- - GREAT NEWS - -
I just found out yesterday about my Shikoku puppy! He was born on September 13th. There are Akagoma (Redish) and Kurogoma (Blackish) males available.
I have my heart set on the Kurogoma and will most likely end up keeping him. However, I will look at both pups and see which one will win me over, lol. The father (Akagoma) of these two pups was at the Nippo Show last year and he won many titles there. How exciting is that?!
There are also litters due in October and November.
I can't wait! Now I'm down to 4 1/2 more weeks until I leave for Japan. And about 6 weeks or so until I get my pup. Oh my gosh, there is still so much to do!
I'm looking into getting a 3 bedroom house now because the other one didn't work out (they didn't allow pets). This one is much better though! I'll have a Guest room and a separate Whelping room (for future use). I'm hoping to get approved and move in before the end of the month. Wish me luck!
Comments
Wow! That's cool - you gotta be so stoked right now. :c)
Would you consider getting both of the pups?
Good luck with the house!
Yay! Congratulations about the puppy. I'm sure that you must be so very excited!
Personally, I'm quite partial to Kurogoma (Blackish) pups... males especially! (I love my boys! ...and being the only girl in the house.)
Please do let us know which you choose, although I'm sure that each/both are equally adorable!
Heidi - Thanks! I will be needing all the Realty vibes I can get, lol. I still haven't heard from my source and it has been over a week.
Brad - =(^-^)= Oh, I'm totally stoked indeed.
I thought about it, but I really don't want to have 2 males in the house so close in age. That's just asking for trouble because there WILL be problems between the two boys. Also, if I'm able to get a 2nd Shikoku puppy. It'd be a female and from another, not so closely related, litter.
Lisa - Yes, there is just something about those dark coats, lol. I'm dead set on the Kurogoma, it is the color I requested. However, I also understand that I shouldn't choose a puppy just for color alone.
I think with the Shikoku I should be safe, so hopefully this Kurogoma boy will also have the qualities I'm looking for. If I find that the Akagoma may have the better qualities, then of course I'd take him.
The Kurogoma my breeder says is not an easy color to produce in Shikoku. The Akagoma and Black & Tan Shikoku are the most common. The pups will be about 10 weeks when I go to evaulate them, I'll take photos and share them of course!
Then do an indiviual photo of the pup I chose.
Thanks!
Corina,
I'm so excited for you! So a male instead of a female? I thought you were getting a pregnant female? Anyway, doesn't matter. Just glad you have a little one on the way.
So, the Kurogama is different than say, Ahi in color? I'm confused - is Ahi a black and tan or a Kurogama? I wasn't even aware there was a difference. All I ever read was the Shikoku came in red, red sesame, and black sesame. I'm intrigued - tell me more.
Michelle - I've been planning on getting a male from the start. The female will be my 2nd Shikoku. Someone sugguested the idea of importing a pregnant female to me, which I considered. However, I may not go that route the first time around. The possiblity still exists but may be something to consider for further on in the future (perhaps when my Japanese is better; say more fluent). We'll see...it is still early.
Instead I will most likely get a puppy or a young female. And then when she is of age (around 3 years), I will either take her back to Japan to be bred or see if semen can be shipped to the U.S. for an A.I. As a back-up plan, she can always be bred to my male or one of Katja's males.
Everything is slowly coming together though, it is a matter of time. This really is a waiting game, lol. Though, I'm in no rush. Time seems to be moving by quickly already. It'll be here before either of us know it!
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Ahi is a Kurogoma (Blackish - Black Sesame)
Ronan is a Akagoma (Redish - Red Sesame)
And there are different shades of both from light to dark, I've seen.
Then there are the Black and Tan Shikoku (just like a Black and Tan Shiba)
And then you have one of those "throw back" genes that produce White Shikoku (like a White Shiba)
The Akagoma, Kurogoma & Black and Tan can be bred (if they are good breeding stock). The White Shikoku should NOT be bred. Rumor has it that the Black & Tan color in Shikoku come from a certain line and have "super quality" in the genetics and they encourage one to use them into their breeding program. The Japanese are fun, I love hearing all the bits and pieces of history/background in our dogs.
I need to gather more information this year on the breed to be able to write an article. I never did do one for last year. I guess I was really busy. Slowly but surely, it will be written, lol.
Anyways...Michelle, I hope that clarified it for you; the difference between Kurogoma and Black & Tan Shikoku. I'll will also see if I can get some good photos and do a color chart page at some point.
Are the Black and Tan Shikokus more Black and White? For example, would this shikoku be a Black and Tan:
----
These I assume are all variations of "Kurogoma" - correct?:
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Here are the variations in "Akagoma" - correct?:
----A book Jen and I just saw at Borders said there is Red Sesame, Black Sesame, and Sesame - What would just plain old Sesame be? You think the book is just wrong?
Would this Shikoku be a Sesame or just a really light colored "Akagoma"?
This is so confusing to me. Katja told me that black and tan shikokus weren't the standard and that she had one once and she sold it on a spay/neuter contract. If you look at Peggy Graham's dogs (http://users.adelphia.net/~bpgraham/index_012.htm), she has white ones, ones that are red, but not sesame (like a red shiba) and the one in the swimming pool with the white one looks like it has a weird-looking urajiro (or lack thereof).
Canadian Kennel Club and the FCI standard both say "sesame, red sesame, or black sesame". I sure wish I had the Japanese standard in English - anybody have that per chance?
Another thing, I sure wish I knew what the deal with their nails was. I've heard that they have to be black but I've also heard that they can be all white or all black, but not both. The Canadian Kennel Club and FCI standard (now that I think about it, I think they're the exact same) states that they must be black or dark brown. That dog that Brad posted at the very bottom - "Sachi" from Koyote Kennels, has all white nails, and she was being bred. Rakka has a mix of black and white nails and Katja told me she only ever sold one puppy that wasn't "show quality" and it was the black and tan shikoku from her first litter, so presumably, Rakka should be show quality, and yet her nails are incorrect based on everything I've heard.
In short... I have no idea.
Yea, I have no idea either - that was what I was kinda pointing out about that book Jen and I saw... Every book you read shows a different standard - it's rather confusing.
Ahi's nails are all black.
Fascinating.
Brad - the last one in the red group looks so much like Ronan. He's really getting a lot of blackish ticking in his fur.
Every one of Ronan's nails are black, as are his foot pads. Black nails are harder for me to trim - white ones, like Tasha and Sachi are easier because I can see where the quick is.
It's funny to look at all the pics. Ronan still seems so small an thin. Definately adolescent. But damn, he is THE most affectionate dog. Has Tasha beat, and I've always said she had the personality of a Golden.
Corina - thanks for the info! Can't wait for you to get your pup!
Okies, I'm going to be answering all of these, but in no particular order:
Heidi - It is very confusing, but only in the beginning. After a while, everything starts sinking in.
Well first off, the English Names themselves are way too confusing, the Japanese have it simple:
* Akagoma - anything that is reddish in color. This includes the Red, Red Sesame or any other shade that is of red origin.
* Kurogoma - anything that is blackish in color, but not solid.
* Black & Tan - I'm not sure what they call this, but the black here is solid (no sesame strans of mixed colored hairs). Then you have the tan or urajiro markings. -Think a GIANT Black and Tan Shiba here; tis' the best comparison-
Somtimes it may be hard to tell which is which between Akagoma and Kurogoma. And honestly, I think they should have a "Gray Sesame" too, lol.
Katja is correct, of course. Black and Tan Shikokus are NOT Show quality according to standard. However during our trip to Japan last year we found out that they are okay to use in breeding. Supposedly whatever genetic material is linked or attached to that Black and Tan color gene is good stuff. Good enough that it should be replicated in the next generation. We learned something new for "next time". This is always an ever going, life long, learning process. And just one of those things that makes you go, "Oh." After all, there wasn't anything wrong with dog (I'm sure s/he was standard except for the coat color). .
Note ~> Besides, although the color is not show quality; it doesn't diminish the working quality of the dog at all -smiles-.
As for the white coat, I believe it has something to do with the genetics (of course, doesn't it always? -grins-). In the Shikoku's case, the white seems to be either a mutation or a defect. I'm thinking the White Shikoku may actually be an Akagoma or Kurogoma, but for whatever reason the gene was unable to (fully) express itself. So when you (Heidi) wrote "lack thereof", you are right. It doesn't effect the dogs themselves in any negative way; they just lack in color. However, it is possible that they may produce unwanted results. If the gene is defective, then you are not going to want to knowingly produce more dogs with defects, it could create problems for our breed should another mutation take place as a result of this unexpressive gene.
Note -> Not all mutations are bad, some are good and others are just neutral. I'm mean after all...tis' how evolution takes place. Anyways, mutations are only bad when they involve defective genes which in turn can cause problems.
This is the most sensible reason I could come up for why White Shikoku shouldn't be bred. What does everybody else think?
I though that the FCI standard was translated from the Japanese standard. Perhaps, for some strange reason it wasn't translated fully? Also...realize that there are no direct translations; it wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Oh yes, the nails. I knew this one, but I forgot which was which! =(^-^`)= Heh...it might be that white nails and black nails are okay but not dark brown. Or something of that sort. Yet another thing to add to the list to verify. Where's my notebook?!
As for the mix of nails and show. Know that not every dog is going to be absoluely perfect. The Breed Standard is merely just a guideline. In Shows you're not really suppose to compare dogs to other dogs but the dogs to that piece of paper with all that text on it - the Standard. And see which dog fits the description the best. So in short...YES Rakka would be/is show quality. However, she would be faulted for the mixture of white and black nails. So long as she doesn't have any major faults, you could show and finish her championship. It shouldn't be anyproblem as far as I'm concerned.
Brad - The first pic is not a Black and Tan, it is yet another Kurogoma.
And the 4th picture in your Kurogoma section looks more Akagoma.
As for Sachiko...maybe Akagoma??? <-- this is where I think there should be a "Gray Sesame", lol!
Jessica - YES! That does make sense about the white and hunting. Unless, they were hunting in the snow...they may not do very well. Prey will see them first! I will ask breeders in Japan and see why.
Heidi - This is also another good reason as to why.
It could be one of these things or maybe a combination of many. Tis' yet another question going into the notebook! We will soon find out and hopefully I can ask many breeders; poll them all in and see what the common responses for this are.
Wouldn't it be cool if their coats changed like arctic foxes?
Don't mind me. Haven't had coffee yet and have gone off to fantasy land.
Sorry to dig up this (long) old thread - but I just wanted to add to it. I noticed Loa has white nails, and I asked Katja about it to see if it was a fault for showing - this is what she said:
"No, white and black nails are correct. The Japanese don't like to see brown nails on the Shikoku but it is not a fault that would disqualify her from the show ring."
So it sounds like white and/or black is ok - just not brown... at least that is the case in Japan. The standards can be so confusing, and I think most of it will be learned the hard way - in the ring...