Extensive White Markings

Comments

• sukiandluna

  December 2014

  Pinto shibas do have more white markings on them. So she might have some of that pinto marking in her gene pool. Or she might be a mix!
  (From what I've read from other members of the forum who are Shiba experts, the pinto coloration stemmed from puppy mills, are not standard but marketed as "rare")
• Trzcina

  December 2014

  Pinto shibas do have more white markings on them. So she might have some of that pinto marking in her gene pool. Or she might be a mix!
  (From what I've read from other members of the forum who are Shiba experts, the pinto coloration stemmed from puppy mills, are not standard but marketed as "rare")

  That's kind of what I expected--that if present in purebred Shibas, it would be a result of marketing mill-bred dogs who came out nonstandard colors as 'rare.' Not that nonstandard colors don't crop up in litters from responsible breeders, but that they would only be selected for by mills and 'oh that's cool-looking' pet breeders.
  
  This was just the first time I'd seen a photo of a Shiba (or mostly-Shiba at least) with so much white, though I guess I imagined pintos as being a piebald pattern (as in, mostly white with some colored patches--head, tail base, etc.), but it makes sense that there would be an intermediate form like this as well.
  
  I guess I don't look closely at mill Shibas and their coloring that often! Petland ads come up on my Facebook feed sometimes for some reason (and make me sad every time). Next time I see one I might look at what their sad-looking mill Shibas actually look like and see if they tend toward more white too.
• PoetikDragon

  December 2014

  Actually, because of urajiro, most black-and-tan shiba are largely black-and-white. The urajiro covers the normal irish spotting that is common in the breed. What you're seeing here is a LACK of urajiro, so you can see the irish spotting it normally obscures. There is some urajiro though, evidenced by the symmetrical white patches on the cheek.
• ayk

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  I'd have to quibble with PoetikDragon. Black/tan Shibas are supposed to have less urajiro than red Shibas (black/tans ~ "bow-tie" on their chest), and their urajiro should be edged in tan where it meets the black. They should not have Irish spotting where Irish spotting is defined by white up the legs, tail, chest, and neck/collar.
  
  What you're seeing here is not lack of urajiro. It's too much white spotting. Up all the legs, up the tail, up the chest.
• Losech

  December 2014 edited December 2014

  Pinto coloring was originally part of the Nihon Ken, but was excluded by modern standards. There are some nifty pictures of Pinto Kishu, Shikoku, and Akita somewhere on the forum.
  
  Anywho, I've seen a few Pinto Shibas. They certainly are cute, and that above Shiba (like ayk said) is Pinto, not lacking urajiro. The pinto actually covers up the urajiro markings.
  My Laika has "urajiro" but it is covered by his white markings. On Flint, the counter-shading is cream, so I can tell the difference between it and the white markings. It's very difficult to see in pictures, but the white is definitely over all other markings.
• PoetikDragon

  December 2014

  @ayk Your statements are correct, however, what is standard and what is common is not the same thing. There are a lot more Shibas that come from less-than-reputable sources and excessive urajiro/white fronts is very common. I pretty much only see correct red faces on imports and show dogs - not the pets you see random people with on the street, on packaging/advertising, pet bloggers, etc. Black-and-tans are already rare, and harder to show, so many of the ones you do see aren't to standard. The vast majority I have seen are black-and-white.
  
  Shibas (and Akitas) have irish spotting which is visible when they're born. The urajiro comes in later. Yes, this dog has too much irish spotting to be desirable, but it is the lack of urajiro that makes it visible. You wouldn't be able to see it if it had a typical pet-store/mill Shiba white front. (You can however see this dog does have urajiro, the cheek spots aren't irish spotting.)
• lindsayt

  December 2014

  Black with no tan is very incorrect, but very common in Shibas. B&t Dogs that are not perfectly marked are not shown for the most part, as the faults are so obvious, whereas with reds and sesames there is more wiggle room.
• lindsayt

  December 2014

  This seems like a chicken/egg argument!
• Kirarey28

  September 2015

  
  
  
  
  
  
  Here's Kira, she's probably a pinto too.
• Kira_Inu

  September 2015

  Reminds me of Corgi or Beagle markings vs Shiba markings. I've only seen red/white pintos.
• Kirarey28

  September 2015 edited September 2015

  Yeah I'm assuming she'll look something like this...
  
  
• PoetikDragon

  September 2015

  I don't think the dog will have creeping tan. So s/he will keep the black head with red and white muzzle.
• Kirarey28

  September 2015 edited September 2015

  She does have a lot of red on her head it's just hard to see in the images. So i'm curious if she will get a bit lighter up top. She may not be a typical/show quality proper colored shiba but she's healthy and is a ridiculously cute Shiba to me. That's all that matters in my eyes