Yes, and of course GSDs vary in size as well. I had a big one--he was about 100 pounds. I haven't seen a coyote his size, but I've seen coyotes as big as smaller GSDs. And since I've seen these coyotes up close, much closer than I'd like to,personally, and since the big male seems to be local and I've seen him repeatedly, then I'm pretty sure of his size.
Gen, that's pretty scary about being stalked by the mountain lion.
We do have mountain lions here too, but they don't seem to be the problem they are in CA.
And of course we do have lots of bears, but the bears are on the small side.
Gathering from the wordvomited data with a lack of what your gathered conclusion was from it other than "what?" That you are disbelieving that coyotes could become GSD sized yet it was you who initally brought up the point that eastern eastern coyotes run larger.
Your data states before all of the the measurements that that coyotes typically stay within a range. Again like dog breeds its an average trait. So there will always be exceptions. I believe @shibamistress did infact see a GSD coyote and as she states there is a surprising lack of indepth data on on coyotes, especially in recent times.
So if you made those posts to express how aghast you were at the size of her local coyote pack so be it, they are probably one of the top predators in her area but I wouldn't discredit the possibility of large coyotes unless you have done the accurate population studies on the different regional specimens.
I know that , I'm just surprised that they are that big on average! Plus I didn't know if she lived on the west coast or the east coast. Sorry to be rude.
I agree with @cdenney... On the east coast there are many scientifically documented cases of larger coyotes that are similar in size to a GSD, weighing between 65 and 90 pounds.
As for @tarokun - You keep asking a lot of personal questions to forum members where we no absolutely nothing about you. Why not post a proper introduction allowing us to get to know you?
Sorry I did post a new intro. Also I think that those 90 pound ones are coydogs or coywolves, sorry but I need some proof for that one.
@tarokun - DNA testing has been done. Contact your local Game Commission or Forestry Dept. I am sure they would be happy to provide you with the evidence that you are looking for.
What's interesting to me from this is that by Eastern Coyote, we're actually talking about NORTHeastern coyote, because Western coyotes are what lives in the south east. and by "crossed with wolves," what is meant is with the smaller Red wolf, which lives in eastern Canada, not the big gray wolves or Timberwolves of the north central and west.
While coyotes can breed with dogs, the second generation usually fails due to the inappropriate timing of births given the doglike heat cycles of a coyote-dog hybrid.
This page says the NE 'coywolves' weigh 35- 55 lbs- that's Matsu size, plus more, but less than Sage, however I also remember how surprised I was to learn that my friend's malamutes- which looked HUGE!- only weighed the same as Reilly: 75 and 80 lbs. under the fluff.
(not a perfect comparison photo because Reilly is farther away than Cal and Moby, but dont they look much bigger? They are fluffy, and light colored- which looks bigger to our eyes- and Rei is dark colored, smooth and muscle-dense, evidently.)
So anecdotally, we can guess all we want about how big coyotes we see are but we might not be very right. I have seen very few coyotes, and only from a moving car, so I cannot speculate, but defer to the guy tranq'ing and weighing them. A coyote x gsd mix could be a *very* big, and less-afraid animal, but would not represent the species of coyote east or west since it doesn't keep genes in the pool.
Well said -- coat, musculature, and bone thickness have a lot of affect on apparent size. I have dogs that way the same as each other or as dogs my friend have, but look dramatically different in size. Even dogs the same height can have different weights and apparent sizes, like my two males.
Look at these easterns red saddle dark albino black black and tan and this huge one. 115 pounds! Yeah I think that they get a whole lot bigger than I thought. These things are huge. I wish we could keep these big ones in zoos. Whelp my kindle is dying so I got to go.
You guys are all scaring me, coyotes haven't existed in my area for at least 50yrs and suddenly we are having recent sightings. I mean, they are a cool species, but there really isn't anywhere for them to go besides people's backyards.
I think a LOT of supposed coyote sightings are just stray dogs. Some may be coydogs but.... Think about it. How many people think our Nihon Ken are wolves, foxes, coyotes, hyenas, etc? People are dumb and can't tell a wolf or a coyote from a GSD or a husky. (Most people. Not saying anyone on this forum had a false sighting.)
I think a LOT of supposed coyote sightings are just stray dogs. Some may be coydogs but.... Think about it. How many people think our Nihon Ken are wolves, foxes, coyotes, hyenas, etc? People are dumb and can't tell a wolf or a coyote from a GSD or a husky. (Most people. Not saying anyone on this forum had a false sighting.)
Actually, the DEC has confirmed the sightings and agree that the pictures are of that of a coyote and not a stray dog. There are some people who are starting to wonder if the NY gov has unofficially introduced coyote into the area as we are severely lacking in predators. The only "big predators" we have are fox, which are dieing out due to a mange outbreak, along with raccoon and feral cats.
Me and my son got a nice coyote couple weeks back. I do have to say that they are beautiful animals but they wreak havoc on other animals especially on young fawns and game bird poults. I been watching this family of coyotes that has left the entire valley floor deer free now for 6 months.
Lol, I don't speak for anyone else, but I could immediately see the difference between the coyotes I saw and a dog. The body position and gait was different. They move so fast without appearing to try at all.
The coyotes are probably more common than people think in suburban settings. They are as opportunistic as raccoons and will eat anything from trash to pet foods to small critters to actual pets. And with their normal solitary nature and ability to slink in and out of places, they can live anywhere they can find food.
I'm glad I'm on the west coast though. Ours are scary enough, but those north/east coyotes are something else!
I haven't seen a coyote here (southeastern Michigan) in years, but I know they're here. There are sightings of them frequently in wooded areas and often enough in the suburbs (and even more overtly urban) areas as well. I recall a story I was told by a local woman with Malamutes that she once had a coyote follow her and her dogs through the woods a short distance when she was trail running with her dogs some years ago.
There at least used to be a coyote den site in one of the parks around here, too. That was quite a few years ago, but I imagine they're probably still around there somewhere. I believe the majority of the coyotes around here are within the average--not huge, but also bigger than an average Kai.
My aunt and uncle hit one with their minivan years ago. My cousins were shocked by how much bigger it was than they had expected, so that my then-ten-year-old cousin was absolutely convinced they had found a wolf in the Lower Peninsula.
I hope that I can someday try some form of hunting with my future dog(s). I'm dogless at the moment, though.
I saw some show on them how this researcher uses dogs to track the lion for his research and big cougars they found..
I've found a coyote or fox den in the woods on my property. I have yet had issue with them so I leave them alone..
I'm surprised my neighbor's dachshund hasn't fallen prey to the coyotes. They leave the dog on a tie out to go potty! I don't think they hang outside with the dog either.. They do it at night and day.
I've seen a litter of coyote pups playing with some ice bag they found the kind you get at front of stores... they were playing tug o war. I saw at least 5 pups? I got a pic of one running away, but not the whole group my guess mom or dad was in the woods watching or high grass after I got picture I retreated and walked in the first field away from that area.
The coyotes at wolf park don't seem too big maybe shikoku size maybe smaller? I need to ask the staff if they know their size or not. I don't think they get chance to weigh them unless they were sick and needed to be sedated.
The coyotes I've seen which were only three sightings one really close another was very far running away from me when I saw it and another while on my mower mowing the trails it came out of the high grass and ran towards the woods.
The one I saw really close was beautiful coarse deadly too, but it ran off then I yelled at it. I figured yelling at it would make it more afraid of people.. I had Saya and Bella, but they were smelling the ground. Maybe the coyote came through so they smelled it's scent.
Other encounter was at night I took Saya out to potty and went back inside to get flash light since it was dark. Saya peed right away and I shone my lights around like usual. I usually see a rabbit, cat, coon, opossum, or fox I only saw a fox in the yard once coming back from the camp area to the house it was by the trees.
Anyways I saw two coyote eyes off on the trail entrances to first field. They were very far off where I was by the house right by the grass.
Saya doesn't seem to want to interact with coyotes which is good if I hang on the back porch or front porch she hears them yiping at the train or police siren Saya comes close to me which I reward her. She's always on leash at night just to be safe..
I seen badger going from the pond to the woods. Brother saw one in the woods and I saw badger tracks in the snow even looked it up and sure enough they fit the shape..
I also saw a den that was bit different from the coyote den.
I do enjoy living in country sadly I do notice more and more farmland being for sale.
I sure hope none of the farmland near me is ever sold I'd hate for random cookie cutter houses to be put up, walmart starbucks or apartments..
Poor deer, fox, badger, coyotes, and birds need homes.. Also our vulnerable eastern box turtle. I got tons of pics of these box turtles as babies, adults and them laying eggs!
I used to see a pheasant or some type of game bird or quail? I'm not sure on walks it coarse would run away when it heard me so hard to get a good picture of it. Since the houses were built in that one area I haven't seen it.
I love birds taking pics or listening to them the quail/pheasant was neat to see on my walks..
I don't do any hunting though Saya has treed multiple squirrels and she shows enthusiasm for that. she also treed a juvenile coon who was eating my pears..
Times she done it was not squirrel season so I couldn't do anything, but she got very yummy reward her dinner of meat..
She listens well off leash, but we mainly just enjoy our walks and hikes. She loves exploring the woods while I get fire wood and clear the woods so my walking path is nicer..
She was first to tell me there was groundhogs under my shed.. I later found out via them eating my tomato then seeing one.
Once I saw it and remember Saya smelling under the shed I figured she smelled it under there.
I consider her my all around companion she helps find mice nests in the wood pile and shed sometimes.
I love researching how dogs are used with hunting though.
I might eventually try squirrel hunting with Saya maybe next year maybe not depends..
That's cool about seeing the coyote babies playing! And a badger! Man, that's super cool! I've only seen a wild badger once in my life.....
I'm not feeling the coyote love (though the pups sounds cute)......just was walking on the street right in front of our yard, and noticed the neighborhood dogs were barking, but I didn't see anything, and I thought, huh, wonder if there is a coyote somewhere, and then I just saw this blur of grey rushing at us from the woods. I picked her up really quick and stuffed her in my jacket and got out the pepper spray, but it didn't come out of the woods. I could see it running back and forth really fast, though, and hear it too.....But I just walked as fast I could up to our gate.....
If it was a dog, it would have come out of the woods--and I'm unfortunately quite familiar, now, with the coyote pacing us through the woods.....
I've got to say, it's getting so it doesn't even feel that safe to walk in the neighborhood. It's true it was getting on to dusk (but not yet!) today, but I walked at 3 yesterday and could hear them howling and yipping like crazy.
Re: size.....I wasn't "measuring" by weight but by percieved body size when I said they were like GSD sized. And I had a 110 pound GSD--these coyotes are certainly not that size. More like the height/size of a 70-80 pound dog (but of course they could weigh much less--how do I know?). Most of them are smaller, but bigger than my 40 pound Kai Ken. They may still BE in the 40 pound range, but are taller/lankier.
For all I know, the big ones I keep seeing are simply the same big one, which could be a mix or something....I suppose it's possible it's a coywolf or something, not that there are supposed to be any wolves this far north in NM. But I have seen some bigger ones up by Santa Fe too, and those were not the same big neighborhood coyote.
@shibamistress does walking Oskar keep them at bay more? Maybe Oskar and Zora walks together? Plus it will give them time to bond with out her being a PIA with him.
I can't take them both by myself. Oskar's a serious handful on the leash, because he's pretty dog reactive. And he's big, and has to be handled carefully because of his neck/spine issues, so I can't handle him and her (and actually, they're not to that stage yet anyway...he's seen her in her crate, and he's sniffed her while we're carrying her, but that's it.)
I hunt my jindo with my hounds and cur dog. We hunt bigger game like mountain lion but she will run a rabbit or fox if she gets a chance. She has caught rabbit before and has caught birds. She is really fast and it's neat to watch her work
Does your area have a coyote season or any type of control to help manage it?
One time mom was raspberry picking and darn tornado sirens were being tested.. Coyotes love yipping and stuff when they hear any kind of siren or train..
They were making noise.. Mom screamed at them and they stopped. I heard mom all the way in the house and she was in the first field! I ran to check on her and she was fine.
Eventually she wants to get herself a gun for protection just in case and to practice with..
We had a coyote encounter last night. Conker was out chasing a raccoon out of my trash (which is now scattered EVERYWHERE) when a coyote decided to show up after Conker got the coon treed. Conker sounded the alarm which roused the other three dogs to the fenceline. The coyote retreated slightly then began to bark at them and prance around in a playful manner. I quickly called the dogs in then went out and yelled at the coyote, but it wouldn't leave. It kept prancing and barking, so I rummaged around for my shotgun and shells, found them, but by the time I was ready to shoot, it had bugged out. Normally I am not aggressive towards coyotes, In think they are cool and like having them around. However, based on it's behavior and fearlessness of my dogs and me, it appeared to have been trying to bait my dogs out into the woods, which is not cool at all. So, if this coyote comes back tonight, I'll be ready for it. This happened at 4 am, which is why it took me so long to find the shotgun. I was still half asleep.
Saya says she is jealous of Conker for treeing that racoon.. She loves treeing them for some reason.. only did it two times, but it was enough for her to know their scent.. Luckily haven't had any raccoons in the yard anymore..
There was a dead one in the yard not sure if it got braised by a car and wandered in the yard and died of trauma, coyote killed it, or dog killed it. Saya left it alone when I told her to stay she stood there watching me remove the animal out of my yard. She did smell the spot it was laying on.
Saya has two voles killed under her belt. One couple years ago and another few weeks ago. I was cleaning the garage out to ready for winter Saya and Bella were in the yard exploring and wandering around. All sudden I heard this chirping squeeky noise and I see Saya looking at this vole that has it's head up chattering and ready to defend.. Saya caught it and tossed it in the air once and then shook it the second time. Who needs a cat when you got a dogcat.. She's good about finding rodents, voles or mice this is second time catching one usually they escape. She'll find nests for me in wood piles or the shed.
Luckily never encountered a opossum I take the dogs out to potty on leash since I have no fence don't want a dog getting skunk since they seem to come about at night.
When I lived in Louisiana our past dogs two boxer and catahoula mix cornered an opossum. we heard the commotion so we came out lights on and found the opossum playing dead. once it played dead the dogs lost interest in it for a bit and we were able to get them in the house. Next day the opossum was gone. Crazy how dead they look when they play possum..
I like coyotes, they are spiffy and fun to watch, but ones that mess with my dogs are dead if they get close enough. I take that quite seriously.
The coyote has not been back yet. There was no contact between the coyote and my dogs, it was about 25 feet from the fence, which is closer than I'd prefer.
Glad your dogs are safe. I've been lucky and so far coyotes near me have ran off.
I have more issues with neighbor's cats and stray cats.. Meowing at night very annoyingly. I have to yell at them to shut up. I want to sit on my swing listening to silence or to the crickets, owls or whatever wild animal not dumb cat who forgot where it lives.
Comments
Gen, that's pretty scary about being stalked by the mountain lion.
We do have mountain lions here too, but they don't seem to be the problem they are in CA.
And of course we do have lots of bears, but the bears are on the small side.
I know that , I'm just surprised that they are that big on average! Plus I didn't know if she lived on the west coast or the east coast. Sorry to be rude.
http://www.coywolf.org/coywolf-basic-info/
What's interesting to me from this is that by Eastern Coyote, we're actually talking about NORTHeastern coyote, because Western coyotes are what lives in the south east. and by "crossed with wolves," what is meant is with the smaller Red wolf, which lives in eastern Canada, not the big gray wolves or Timberwolves of the north central and west.
While coyotes can breed with dogs, the second generation usually fails due to the inappropriate timing of births given the doglike heat cycles of a coyote-dog hybrid.
This page says the NE 'coywolves' weigh 35- 55 lbs- that's Matsu size, plus more, but less than Sage, however I also remember how surprised I was to learn that my friend's malamutes- which looked HUGE!- only weighed the same as Reilly: 75 and 80 lbs. under the fluff.
(not a perfect comparison photo because Reilly is farther away than Cal and Moby, but dont they look much bigger? They are fluffy, and light colored- which looks bigger to our eyes- and Rei is dark colored, smooth and muscle-dense, evidently.)
So anecdotally, we can guess all we want about how big coyotes we see are but we might not be very right. I have seen very few coyotes, and only from a moving car, so I cannot speculate, but defer to the guy tranq'ing and weighing them. A coyote x gsd mix could be a *very* big, and less-afraid animal, but would not represent the species of coyote east or west since it doesn't keep genes in the pool.
The coyotes are probably more common than people think in suburban settings. They are as opportunistic as raccoons and will eat anything from trash to pet foods to small critters to actual pets. And with their normal solitary nature and ability to slink in and out of places, they can live anywhere they can find food.
I'm glad I'm on the west coast though. Ours are scary enough, but those north/east coyotes are something else!
There at least used to be a coyote den site in one of the parks around here, too. That was quite a few years ago, but I imagine they're probably still around there somewhere. I believe the majority of the coyotes around here are within the average--not huge, but also bigger than an average Kai.
My aunt and uncle hit one with their minivan years ago. My cousins were shocked by how much bigger it was than they had expected, so that my then-ten-year-old cousin was absolutely convinced they had found a wolf in the Lower Peninsula.
I hope that I can someday try some form of hunting with my future dog(s). I'm dogless at the moment, though.
I saw some show on them how this researcher uses dogs to track the lion for his research and big cougars they found..
I've found a coyote or fox den in the woods on my property. I have yet had issue with them so I leave them alone..
I'm surprised my neighbor's dachshund hasn't fallen prey to the coyotes. They leave the dog on a tie out to go potty! I don't think they hang outside with the dog either.. They do it at night and day.
I've seen a litter of coyote pups playing with some ice bag they found the kind you get at front of stores... they were playing tug o war. I saw at least 5 pups? I got a pic of one running away, but not the whole group my guess mom or dad was in the woods watching or high grass after I got picture I retreated and walked in the first field away from that area.
The coyotes at wolf park don't seem too big maybe shikoku size maybe smaller? I need to ask the staff if they know their size or not. I don't think they get chance to weigh them unless they were sick and needed to be sedated.
The coyotes I've seen which were only three sightings one really close another was very far running away from me when I saw it and another while on my mower mowing the trails it came out of the high grass and ran towards the woods.
The one I saw really close was beautiful coarse deadly too, but it ran off then I yelled at it. I figured yelling at it would make it more afraid of people.. I had Saya and Bella, but they were smelling the ground. Maybe the coyote came through so they smelled it's scent.
Other encounter was at night I took Saya out to potty and went back inside to get flash light since it was dark. Saya peed right away and I shone my lights around like usual. I usually see a rabbit, cat, coon, opossum, or fox I only saw a fox in the yard once coming back from the camp area to the house it was by the trees.
Anyways I saw two coyote eyes off on the trail entrances to first field. They were very far off where I was by the house right by the grass.
Saya doesn't seem to want to interact with coyotes which is good if I hang on the back porch or front porch she hears them yiping at the train or police siren Saya comes close to me which I reward her. She's always on leash at night just to be safe..
I seen badger going from the pond to the woods. Brother saw one in the woods and I saw badger tracks in the snow even looked it up and sure enough they fit the shape..
I also saw a den that was bit different from the coyote den.
I do enjoy living in country sadly I do notice more and more farmland being for sale.
I sure hope none of the farmland near me is ever sold I'd hate for random cookie cutter houses to be put up, walmart starbucks or apartments..
Poor deer, fox, badger, coyotes, and birds need homes.. Also our vulnerable eastern box turtle. I got tons of pics of these box turtles as babies, adults and them laying eggs!
I used to see a pheasant or some type of game bird or quail? I'm not sure on walks it coarse would run away when it heard me so hard to get a good picture of it. Since the houses were built in that one area I haven't seen it.
I love birds taking pics or listening to them the quail/pheasant was neat to see on my walks..
I don't do any hunting though Saya has treed multiple squirrels and she shows enthusiasm for that. she also treed a juvenile coon who was eating my pears..
Times she done it was not squirrel season so I couldn't do anything, but she got very yummy reward her dinner of meat..
She listens well off leash, but we mainly just enjoy our walks and hikes. She loves exploring the woods while I get fire wood and clear the woods so my walking path is nicer..
She was first to tell me there was groundhogs under my shed..
Once I saw it and remember Saya smelling under the shed I figured she smelled it under there.
I consider her my all around companion she helps find mice nests in the wood pile and shed sometimes.
I love researching how dogs are used with hunting though.
I might eventually try squirrel hunting with Saya maybe next year maybe not depends..
I'm not feeling the coyote love (though the pups sounds cute)......just was walking on the street right in front of our yard, and noticed the neighborhood dogs were barking, but I didn't see anything, and I thought, huh, wonder if there is a coyote somewhere, and then I just saw this blur of grey rushing at us from the woods. I picked her up really quick and stuffed her in my jacket and got out the pepper spray, but it didn't come out of the woods. I could see it running back and forth really fast, though, and hear it too.....But I just walked as fast I could up to our gate.....
If it was a dog, it would have come out of the woods--and I'm unfortunately quite familiar, now, with the coyote pacing us through the woods.....
I've got to say, it's getting so it doesn't even feel that safe to walk in the neighborhood. It's true it was getting on to dusk (but not yet!) today, but I walked at 3 yesterday and could hear them howling and yipping like crazy.
Re: size.....I wasn't "measuring" by weight but by percieved body size when I said they were like GSD sized. And I had a 110 pound GSD--these coyotes are certainly not that size. More like the height/size of a 70-80 pound dog (but of course they could weigh much less--how do I know?). Most of them are smaller, but bigger than my 40 pound Kai Ken. They may still BE in the 40 pound range, but are taller/lankier.
For all I know, the big ones I keep seeing are simply the same big one, which could be a mix or something....I suppose it's possible it's a coywolf or something, not that there are supposed to be any wolves this far north in NM. But I have seen some bigger ones up by Santa Fe too, and those were not the same big neighborhood coyote.
Does your area have a coyote season or any type of control to help manage it?
One time mom was raspberry picking and darn tornado sirens were being tested.. Coyotes love yipping and stuff when they hear any kind of siren or train..
They were making noise.. Mom screamed at them and they stopped. I heard mom all the way in the house and she was in the first field! I ran to check on her and she was fine.
Eventually she wants to get herself a gun for protection just in case and to practice with..
I hope you guys stay safe.
Conker was out chasing a raccoon out of my trash (which is now scattered EVERYWHERE) when a coyote decided to show up after Conker got the coon treed. Conker sounded the alarm which roused the other three dogs to the fenceline. The coyote retreated slightly then began to bark at them and prance around in a playful manner. I quickly called the dogs in then went out and yelled at the coyote, but it wouldn't leave. It kept prancing and barking, so I rummaged around for my shotgun and shells, found them, but by the time I was ready to shoot, it had bugged out.
Normally I am not aggressive towards coyotes, In think they are cool and like having them around. However, based on it's behavior and fearlessness of my dogs and me, it appeared to have been trying to bait my dogs out into the woods, which is not cool at all. So, if this coyote comes back tonight, I'll be ready for it.
This happened at 4 am, which is why it took me so long to find the shotgun. I was still half asleep.
There was a dead one in the yard not sure if it got braised by a car and wandered in the yard and died of trauma, coyote killed it, or dog killed it. Saya left it alone when I told her to stay she stood there watching me remove the animal out of my yard. She did smell the spot it was laying on.
Saya has two voles killed under her belt. One couple years ago and another few weeks ago. I was cleaning the garage out to ready for winter Saya and Bella were in the yard exploring and wandering around. All sudden I heard this chirping squeeky noise and I see Saya looking at this vole that has it's head up chattering and ready to defend.. Saya caught it and tossed it in the air once and then shook it the second time. Who needs a cat when you got a dogcat..
She's good about finding rodents, voles or mice this is second time catching one usually they escape. She'll find nests for me in wood piles or the shed.
Luckily never encountered a opossum I take the dogs out to potty on leash since I have no fence don't want a dog getting skunk since they seem to come about at night.
When I lived in Louisiana our past dogs two boxer and catahoula mix cornered an opossum. we heard the commotion so we came out lights on and found the opossum playing dead. once it played dead the dogs lost interest in it for a bit and we were able to get them in the house. Next day the opossum was gone. Crazy how dead they look when they play possum..
The coyote has not been back yet. There was no contact between the coyote and my dogs, it was about 25 feet from the fence, which is closer than I'd prefer.
I have more issues with neighbor's cats and stray cats.. Meowing at night very annoyingly. I have to yell at them to shut up. I want to sit on my swing listening to silence or to the crickets, owls or whatever wild animal not dumb cat who forgot where it lives.