Tengu Update

edited August 2008 in Akita (秋田犬)
The trainer came on Sunday, but we didn't have a very successful session. She and her assistant got bit quite a few times, though thankfully Tengu didn't break skin most of the time. The trainer told me that it would be hard to break him of his habits and make him be more submissive. The assistant got bit hard and recommended that Tengu be put down, that he was unmanageable. But I gave him a dirty look and said that I wasn't giving up. The trainer then started to try and claim the objects that Tengu bites to get. He was muzzled and prong collared, and the trainer distracted him with a treat, pulled him away, tied him to a post and slowly stood over the toy Tengu had. When he lunged, he just got jerked by the leash which was tied to a post. The assistant kept on giving him treats while the trainer stood over the toy and then walked over, then once Tengu was eating a treat she gave him back the toy. But in the end there wasn't a noticeable change in his behavior, though the trainer said that there was a bit of progress.

Comments

  • edited November -1
    Aww, its a real shame that hes being quite a tough cookie for you. I'm glad to see that your still trying. And i'm mad that the Assistant told you to put Tengu down. That really isn't any of their business. Obviously the trainer was there to do their job. Not tell you what to do with your foster.

    I hope things work out better as time progresses. Tengu has the potential to work with, but the effort, time, and patience is what is needed.

    Its very awesome of you to continue trying with him. Hes a very beautiful boy, and it certainly takes a lot of courage to take on such a dominant dog. And its obvious that you care. If anyone else was fostering him, they probably would've given up by now.
  • edited November -1
    Sucks that he is so resistant.

    Steph, as someone who works in a rescue, and just saw the photos of a six year old boy after much of his thigh was pulled from the bone by a dog, I would have to disagree with you. If Tengu were in a forever home I would say it is a different story.

    But the questions that need to be asked are these, do you believe that Tengu can be trained to a point that you would feel safe with him in the company of children? Not necessarily living with children, but kids happen you can't hide a dog from them forever. Can he truly be placed? And if so do you think that he would be a happy healthy addition to the family. Dogs that show this kind of aggression generally have known a lot of suffering. They live in constant fear.

    I am not saying you should put him down. But I am saying if he doesn't show significant progress he may be a bit too far gone. If that is the case, take some solace in knowing that aggression stems from suffering. And if he is that angry, he is suffering alot. Putting an angry fearful dog down is offering it the gift of freedom from the trauma and suffering lived in that body.

    I have seen dogs turn around. But I have also had to put one of my own dogs down. My dog Bunny bit 3 people and eventually attacked me. He had so much pain and hurt in his heart that 3 different behaviorists told me the most merciful thing I could do was to let him go.

    I hope the best for you and Tengu, just please do not jeopardize yours or your loved ones safety. Whatever happens know that you are giving this dog more than he has probably ever had, and that you are a wonderful person for giving so much to him already.
  • edited November -1
    I agree with what Jessica has stated, I also feel that the behaviorist giving his opinion was warranted. He is a professional that you asked into your home to get opinions from, and that was the opinion. However your decision to not give up is also acceptable. I'm sure you will hit a realization point when you either see that Tengu is making some changes or is not going to come around. Unfortunately not all dogs get to live out all of their days happily and when you work with fosters, or in shelters you are made very aware of this fact.

    Even if Tengu is turned around a bit, it seems like he is a dog that could never have children in his home, unless he is crated in another room. He would also need a very experienced handler, finding the right adopter could be very tough.

    I kind of fear reading the possible future post that Tengu didn't hold back for once when deciding to bite.
  • edited August 2008
    I think you need to be 100% up front an honest with the rescue organization that is fostering him to you, because I cannot understand why he would still be in a home with another dog when the potential for real harm is ever-present. Most rescues are a part of a network and usually in that network are certified trainers that can deal with a dog this far gone 24/7 as a live-in foster with this much suffering in his life as a last resort.
    I've done fostering and rescue, but I know my capabilities and limits as a non professional when dealing with a really damaged dog, and I know only keeping that dog to not give up can lead to serious injury for me, my husband or my own animals.

    Tengu needs to be with a professional or someone that has dealt with this sort of damaged dog before, I too fear the possible future post of Tengu not holding back, and I would hate to read who was injured. Please consider consulting your rescue for other options for this dog.

    **edit: I just read the thread that you are moving anyway - what are they going to do with Tengu?
  • edited November -1
    Tengu is constantly muzzled to make sure that he doesn't bite. Once I move at the end of this month, it will be the make-it-or-break-it point for him. If the rescue can find someone else to foster him, they will continue his rehabilitation. if not, and if he proves not to be coming around at all, they will have him put down. So I'll only have him till the end of August, and I'm going to put all my effort into this dog. I still have hope for him. I sometimes wonder what happened in his life to make him like this...
    I don't really know what will happen with his future, but it will be up to the rescue. I think that, even if I were staying, I would not continue to foster Tengu for much longer, he needs professional training.
  • edited November -1
    I can’t add much to the advice you have been given. At least you seem to have the reality of the situation in mind.

    You have done so much already and I think sadly the situation was way out of your hands before he arrived. He has learned that force gets results and that he will follow through. Tangu has given a very clear message that he will not compromise and everyone really needs to listen. Since two professional trainers (who we presume have handled lots of animals) have been bitten the likely hood that an average adopter can handle him is very slim. Placing him and potentially knowing that he could harm someone is a huge risk. The bites he has placed on individuals so far may have not left physical marks but it does leave mental scars. Yes, even for trainers. I do think of the child that was knocked and pulled on the shoulder. Next time it might be a vulnerable adult. You really need to think about whether you want to continue to carry the burden and liability of having to safely provide for an animal like Tangu. Doing so is exhausting. He may be fine 97% of the time but the other 3% it will be a heck of a weight in worry to manage.

    Life long sanctuary situations for animals like this are not very helpful because most dogs do not do well being outside of a social environment and will further degrade mentally.

    Continue the open communication with the rescue you are fostering for and make a collective decision based on the professional trainers evaluations and liability risks. In the quest to rescue and for the love of the animals it sometimes requires one to bring peace, weather that be for a terminal illness or mental injury that can not be overcome.

    Know that everyone supports your quest to help …In sheltering and rescue know that we all have been there at some point or another. The decisions are not always easy.

    Snf
  • edited November -1
    Thanks for the advice everyone. We are having one last session with the trainer this Sunday and then I am bringing him back to the rescue. I think he may be past the point of no return.
  • edited November -1
    Well, that's sad, but I think you are making the right choice. I admire your willingness to help, not give up easy, and your thoughtfulness.

    ----
  • edited November -1
    perhaps you can ask them to locate an akita specific rescue with akita-savvy handlers, without a real bite incident I can't believe they are ready to put this dog down - not saying that you should anticipate a real bite incident, but I think there are parts missing here..
  • edited November -1
    Jen - There are a lot of dogs that never bite anyone that are deemed aggressive and put down everyday. At shelters it happens a lot, in rescue it is a bit less seldom.
  • edited November -1
    I'm not saying he is going to be put down- we haven't decided that yet. But the rescue is going to keep him at their facility until they find someone else to foster and work with him, or until we decide to put him down. they want me to have a say in the decision, since I've spent the most time with him and have witnessed his behavior. I'm not sure what to do. I suppose that, in the hands of a skilled behaviorist, he might be turned around or kept, but your average dog owner, or even a very dog-savvy owner, would not be able to handle him. I'm surprised that I've had him for this amount of time without being seriously bitten.
  • edited August 2008
    brandon, i know that is why if the dog is supposedly enlisted through a rescue I can't imagine termination to be what is next for this particular dog.
    Working in the shelter and now mostly with rescue, there are major differences in resources and options, and if this dog is in a rescue, there are many, many other options for a dog that has not significantly showed harmful aggression. Even with a foster I had 3 years ago, he bit me really, really bad because I walked over a bone he wasn't even near. They wouldn't take my word for it and put him into a foster home of a behavioral specialist in their rescue network. The behaviorist adopted the dog. In rescue there is rarely an instance where euthanasia is even an option unless the dog is dangerous, extremely ill or severely tormented and unadoptable.
    But I guess protocol is different in every rescue.
  • edited November -1
    I would consider taking a child down and and grabbing his shoulder "harmful aggression"
Sign In or Register to comment.