for to a dog that isn't adapting too well in this climate? Skin lesions and panting aside?
@titus - I'm a bit unclear as to what your priorities are as they seem to have shifted about quite a bit over the course of the thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you're looking for the following things:
- a large breed
- a dog from a local breeder/pet shop (no imports)
- clean dog and minimal shedding (lower priority)
- a dog that does not require a lot of grooming maintenance (lower priority)
- an independent dog that can pass CGC (non-negotiable)
- a dog that is less food motivated/not prone to obesity
- a dog that can do without AC
As I see it, the second, third, and last points are the ones that are potentially problematic.
Point two: If you're looking for a purebred JA, I'm not sure that you'll have an easier time finding one born and bred in the Philippines than any of the other breeds mentioned. For instance, it is much easier to find a Rhodesian Ridgeback than a JA in the States. Regardless of the breed, if you want a dog with a stable temperament that can pass CGC, It would be best to avoid pet shops so I wouldn't use them as a metric for availability.
Point three: Already covered.
Point seven: how high of a priority is this to you? I believe the consensus here is that access to AC for a JA will be non-negotiable regardless of your personal feelings (assuming you prioritize the comfort and happiness of your dog, which does seem important to you). Even in a neighborhood with a little more greenery/little less density, and a separate non-sun intensive, ventilated area, your JA would need access to AC, even if you choose to use it minimally (most folks would advise you to use it generously).
@titus wrote:
I also would like to note that I question the ethics of breeders who chose to continue in a particular breed even though the first generation imports were in such pain/discomfort as to bleed from their noses. I'd be highly skeptical of any claims that they prioritize soundness of health and temperament in their breeding program.
Signs of adaptation issues also include lethargy (or general low energy), reduced appetite, and obvious stuff like issues with vomiting, or diarrhea (which happens with dehydration). Look at coat condition (glossy or dull) and for signs of mild dehydration.
[edited for clarification]
Heat stroke is a pretty horrible thing, and can hit hard and fast even when you think you're taking reasonable precautions, especially for puppies. We made that mistake our first summer (in a much less intense environment). When outdoors our pup had ice cubes, lots of shade, lots of water, and she would only be allowed outside to play during cooler times of the day for no more than ten minutes a session. She still ended up with mild heat stroke. This all happened in the course of one weekend and we thought she was fine since she enjoyed her playing so much and because we took what we thought were reasonable precautions.
[/end edit]
You should also check this thread. I believe the unit mentioned is a type available globally, and addresses the concerns you have expressed regarding air conditioning. It seems like it would be useful though pricey.
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/8771/japanese-air-conditioner#Item_18
@Titus wrote:
@ violet_in_seville: I don't like the sound of that. Seems awful to put dogs in that condition. Let's see what kind of mods/buffers I can do for the heat but if it's really not possible, it's a no-go for either JA or AA regardless who adapts here better. No. I don't think I even know that breeder, but it is a question I asked the pet shop owner bec I was wondering how his huskies are able to tolerate the weather here. Then he told me about how the first gen cold weather dogs were brought here. Whoever brought them probably didn't intend to let the dogs suffer but must've thought the AC was a good enough buffer.
Meanwhile... Glad to hear it. I would be curious to know what you are able to observe first-hand, when you're ready to share. Just be aware that it's rather easy to both present things selectively and to hear/see only what you want to see. There is much at stake in presenting oneself as a "good" pet owner (or potential owner) who does justice to one's chosen breed, so you can't always take pet owner testimony at face value. This is one issue I'm finding with my own current research in local pet-keeping practices and canine culture.
Again, I'm not questioning that the dogs are "able to adjust." I see every day how dogs adapt to some pretty amazing circumstances. But adaptation is different from thriving.
Some anecdotal examples that may or may not help your circumstances, but since you're asking about "other tropical areas," I'll share a little of my observations from Taiwan:
Here's a JA puppy I saw hanging out in front of a shop in Taipei. Absolutely adorable, but surprisingly lethargic. This pup was NOT bolting into the street, even though he could at any time. He was so dull that I was wondering if he was sick, or if it was the heat (this was late August; daytime temps were about 35-36C), or perhaps a combination. Yeah, maybe it's just his temperament. But who knows? I would have to observe a lot longer before I could call this a happy, healthy dog.
This is my aunt's dog Dudu, who is either a Shiba or Akita mix. She's about 60 overweight pounds. As a mix, her fur is less plush, but she does have a double coat. It's not so obvious because her coat is what I would describe as poor, due to a combination of climate and inadequate grooming and a very basic, kibble-based diet. She nibbles her paws too, which are pink between the digits, and has a slight odor all the time.
My aunt lives in the country, in a large house, but she doesn't let the dogs inside very often -- and Dudu in particular, because she sheds all the time. When I'm in town though, I let the dogs in, because I'd rather they were with me, and they are housetrained, so why not.
The physical difference between the native dogs and the imports, even the mixes, is pretty striking to me, as it should be evident in the pictures. I consider native dogs the standard to how well-adapted dogs should look, move, and behave.
Another auntie had an Akita mix who, sadly, passed away last year at about 12 years old. That was a good dog. He was also relatively lethargic in the summer months, but fit enough -- she has ample space to exercise her dogs.
My aunts love their dogs dearly, and they do better than the average Taiwanese owner in terms of vet care and personalized attention. But I still can't compare to how we keep dogs in the States. They pretty much only take in mixes now. We've seen J.A. in their area (again, this is the country, where homes tend to be bigger). She told me they were popular for a while, but then they grow up and people don't really know how to take care of their needs. There was apparently an influx of them in earlier decades too, even in the city -- but the city was far less developed then, and there was more room to roam. I have read historical accounts that claim that the Japanese brought Akitas during the colonial period. One tall tale says that Akitas were imported by the army for military work, but could not adapt to the environment so German Shepherds became the norm here instead (as they were in other Japanese Pacific fronts). Until I see actual historical evidence that they were brought to Taiwan, I am skeptical.
I've spotted one apparently purebred J.A. being walked (very ploddingly) in the city, and one in the country (no pictures). The one in the country was lying down, chained up outside a shop, uneven fur, terribly corpulent. His owner was right there, tending the shop all day and night -- so at least he gets to hang out alongside his people. That's a pretty good life for a dog here. But I think you want to do better than "pretty good," from what you've been saying.
Like @violet_in_seville was saying, lethargy is the biggest problem I see with most examples of large, active, or Nordic breeds in this climate. They're not just being "couch potatoes." They're unwilling to move and behave as their breed should because it's just so damn hot+humid here. Their lethargy IS their way of adapting. I also seldom see double coats that are as naturally gorgeous as the dogs I've witnessed in more temperate climes; if they're plush, it's usually superficial appearances right after grooming, or the dog really IS a pampered pet who stays indoors in A/C all the time.
Yes, I've seen lots of those nice plush coats although majority of dogs who do have coats like that are on all sorts of coat supplements and professional grooming.
The AC is a bit unnatural here. It's more of a luxury here as even in the height of summer months, most people don't have AC and the ones that do turn on the AC for a few hours then just rely on the fan.
If I do manage to get to the breeders' and Akita owners' houses to check on their dogs, I'd be more than happy to share. I'll also check on how much more or less they shed in the tropics. I hate shedding. I'd love to clean less and less of it.
PS. I'm sorry. I can't seem to click with a Rhodesian no matter how seemingly perf it is for my climate.
For me, it's not about adaptability. All animals will adapt to their conditions - it's whether or not they will be happy and trive in those conditions.
Just look at the Polar Bears next time you're at the zoo. I don't think "happy". To me, they look miserable. Yes, the water is a nice icy temperature and they can stay in the water to keep cool. But a Polar Bear in Florida, Texas, Philippines, wherever, is misplaced. Those are not the conditions they were meant to live in. They can't stay in the water all the time.
During the summer months here in Toronto, Saigo hates being outdoors. Anything over 25+ and he's looking sad and wants to go back indoors. 20 degrees he lasts about 20-25 minutes and he's hot and tired again.
But you should see him when it's cold outside (-10 to 15 degrees) and you should see him in the snow. He LOVES it, he digs holes, jumps and plays and I can't get him to come in. These are cold weather animals.
So I guess what everyone here is trying to say from their own experience is that a Japanese Akita is not a tropical weather dog. It's probably not the best dog to have as a pet if you live in the Philippines. Is it possible, yes. Is it the best choice and in the interest of the Akita? No.
Our dogs never get proper coats, even if left outside at night, unless they're a long coat carrier. Our dogs have shorter, sparse coats uncharacteristic of the breed standard. The same is true in Texas, and usually worse. This is mostly an aesthetic issue, as the dogs are otherwise active and healthy in our environment, not lethargic and miserable as the dogs mentioned in @curlytails post. Our climate doesn't compare with (sub)tropics.
I believe this accounts for the difference in coat between the Japanese Akita and the American Akita, and why between the two I think an American Akita would be better for you. They already have a double coat (instead of the Japanese Akita's triple coat) and its much shorter. They've already made some adaptations. Still, this doesn't change the need for AC for any nordic breed.
Oh, I mentioned before but I'll say it again. Frequency of shedding is based on how much light the dog's coat gets. Sunlight degrades the hairs over time, and eventually the coat must be replaced. If you're in a bright place, like California or Texas, the dog will blow coat significantly more often than somewhere dark and cold. I've never been to the Philippines, but it sounds like a bright place.
If you get a double coated breed and it is absolutely miserable there, be sure to have funds so you can either ship it back to the breeder (if you're importing) or to ship it to someplace with a better climate.
I know that sounds weird, to pay to give away your dog. But you'd have gotten it into that mess and it would be your responsibility to get it out. (Plus no rescue / shelter / person is going to pay to have the dog shipped here (USA) when there are plenty of dogs here who need homes already).
It seems like you think the need for air conditioning is a cultural one, and I do understand that in the States, air conditioning is much more a part of daily life than it is in other places, but that's really not why people are telling you that having access to it is non-negotiable if you get an akita.
As for the shedding, I'm pretty certain they will shed more in the tropics. The only reason they might shed less is because they have less coat to shed, due to having an improper coat. See the statements below for reference.
@poeticdragon wrote: @thewalrus wrote:
On a side note, thai ridgebacks seem (and look) awesome.
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/165716#Comment_165716
[edited to add]
You gave a really detailed list in your intro but I'm still a little unclear as to what you're looking for in a dog. What makes you click with one breed as opposed to another? Are you also checking out breeders and urban dogs from the other breeds that you're considering?