Sage/Rakka
Well, as Brad mentioned, I have adopted Sage. I drove down to Washington to pick her up on Sunday. My husband has been calling her Samus, but I'm having trouble adjusting to that. I already think of her as Sage and how it feels weird calling her something else. This happened with Loki as well. He came with that name (he was originally adopted from the animal shelter) and I intended to change his name but I couldn't! Of course, that was before I was married, so I might just have to get used to calling her Samus. For now, I usually call her Sagemus. Also, it seems weird to start calling her a different name on the board, because you all know her as Sage. Anyway...
She seems to have settled in well. She didn't seem scared on the way home and she didn't whine during the night. She does seem to have an issue with men, though. She barked at every single man she saw on the way home and barked at my husband at first, then got used to him, and then when he came home from work the next day, she barked at him again. Also, my brother-in-law came in the house to wash his hands without knocking or anything (he moved his mobile home onto the same property we live on) and she was extremely upset by that. I wasn't there at the time and she had never seen him before, so the strange man walking in really upset her.
We introduced her to Tojo and Loki the night I got home in a field a few miles away from the house. None of the dogs had been there before, so I thought it was a good place. I drove there and then Noah walked them all home. Loki is his usual grouchy self and has a "I won't bother you if you don't bother me" attitude, which she seems to be respecting (I would too, he's twice her size). As for Tojo, she was really really picking on him. Tojo is being quite submissive, but she was snarling and barking at him every time he so much as moved at first. I haven't let them have any toys or bones except in their crates because I don't want to give them anything to fight over, but on Monday, I wasn't careful enough and Tojo came running into the room with a rawhide chew. Well, Sagemus flipped out and bit him really hard on the rump (didn't break skin or anything, and he is fine). He screamed for five minutes and hid in the bedroom the rest of the day. We are squirting her every time she growls and saying "Nice!" She has also been wearing a muzzle. She snarled at him a few times yesterday in the morning, but by the evening, they were sharing the couch without a problem. She doesn't like the muzzle, but I think avoiding another biting incident is paramount, as I think every time it happens, it will reinforce itself, both with Sagemus to be aggressive and Tojo to be scared and defensive. Besides, having it on seems to have calmed her down. I've been researching this sort of thing ever since I realized it wasn't going to be so simple and in my opinion, she will learn to be his friend in time. She is already ten times better than she was the first day, and from what I have read, is doing quite well. When I see her starting to raise a lip, I usually just have to say, "Nice!" and she stops and does something else.
Just another steep learning curve to climb. Noah said I should be careful what I say on the forum for fear that I will be thought poorly of, but honestly, based on previous experience, I think you will all be very helpful and non-judgemental.
She is doing surprisingly well with the cats. She stares at them and watches their every move, but has been very obedient when I tell her to "Leave it". It took Tojo way longer to get that good! Still, I wouldn't leave her alone with them, but I don't leave Tojo alone with them either.
We haven't let her off leash, yet. We let her run on a long-line and are reinforcing her recall. She seems to love the open space, water, and all the little critters running around our property.
Anyway, more updates to come.
Comments
It sounds like you are doing a fine job. Integrating dogs who have come to know thing one ways, and asking them to change to another often takes time and a watchful eye. You seem to be controlling the situations well.
jmaxwell - I actually hadn't sent in my deposit yet. I had the contract signed and was all ready to, but I wanted to wait until I had a phone line and knew my address before I did (I just barely got my phone line and apparently there are a bunch of Mexican Hutterites moving here and taking up all the post office boxes). Anyway, I will still be getting a puppy, but I think I will wait a little longer. In 2010, I'm getting one from Corina, who will be importing a pregnant female (if all goes well) so I might get them at the same time... I haven't decided yet. We'll see!
Brandon - thanks for the encouragement.
Hi Heidi,
It's nice to hear a status report on Sage - I'm sure it's kinda awkward for you guys since it was a somewhat public adoption (on the forum at least).
Sounds like you have your hands full, it's hard introducing older dogs to each other. Trust me, I know how hard it can be to integrate a new dog.
Oh, gosh... I dunno... Every situation is so different. Let's see...
1 - In my opinion, your number one focus should be bonding with Sagemus - you need to build trust. Once you have trust she will feel more comfortable and the problems will start to fade.
2 - Guarding of treats, toys, and food are natural behaviors for a dog. I wouldn't worry too much about that, with time you can work on clearing up that type of behavior but I wouldn't focus on it yet.
3 - Tojo knows you, and will listen to you, so I would focus on correcting him during interaction with Sage. That way you are helping to teach him how to be with Sage and not overloading Sage with stress.
4 - From my experience, Shikokus and Shibas don't mix very well. It's something about their personalities... Shikokus are very reactive, and Shibas are very bossy. These traits seem to clash. Example: Shikoku goes up to a Shiba and attempts to get it to play by doing something that a Shikoku would consider play. The Shiba doesn't like it and does that Shiba snippy correction, the Shikoku sees that as a threat and reacts. Now you have a dog fight. The personalities traits perpetuate conflict. Ahi has been around approximately 15 Shibas, mostly off leash - she has only played nicely with one. I mean it's only now that she and Maui will play.
5 - Once you bridge the gap from 2 dogs to having 3 (or more) you start to really see pack behavior. You should let some of the behavior happen - they need to establish their own rules among each other. Only step in when you feel it's getting out of control or leading down a path that will cause a fight. You will notice Loki and Tojo misbehaving more now that they live in a true pack.
6 - Ahi makes a lot of odd noises, some sound aggressive but are not. She also shows her teeth a lot. She will walk into a dog park and show her teeth to any dog that approaches, even if she knows the dog. After about 5 minutes she will stop and start playing with the other dogs. It seems she just wants all the dogs to know that she initiates the interaction, not them. Sage might show her teeth or growl, but it may be more warnings and posturing than aggression - she is just trying to show the other dogs how she would like to be treated - the other dogs will get it. I'd be concerned that the muzzle may hide her ability to properly posture to the other dogs - and that may lead to a longer period of acclimation... I dunno tho.
Well, that's it -I guess I had more to say than I thought. I think the key to all I just typed is, take it slow and work on building a bond with Sage. Once Sage in comfortable the interactions with the other dogs will be more positive, but until she is comfortable she will be on guard. Remember, with dogs, it's all about fight or flight. Also remember Shikokus are REALLY smart and the do EVERYTHING 200% - this means if they want to get hectic, it's 200% more hectic than you will probably be used to. If they want to give you some love, it's 200% more love than you are used too. They are truly unique dogs.
Let me know if any of that isn't clear.
What's the breeding?
I think I missed something somewhere. I went for a long while where I was letting everything pile up! Not just my e-mail inbox but unchecked Topics on the forums as well.
I'm glad to hear that she is getting along with the cats! -big smile-
Well, Sage seems to be handling the transition nicely. The first two days were a little rough with all the dogs trying to find their new place in the pecking order. We were unwavering and diligent in terms of tackling Sage's dog aggression, and so far the message seems to have gotten across. There wasn't one incident between Tojo and Sage yesterday, and only one between her and Loki (Isaac, our son, had dropped some food and a mad rush for it ensued).
We lost the dog muzzle the other day, but realized when we couldn't find it that Sage was actually doing pretty good without it. We just keep a spray bottle of heavily diluted lemon juice handy and it seems to do the trick. She's even learning to leave the cats alone!
Brad certainly hit the mark when he said the key was establishing a bond with the dog. We've been practicing NILF and doing a lot of training, and that seems to have established Heidi and I as the dominant members of the pack. She's eager to please, which means she's become much less inclined to attack the other dogs (or cats) because she no longer wants to disobey us.
All in all, she seems very happy. If you're reading Jill, we appreciate the opportunity to take her into our home. We've noticed that she's very sensitive, obedient, and submissive. We're used to dealing with such stubborn and belligerent dogs that it took us a while to adjust. This experience has only reinforced my personal belief that the shikoku is the perfect breed.
Jill, I don't know if you already taught her the sit, stay, come, and heel commands, but if you haven't, I'm extremely impressed. She's managed to pick each of them up already! We've been taking pictures and when we have them developed we'll start posting them.
Hi Noah! Glad things are going well. :c)
I'm sure we would all love to see some pictures!
Shikokus are smart dogs huh?
I'm glad that Sage seems to be adjusting well. Sounds like it was a rocky start, but it seems like you have handled it well and things are improving. We just got our computers online in our new tiny digs and I was so happy to see an update. Thanks! I've missed Sage tremendously while at the same time feeling so glad for her that she doesn't have to try to live in even smaller quarters. I'm certain that however hard for me, it was the best choice for her. Thank you for giving her what I can not. She is everything that you described Noah and so willing to please. Once she knows what you want from her, she's all about making you happy. I look forward to being able to read about her antics from time to time.
Brad and Jen - Thank you so much for all the support. You both are simply amazing and I will be forever grateful to you for your willingness, friendship and love of the breed. Thank you for helping me get through this process.
Jen and I are always happy to help - we are stoked Sage is with Heidi and Noah, I think she will do very well with them. :c) I also think it was the right decision for Sage.
As I have said before, this is why I started this forum, to help - and - to help people help (I dunno if that makes any sense).
We found the name Samus just wasn't fitting her. We opted for a more feminine, Japanese name so we went with Rakka. I also thought was fitting because the Rakka she's named after came from somewhere else and is now in a new home.
Anyway, she's still doing well! Tensions between her and Tojo have lifted a few times and they've played together nicely (in that I think they both enjoyed it - they were actually being pretty crazy). I introduced toys into the mix. I've left out a few. Tojo and Rakka spar over them. Rakka usually wins. Any time there's an altercation, Loki stands between them and barks, which I find interesting.
I kind of feel bad - Noah and I have had a stomach flu these past few days and they haven't been exercised much, although I did make an x-back harness for Rakka so we can go scootering when I feel better. Well... it's not quite finished. I still have to add the "X" and the padding. When it's done I'll post a picture.
Yeah, I think since he's top dog he wants to control the situation. Tojo and Rakka have been sparring all morning! Over what, I'm not sure. I'm not worried about anyone getting hurt since they're only making noise, but holy crap - they're making a lot of noise! Mostly Tojo. Where most dogs would give a quiet growl, he has to scream at the top of his lungs. Rakka keeps laying down at his feet, so it seems like she's submitting, but at the same time, she steals things from him all the time, so I'm still not sure who's the dominant one. They probably aren't sure either, hence the sparring. Actually, it seems like Tojo wants her attention. She follows him around and he screams at her to leave him alone, but as soon as she does, he goes and gets in her face until she's following him again. Sometimes he makes to run away but if she doesn't actually chase him, he turns around and waits for her to notice that he's still there.
That sounds EXACTLY like Maui and Ahi! Maui gives the loudest high-pitched bark when they play - it sux so bad. Ahi growls and makes bear noises.
It sounds to me like Rakka and Tojo are playing. You are probably just not used to it yet, it took Jen and I a real long time to get comfortable with Ahi's level of play. We always thought Shibas got crazy when they play but Shikokus take it to the next level. Ahi practices (what I call) large game tack-downs on Hilo... She runs up and jumps on him and bites the scruff of his neck using her body weight to pull him down. You would think Hilo would hate that, but he seems to like it.
I think Shikokus' favorite game is keep away, they steal a toy an get another dog to try and get it from them. That is all Ahi does, all day. Ahi will also lay down at the other dogs feet when playing. She will get Hilo or Maui to attack her then just lay down and let them do it - when they stop she antagonizes them to attack her again. She's odd.
I've noticed, and heard from behaviorists, that the whole dominance thing doesn't really work the way we think it does. Our pack seems to have an ever changing order, and they also allow one another to be dominant on certain things. For example, no dogs, except Hilo, can take a toy/bone from Ahi, but Ahi can't take a toy/bone away from any of the dogs either. Hilo can take a toy/bone from any of the dogs, but any of the dogs can take a toy/bone from him. The only ones that can take a toy/bone away from Maui is Kaia or Hilo. That makes it sound like Maui is dominant, but when he is approached by Ahi or Hilo he rolls on his back. It's just really odd.
The same rules apply to the couch if Jen and I are on it. Only Kaia and Hilo will lay on the couch at the same time. Maui will only lay up there with me and Jen if there are no other dogs, same for Ahi. Sometimes Maui and Kaia will lay on it together, but it is not as often as it used to be. - generally Maui and Kaia can do anything to each other with no bickering. I'll let Kaia up on the couch with us, and Maui will jump right down - even tho there is more than enough room.
I think that's called pack dynamics in a domestic situation. If they had to hunt for food, it'd be clearer cut who's top dog. This way, each control some aspect - I've heard that it is an important part in pack mentality to do this. If I had to venture, Hilo will always be 'top dog' simply because Akitas are natural pack leaders - they have a Cool Hand Luke, or Roland the Gunslinger type attitude toward leadership. As he gets older, there won't be anything he can't do to gain control over any other dog in your house - and they'll all easily let him because he won't assert physical force to gain that leadership role. He'll earn it, and quite impressively too. When he gets to be about 2 yrs old, should any other dog or human interfere with another dog in his pack, there'll be hell to pay. He'll step right up to the plate as defender. But for now, he's far too juvenile for any of your pack to let him rule as King. As time goes on, the dynamics will change for the better of the pack as they see it. At least that's what I've read.