Recommended Reading? (& Random Questions)
It's been a long time since I visited you guys here on the Nihon Ken forum, but I've come to pick your brains if I may!
For those who don't know me (all of you probably) I am 28, and live in Wiltshire, UK. I currently own three Northern Inuit dogs (2 male and 1 female) and a German Shepherd (male) ranging from 6 to 3 years of age. My males are all neutered, my girl is still entire.
I work from home as a pet sitter so my dogs are with me all day and very rarely left on their own (never for more than an hour). We have the Salisbury Plain practically on our doorstep which means there are a lot of nice open spaces to explore which is great when you have four large 'scary looking' dogs if you want some peace and quiet!
I am currently trying to do as much research as possible into both the Shiba Inu and the Shikoku Ken in the hopes that we may be able to add one to our family in the future. As such I would love and appreciate any recommendations that owners or breeders have for reading material or must have knowledge on either of these breeds. Books, websites, kennel recommendations (UK and Europe) or anything else you lovely people can think of which might be informative.
There are also a few more specific questions that I would really love some opinions on to help me with the decision as to which breed (if either) would better fit in with our lifestyle and family.
If I were to bring a puppy into the household which already has resident adult dogs are they likely to adapt to living as part of 'the pack'? My dogs live, play and sleep together - although they don't do cuddling up together or getting in each others faces except during play time - they are allowed the run of downstairs during the day and all sleep upstairs with us at night. Bearing in mind the mix of genders and ages I have would it be better to introduce a male or a female?
I have read in a few places already that these breeds aren't always reliable off lead due to their hunting heritage and instincts. Is this also true for those of you with multi-dog households? Do they tend to follow the other dogs or are they likely to be more independent and go and do their own thing if allowed off lead? How much exercise do you tend to give your dogs?
When looking for a breeder what are the most important questions I should be asking? Are there health tests or problems in the breed which I should be looking out for? Being the owner of an epileptic dog I would especially like to know if epilepsy is a problem seen in the Nihon Ken as a collective?
Showing is something I have been interested in but never pursued due to my current breed (the Northern Inuit) being unrecognised by the UK KC. I have entered some fun dog shows but never competed at any kind of level. If I was looking for a puppy to step into the show-ring with what are the most important factors to take into account?
Any other information or advice that you feel might be useful I would absolutely love to hear from you.
Thank you all for your time!
For those who don't know me (all of you probably) I am 28, and live in Wiltshire, UK. I currently own three Northern Inuit dogs (2 male and 1 female) and a German Shepherd (male) ranging from 6 to 3 years of age. My males are all neutered, my girl is still entire.
I work from home as a pet sitter so my dogs are with me all day and very rarely left on their own (never for more than an hour). We have the Salisbury Plain practically on our doorstep which means there are a lot of nice open spaces to explore which is great when you have four large 'scary looking' dogs if you want some peace and quiet!
I am currently trying to do as much research as possible into both the Shiba Inu and the Shikoku Ken in the hopes that we may be able to add one to our family in the future. As such I would love and appreciate any recommendations that owners or breeders have for reading material or must have knowledge on either of these breeds. Books, websites, kennel recommendations (UK and Europe) or anything else you lovely people can think of which might be informative.
There are also a few more specific questions that I would really love some opinions on to help me with the decision as to which breed (if either) would better fit in with our lifestyle and family.
If I were to bring a puppy into the household which already has resident adult dogs are they likely to adapt to living as part of 'the pack'? My dogs live, play and sleep together - although they don't do cuddling up together or getting in each others faces except during play time - they are allowed the run of downstairs during the day and all sleep upstairs with us at night. Bearing in mind the mix of genders and ages I have would it be better to introduce a male or a female?
I have read in a few places already that these breeds aren't always reliable off lead due to their hunting heritage and instincts. Is this also true for those of you with multi-dog households? Do they tend to follow the other dogs or are they likely to be more independent and go and do their own thing if allowed off lead? How much exercise do you tend to give your dogs?
When looking for a breeder what are the most important questions I should be asking? Are there health tests or problems in the breed which I should be looking out for? Being the owner of an epileptic dog I would especially like to know if epilepsy is a problem seen in the Nihon Ken as a collective?
Showing is something I have been interested in but never pursued due to my current breed (the Northern Inuit) being unrecognised by the UK KC. I have entered some fun dog shows but never competed at any kind of level. If I was looking for a puppy to step into the show-ring with what are the most important factors to take into account?
Any other information or advice that you feel might be useful I would absolutely love to hear from you.
Thank you all for your time!
Comments
Finding a breeder who has experience exporting dogs to the UK might be helpful, too... I have two people on my waitlist (Kishu Ken) in the UK - one in Scotland and one in England and the process doesn't seem super-difficult, but having someone familiar might make the process less painful for both parties. IDK.
Another breeder who has exported Shikoku to the UK is http://www.shikoku-ken.org/ - one of their dogs is on Mann, and I think the owner is adding another of their dogs to their household soon. They'd be a good resource, too, maybe, but I don't remember her name on the forum or if the breeder is on this forum...
That out of the way, epilepsy and epileptic-like conditions/symptoms do appear in the Japanese breeds - at least, I have heard of them in the Shiba, Shikoku, Kishu, and Hokkaido through this forum and on Facebook. I can't say how common or uncommon they are, since the pool I am aware of is kind of small right now. Additionally, autoimmune diseases aren't horribly uncommon in the Japanese breeds - probably due to their tight genepools. Which autoimmune issue(s) seems to vary depending on the breed.
For your questions on off-leash reliability... my Shikoku is MUCH more reliable off leash than either of my Kishu, if we're strictly talking from an obedience standpoint. He does not roam as far and recalls faster - but he is reactive to humans in all situations and reactive to dogs on the leash, whereas my Kishu may not be as reliable in their recall, but I don't have to worry about if there's a person around the bend on the trail with them. I still hike with my dogs off leash, I just mind where I'm hiking. I like to give them 3-5 miles a day for walks or adventures. Sometimes they get more if we go out for a big day. They probably don't NEED that much, but that's what I like to do.
Then, IMO, for adding another dog to a multi-dog household, I'd actually probably recommend maybe a female dog in this case, instead of a male dog - depending on your resident female's temperament/individual personality. The Japanese breeds CAN be scrappers and punks as they grow up. I doubt you'll have too much trouble with a young pup, but a punky teenager might be another story. It might be easier to introduce a female puppy in this case than a male puppy who might scrap with your other males as he ages... but I dunno.
I'd also suggest going for a girl.
I have no experience with shibas, sorry!
Crispy - I actually found the Nihon Ken blog yesterday whilst hopping around the internet and have started reading the author's comments on exporting which are really interesting. I have also previously been in contact with Kasatori Sou; follow their Shikoku over on Facebook and asked them a tonne of questions a couple of years ago about importing. Thank you for being honest with regards to the health issues seen in the breeds in general, it always helps to know what sort of things I need to be asking when looking for a breeder.
'Teenage stage' in the Nihon Ken sounds quite similar to teenage stage with Inuits. The boys can be complete ASBOs when they hit maturity, more so with new male dogs. My girl on the other hand didn't change in temperament she just decided to be more independent and wander off down the fields whilst I'm stood there looking like an idiot jumping around trying to get her back! Similar to you I allow all my dogs to run off lead but only in places where I can see what's coming. My female Inuit is pretty easygoing, she gets on well with most other dogs regardless of age or sex, she'd probably be happy to have another girl for backup.
lindsayt - I'll admit I know next to nothing about the Hokkaido as a breed so would love any websites or places you could recommend to learn more about them. Do they mix well with other dogs? And do you know if there are any in the UK or Europe or would I be looking at importing from the USA or Japan?
Kaja - thank you for your view especially from an owner's standpoint, it really helps to hear experiences from people who actually own the breeds. Is this your first Shikoku? Have you had other breeds before and how do they compare to the training you have to do with your Shikoku?
and I also have video of my Shikoku's behavior when off leash on the trail. This was the first time I let him off leash, actually, after I got him.
For less-fun but also informative stuff, there are a bunch of threads on Shikoku health on the forum if you search for them. I don't want to dig them up and link them to overwhelm you all at once, lol, but they're worth a read if you want to see everything we know about the Shikoku's health right now. Not to scare you off! I think it might be overwhelming to read about on the forum because we're always learning more and it comes up in discussion pretty often. They're just good to be aware of.
@WrylyBrindle makes a good point, too - these are kind of medium-small sized dogs. My Shikoku is on the larger side and still about the size of a female Siberian Husky.
I would quite like a smaller dog in the house. We have looked after a range of sizes over the years from Chihuahua to American Akita, think the biggest was possibly a Newfie pup we had every weekday from 10 weeks old to just over a year - so my dogs are used to having smallies around, their play style does differ with smaller dogs - however it would still need to be a dog that wouldn't be afraid to stand up to them.
Awww your Kishu looks like he's sitting there saying, "But why should I walk all the way over to you when you can just as easily come to me mum?" that is such a familiar look heehee!
I have spent a good deal of time socializing Kaja with dogs other than ours (she has clocked over a thousand hours of 'playtime' with random dogs). It was something I felt was important for her, and if you do pet sitting, I can imagine your dog would also be very socialized! Despite all that, Kaja is vocal, though... both to dogs, and to strangers. I have to explain to people that she's not being mean, she's just dog-talking. I imagine a shiba would be much more vocal, though (not to mention the infamous shiba scream!).
For me the biggest thing with Kaja was training her recall. I have never had a shikoku before. I have had other dogs... but all different than her. They were working breeds meant for cattle, and thus very attentive to how they move and how you want them to move. My shikoku isn't like that, and I don't expect her to be like that. She is obedient, and if I call her name and walk in the opposite direction she is sure to come running. But I don't trust her off leash like I trust my corgi mix, for example. Kaja likes to explore... and chase things. :P
Of course take what I say with a grain of salt, because there are much more seasoned shikoku owners here
For reasons I like Shikoku because of their nature at home and their nature outdoors. Katsu to me is a wild child and by no means was easy to raise. He is very loving when he wants to be and on the flip side he can also be very mean. Indoors he's mostly just chilled and relaxed and very territorial with strangers. If a stranger wants to interact with him, they have to 100% be on his terms, and once you do that it'll be arm hugs and kisses from him nonstop.
If you haven't checked yet, http://www.shikokuclub.org/ it lists personality traits common with shikoku. Katsu is 90% exactly as that website states Shikoku tend to be. You really need to socialize the heck out of these pups if you want them to be canine good citizens. Train only by positive reinforcement, and be very patient with them. They're really smart, so they will object quite often, or may even try to out smart you. If you do manage to get one and go through with the first two years hurdle, you'll have an amazing companion, Katsu isn't 2 years old yet, but he's changed so much within the past couple of months and while he isn't perfect, he's probably the ideal dog for me.
this is my gsd being a shiba.
i dont have a shikoku or a shiba, but i've got a Kai Ken.
i've met all of the japanese dog breeds and think a shikoku is a great option but a Kai might just suit you too.
they're kind of like little gsds with their own flair. mine loves to please, is very go with the flow, gets along with all dogs, super happy go lucky, etc. good traits to have with rough and tumble players like gsds and northern spitz.
i feel like shibas might get offended, as hokka might as well.
if you'd like an idea of size for some japanese breeds..
left: Meitou, Hokkaido male
mid: Fionna, Kishu female
right: Tavi, Kai Ken female (25lb / 17")
car: @Crispy 's
this is tavi next to my gsd (male 75lb / 24")
@T_Dog - I was hoping bringing in a puppy when the rest of my lot are all adults (in size if not in their brain) would be easier than the other way around. I was wondering if a pup of any of the Nihon Ken breeds would end up taking traits from the dogs they live with or if their natures tend to be more nature than nurture? Inuits don't really do 'good recall' either, they are very good at "we'll come back if you have tasty food and nothing more interesting is around. But we'll make sure to take a good look around before we decide whether it's worth coming back to you or not!"
Thank you so much for the size comparison @omgtain that's actually really helpful. Reading average weights and heights is all well and good but having a photo comparison is brilliant! My Inuits & the GSD are all around 90lbs in weight and 28" (approx) to the shoulder, so obviously a lot bigger than most of the Nihon Ken but from the sounds of it the size doesn't matter so much to them as the manners.
@JaanaS I believe the Shiba and Akita are the only breeds recognised by the UK KC at the moment. I wouldn't be opposed to travelling to Europe to enter the showring, although perhaps it wouldn't be the best idea for a beginner I suppose the more Nihon Ken imported to the UK the more chance there is of the breeds being recognised in the future?
www.hokkaidoken.com
www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
i know this wasn't really about hokkaidos buuuut i'm biased :P