Do you have issues with your Intact dog? *Rant*

Comments

• Losech

  February 2014 edited February 2014

  My neutered Shiba is a jerk, and that's putting it very lightly. My intact Hokkaido has few dog-dog social skills, he's pushy in-your-face but it's got absolutely nothing to do with his balls. He's an adolescent teenager. I don't go to dog parks anymore, too many stupid people and stupid dogs. Bedsides neither of my Nihon Ken are dog park material, and my other two don't play (really, they don't play) so it's just not a thing I do.
  
  When people or other dogs get obnoxious just leave. It's not worth your dog getting hurt.
• MapleTwinkie

  February 2014

  Yeah, we always leave right away. My criticism was directed more at the owners (because there are nice people who know their dogs are jerks and do apologize).
  
  I learned that it doesn't really have much to do with balls, but the odds are higher if balls are present. Those are just my observations LOL
• Calia

  February 2014

  I have a shiba who absolutely hates most intact males, and will in a similar fashion (aggressive humping that could lead to a fight). He's generally good at dog parks, but I guess the extra hormones an intact males will put him on edge. So long as the owner of the intact dog doesn't try to talk me into CMing my shiba, then I'll remain civil and take him for a walk outside the dog park instead. Though I can't tell you how many times these people want me to hold him against the ground and force him to suffer getting his crotch sniffed by other dogs, those kind of stupid suggestions will get a snarky response before leaving.
  
  I rarely go to the dog park now, and generally only go when it's mostly empty or to ones that aren't very popular. I've gotten sick of all of the stupid people so it really hasn't been worth going.
• PoetikDragon

  February 2014

  Dog parks are generally a bad idea, just my .02. Just because your dog is great doesn't mean someone else's is. Just because you are a responsible owner doesn't mean someone else is. Just because you're observant and read canine body language doesn't mean someone else can. And just because your dog has vaccines against one strain of a disease, doesn't mean the other strains wont be present. Its just not worth it.
• ThreeFish231118

  February 2014

  People are quick to blame whether or not your dog is altered. In all honesty there are so many different factors that trigger this behavior. It can depend on the age of the dogs, the manners of the dogs, the energy level of the dogs, the number of dogs that are present, etc. Dogs also are constantly sending signals to one another that are almost undetectable by us so who knows what they are communicating to one another. Also, humping is not necessarily always about dominance. Unfortunately people think they know it all and you are stuck with this criticism.
  
  I don't go to dog parks where there are other dogs. I go to parks where I can be with my dogs and they can safely run around off leash but if I spot another dog owner I round up my pups and put them back on their leashes and we leave.
• BearMom

  February 2014

  Not all dog owners who say that their neutered dog has problems with intact dogs are being jerks or looking for random excuses for their dog's behavior. Yes, many neutered dogs don't have problems with other intact dogs...but a good percentage do. Your observation of the odds being higher in such incidents is not a coincidence.
  
  As others have pointed out, there are other factors that can trigger this behavior but you cannot discount testosterone or lack of it as being a real factor. When you bring an intact dog in a group of neutered dogs, the chemistry of the group changes...literally. It doesn't guarantee that aggressive or dominant behavior will result, but the real potential is there. I've seen this through my own experience and talking with doggy daycares, dog walkers and behaviorists/trainers.
  
  Since you have a random sampling of dogs at dog parks these incidents are unavoidable if you have an intact dog, especially as they mature. Also, neutered dogs that will give an intact puppy a "pass" may not give them the same leeway when they mature.
  
  I've been on both sides of the fence. My male was attacked frequently by neutered dogs who had issues with him being intact, especially after he turned 8 months. After neutering at 14 months, HE was the one who became intolerant with most intact dogs.
• omgtain

  February 2014

  People are quick to blame for any reason.. Your dog is too old, too young, too big, too small, has balls, lacks them, is too passive, is too pushy, too much energy.. no one likes to admit that their dog is the problem, or that their dog is a result of their lack of training and leadership.
  
  Instead of blaming others these owners need to be proactive.
• BradA1878

  February 2014 edited February 2014

  Also, humping is not necessarily always about dominance.

  Correction: Humping is NEVER about dominance. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
  

  Once in a while, there'll be that dominant dog with no balls that starts picking on Saigo ( pushing him, getting in his face, knocking him down when running and humping with biting) and they eventually get into a fight. Almost always, the other owner always asks "Is your dog neutered" and I'll reply "No", and they'll say smugly "...THAT's WHY!".

  Again, this has nothing to do with dominance. IMHO a dog reacting like that to your intact dog is probably over stimulated by your dog's testosterone levels and doesn't know how to deal with it. And eventually it tips into a conflict.
  
  In an ocean of neutered male dogs, the intact dog stands out due to his increased testosterone. Neutered male dogs, and spayed female dogs, who have not been socialized around intact dogs, can act inappropriately when they meet an intact dog.
  
  Also, intact dogs actually sexually mature, and this changes their personality. Dogs neutered early do not do this, and therefore have a puppy-like temperament most of their life. Other neutered dogs may not know how to deal with this, and that can cause conflict too.
  
  An intact dog actually has less chance of fighting with other male dogs as the higher level of testosterone in their body triggers certain behavioral patterns which sole purpose is to REDUCE conflict. Growling, stiff posture, lip licking, piloerection... These are all communication "flags" that tell the other dogs that the dogs displaying these patterns is not comfortable with the current situation. A properly socialized, and socially astute, dog who sees these "flags" from another dog should seek to reduce the tension, and therefore REDUCE the risk of conflict.
  
  I'd put my money on it that Saigo is doing these exact same behavioral patterns when said rude dogs starts to "pick" on him. When you see Saigo doing this, do him a favor and call him to you away from the other dogs - putting space between the two of them.
  
  Part of our job as dog owners is to step up to the plate and stand up for our dogs, even if it's uncomfortable.
• rikumom

  February 2014

  My neutered, near 13-year-old shiba male has issues w/ intact dogs. Never mind that he used to be dog aggressive, he's semi-blind and deaf now, but intact dogs trigger strange behavior in the old one. If we're anywhere near the intact silver lab in the neighborhood, he actually wants to trail and follow him (on leash of course), as if to he wants to go pick a fight. The other dog did nothing to deserve Riku's attention, except he has balls.
  
  My guess is, by keeping balls on Saigo, you'll periodically get unwanted attention from other dogs wherever you take him.
• MapleTwinkie

  February 2014

  Thanks everyone for your response!
  We love the dog park (which is really more of a trail system than it is a park) but we'll stay away from the meanie dogs.
  
  @brada1878 - I had to google "piloerection". It wasn't what I thought it was, LOL!!
• Trzcina

  February 2014

  I had an intact female dog. She was, because of the dog people I happened to know, mostly socialized around other intact dogs, with the exception of a handful of dogs altered well after puberty. As an adolescent she was a jerk with other dogs regardless of sex; later, she would mostly ignore other dogs unless she actually knew them (she would play with familiar dogs. Unfamiliar dogs, she was more interested in doing other things like sniffing around and trying to find something to eat). She tended to want to interact more with other intact dogs, but she was civil toward neutered dogs as an adult too. Just less likely to try to start some kind of interaction with them (similarly, there were whole breed types of dogs she was far more interested in than others--other spitzy dogs she wanted to interact with. Tiny dogs, she mostly wanted to chase (I suspect she thought they were a prey species from a distance? I don't know). Sporting dogs with floppy ears, she would ignore unless they pushed the matter).
  
  But every spat she got into as an adult was always with altered dogs, and she usually would give them plentiful "leave me be" signs before anything would happen. Which I figured out pretty quickly, so that I could remove her from those situations. A cousin's neutered male Sheltie particularly annoyed her, because she was more interested in checking out the area and he wanted to bounce on her. Still, they were only together for the afternoon, and she was fine chilling in her crate because he didn't bother her there.
  
  Then when my dad married my stepmom and she brought her spayed sheltie mix, things got more complicated. Emmee was at first unsure about having a strange dog in the house, but after we worked on integrating the two, she was totally fine. Megan (the spayed sheltie), however, was the intermittent problem. She would occasionally actively seek Emmee out to start something. I could call Emmee off, but Megan would pursue and attack again. Which led to a few instances of me going "Grab your dog!!!" at my stepmom, who couldn't understand why she would possibly do that.
  
  Surprise surprise, Megan had never been around an intact dog before in her life. She didn't know how to deal with it and she responded nastily.
  
  There were a few cases of it going the reverse way that I saw, though. Emmee lived with her (also intact) litter brother for about the first year of her life, and they saw a lot of each other for a few years after that yet. Never any conflict, played well, etc. A few times, however, their neutered brother was added to the mix. Not only was he the unfamiliar one of the lot (even when he'd been with them on multiple occasions), but he was the "different" one, and the two intact siblings would gang up on him and pick on him. He in turn was uncomfortable around them, though how much of that was because they picked on him and how much was because he was used to neutered dogs, I don't know.
  
  Sorry that was so long...
• WhiteGC8

  February 2014

  No dog will be able to get along with every other dog it comes across just as we don't get along with every person we meet. We each have triggers and I've learned to manage them as best as possible.
• GrayJJ

  March 2014

  I feel your pain! This has happened to me the last few times at the dog park, more so to my unneutered dog (though has happened to my neutered dog too). A random dog will 'pick' and just attack at random.
  The most recent occurrence pissed me off, the other dog's owner was an older woman and just kept saying, "oh I don't know what's gotten into him.." but made ZERO effort to come split up the dogs when her dog pinned mine by the front of his throat. This seemed more hormone driven, as that dog was posturing the minute we arrived.
  When the owner makes no effort, I have to leave or go into a fenced area (depending on the park).
  
  My only solution is to try to go to the dog park when it's a bit more quiet. It's unfortunate that the dog park is the only place my non-offleash dogs can go. What I would give to own a huge plot of land!