I may have sealed Mochi and Jasper's fates

diggahdiggah
edited September 2008 in Shiba Inu (柴犬)
When I showed up at the dog park nothing was amiss, I checked out the owners, and the dogs; and they were all know to me, no issues. Ninety seconds after I took him off of his leash, Mochi was across the park and on top of a westie named Jasper. Thankfully, another owner knew him and pulled him off by the time I could get there.

Still, Moach wasn't playing. He apparently drew blood.The humane society has a vet on duty so he checked him out, but I didn't get the full story because the owner was making a bee-line for her pet clinic and didn't have time to chat. Her concern was he might lose an eye. :0(

Obviously I feel horrible about the whole thing. I knew the lady and both her dogs, and they tended to get along fairly well. Koda played with Jasper a lot and I'm not sure if Mochi was being possessive, it happened way too fast for me to make any kind of objective judgment.

I've already told the wife that if Jasper is seriously hurt, Moach can kiss his balls goodbye. The truth is that he is probably going to get snipped anyway as I don't have any intention of going through this on a regular basis. Of course there is still going to be a lot of behavioral work, and if he is allowed to go back to the park he will be muzzled and kept on a lead for some time.

Of course the worst part of this is the fact that it is entirely my fault, I misjudged the nature and the extent of my dog's aggression. He has shown some tendencies towards rank aggression, but I've always been confident that I could call him off. Clearly I've shown poor judgment, and somebody else gets to pay for my mistakes.

I hope to find out what happened to Jasper tomorrow, until then I expect to be in a fairly shitty mood.

Comments

  • MikaAndMeMikaAndMe
    edited November -1
    That sucks man. My puppy Mika is 8 weeks old and she is pretty sick. She hasn't eaten in 3 days so I know what you mean about being in a shitty mood over your dog. We love these things so much and when bad things happen we usually realize that it is something we could have avoided for whatever reason. However, hindsight is always 20/20 and as long as you and your dog both learn then everything will work itself out.

    I just wanted to say good luck and I hope the other dog is OK with no serious damage. At the end of the day, you have to choose what's best for the both of you and I agree with your conclusion that if the other dog is hurt then the balls should go. It may be a huge step in the right direction to good behavior for Moach (Mochi? I'm unsure of the name as it's spelled two different ways above.) and he may actually be grateful to you for snipping him (although not likely, lol,jk). Nevertheless, I feel your pain, staying up late, worrying about your dog. Keep us posted and I will do the same. Peace.
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited November -1
    It does seem that Mochi has an aggression issue. He should be neutered, and until you take him to a behaviorist and have him evaluated he should not be at the dog park, possibly never at the dog park again. You cannot risk this, as Mochi's life could already be in danger. If you haven't offered to pay for the vet bills for Jasper, you should.

    A muzzle for the park is a fine idea, but a leash is not a good idea. A dog on a leash vs dogs not on a leash always leaves the leashed dog feeling like they are at a disadvantage, and that can often up the aggression/possession mode of a dog.
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    edited November -1
    It is awful that it happened. But truthfully, unless you are a breeder, there really is no reason to have an unneutered male. I know parks here, don't allow unneutered males in the dog park. I hope that Jasper is alright.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    I agree with Brandon and Jessica. Even if Jasper is ok, the situation was a bad one and your dog should get neutered and seek the help of a behaviorist. We took Mika to the dog park a few times. She just got into too many fights, so we stopped going completely. And she has NEVER broken another dogs skin. I just couldn't/wouldn't let it get to that point. In my mind, it was irresponsible to put other dogs in danger, so we stopped going completely.

    I really believe that things would've gotten worse if I took her to the park with a muzzle. Her aggression would just escalate out of frustration, cause a fight and put her in a position where she can't defend herself...but I know her. Mochi might be different muzzled.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    oh my - I hope Jasper is OK. That's a hard thing.. this stuff happens so fast sometimes that you can't even make heads or tails of the event.. its why I stay away from dog parks for the most part, too much happening all the time to keep my eyes on all 3 dogs with everyone else's dogs.
    But I agree with the above, snip the balls and consider a behaviorist. Moach will be a happier dog in the long run.

    Good luck, I'm hoping for the best possible outcome for you.
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    edited November -1
    I agree with what other have said, so I'll offer my best wishes for Jasper and for the Moach on a speedy recovery from his neuter surgery!
  • diggahdiggah
    edited November -1
    I was thinking the same thing about the muzzle, he is already writing checks he can't cash, so it would kind of be like de-clawing a cat. The thing is I really consider socializaion to be critical and if the dog park is out of the picture I'm not sure how we're going to manage. Koda is still only nine months and she will still get to go, but I expect Moach will not be happy about that (not that he didn't bring it on himself).

    As far as paying the vet bill, that is a given; we feel bad enough for the grief we've caused the owner and we've already acknowelged responsibility.

    This reminds me of the family guy episode where Brain almost lost his nutty buddies. There is a line where Peter's father-in-law tells him:

    "This is just like a Greek Tragedy, and you're going to be playing the part of Sans Testiclies"

    @M&;M: His name is Mochi, moach for short (rhymes with roach); also I'm very sorry to hear the little one is ill.
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited November -1
    Taking the dogs to weekly positive reinforcement obedience classes, or agility classes is a great way to get your dogs around other dogs in a controlled environment.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    I hope Jasper is ok and I hope Mochi calms a bit.

    ----

    I want to point something out, but I don't want you to feel like this is a personal attack. I don't mean it that way...

    The title of this thread is "Mochi may have sealed his fate" when really the title should be "I may have sealed Mochi's fate".

    By taking your intact male to a dog park YOU sealed his fate. The truth is you have no idea what caused this situation. If it happened to a neutered male dog it would be MUCH easier to figure out the cause, but when you add hormones to the mix there are so many triggers that can cause aggression like this.

    ----

    Was Koda with you at the park? Is she intact too? If so she could be going into heat, her first heat, and Mochi may have been guarding his lady.

    ----

    As owners, it is our responsibility to make sure things like this don't happen and if they do happen it is our fault, not the dogs.

    ----
  • diggahdiggah
    edited November -1
    You're exactly right Brad, and while I can’t help taking it personally; I have no one to blame but myself. Believe me it would be real easy to vent on the dog, or to shoot the messenger; but the bottom line is that I fucked up.

    I’ve edited the title to reflect what has actually happened.
  • diggahdiggah
    edited November -1
    I didn't see the owner today, but I found out through the social network that Jasper got off fairly light. He has a cut and a bruise above his eye and he has to get eye drops, but from what I was told he was running around the park this afternoon and all his parts seemed to work. I feel a lot better. Still haven't talked to the owner, so I don't know what the vet bill is going to look like. With any luck it will be enough to convince the wife that we can't afford to take any chances.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    Jasper was definitely lucky. And I agree, taking any intact dog, aggressive or not to a dog park is asking for trouble. You can still socialize your dogs on leash during your walks in addition to the obedience classes mentioned previously. But the best way to start off is to get both dogs fixed, when they are age appropriate and hire a behaviorist.
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    edited November -1
    I'm glad no real damage was done. Jasper is one lucky guy.
  • RomiRomi
    edited November -1
    WOW! Im also glad that no real damage was done. Jasper is very lucky. I also agree with the other members about getting Mochi neutered. If you aren't planning to breed or show - there really is no point to keep him intact. Good luck with everything, if anything, I would highly recommend you to look for a behaviorist. Just so you can work with Mochi and learn how to deal with him in certain situations.
  • TeamLaikaTeamLaika
    edited November -1
    diggah
    Sorry to hear about this episode. However, I would caution you some...what is your plan when Mochi is still aggressive AFTER his neuter? The fact is that much of that behavior is learned. Castration is not a magic wand. I agree, if you aren't planning to breed or show, by all means neuter him, but you must be realistic about your expectations and the dog.

    Some behaviorists actually think that the reason some neutered dogs behave better after the procedure is because OTHER dogs alter the way they react to them. The aggressive dog still has every tendency to be defensive or aggressive, but other dogs don't respond in a way that causes an escalation. (Particularly in the case of another intact male. The neutered party is just not considered that much of a threat)

    Obviously you weren't there to see the entire interaction, but I also have to wonder about the Westie. Having owned a Westie for 14 years, I happen to know they are NOT all sweetness and light! They are cute, little, white and smart, but they are also a TERRIER.

    You may have to realize that you have a dog that is simply not suitable for a dog park. I agree with Brandon. Your dog can be exposed to many dogs and learn to be less reactive in a controlled, safer setting like an obedience or agility class. He can still play with his buddy Koda. You won't be denying him anything.

    Good luck
  • diggahdiggah
    edited November -1
    I'm still researching and talking to people, most are warning me that at 18 months I shouldn't expect too much of a change just by getting him snipped. Moach is on his third obedience class so I’m definitely working more than one angle (they’re all different teachers and classes, I’m not just repeating the same stuff).

    And yes, Jasper is intact and by no means shy; so I’m sure it factors in to it as well. But that is something I have absolutely no control of, every park is going to have at least one alpha wanna-be. Which of course re-enforces the notion that my dog doesn’t belong in a dog park under any circumstances. I acknowledge that my expectations may be unrealistic for either the dog or the breed, but I’m definitely not wild about making that call. :0(
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