so GRRRRRR

KaddyKaddy
edited September 2008 in General
I've never been so... GRRRR ... at a group that I've joined...

There are a lot of mixes in my area, and it's so shitty... This dude who posted on my Shiba meetup forum just really made me... GRRRR!!!

"Hi All:

After attending today's meetup my kids and I were particularly attracted to the ShibaMos (Shiba/Miniature Eskimo mix). Does anyone know where one can be obtained or if anyone is breeding them?

Thanks,

Dave"


I posted a bunch of stuff about designer breeds etc. anything you guys think I should include would be great!

Comments

  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    OMG! "ShibaMos"!!!!!!

    ...they've corrupted the shiba into a "Puggle" or a "Malteepoo" type design! Why?!?!?


    My poor shibas. :( ~
  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    edited November -1
    I think that sometimes people like that back off form their idea if you make them see that that kind of dog isn't a designer breed. It is, in fact, a mutt. Now there's nothing wrong with mutts, pretty much all I've met are wonderful dogs, the best dog I've ever had any real contact with before Kuma was a small mutt.
    But I tend to think that people that want a dog just for looks and are willing to feed all the hype of the "designer breeds" will be disappointed by mutts, since it's not as cool to say "I have a mutt" than to say "I have a "ShibaMos/Labradoodle/whatever".
    I'm generalizing, I know, and it's probably stereotypical of me but it might be worth a try.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    Idiot!!! He's actually looking for a mutt....to spend money on.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    yeah I'd go with the mutt route and say there doesn't seem to be any real benefit in joining the two breeds, you can't guarantee temperament and health isn't really a concern with 'designer' breeds so besides spending a pretty penny for a mutt, he's probably end up paying even MORE in vet bills to maintain the poor thing.
    Or you can go the guilt route and propose he think about what happens to all the ugly pups that don't look like the designer protocol... no body wants those dogs.

    Although I hate this designer breed craze, there are some developing breeds that I'm interested in because they are meant for a purpose, they are working breeds. ShibaMo's are not bred for any particular purpose that I am aware other than looks, right?
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    edited November -1
    Real quick....for what it's worth....I have seen two "shemos" and I would say the mixing did not bring out the best attributes. Actually it brought together the genes you don't want heightened, hyperactivity, over reactiveness, and timidness. Not a good mix if you have kids or a really well rounded dog emotionally. They really were not very pretty either.....but that is a subjective thing.

    Snf
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    edited November -1
    I saw an Eski-Inu in a Scamps pet store for $500 last year. It was the most terrible thing I have seen so far regarding shibas. Intentionally breeding two seperate breeds to serve no other purpose then to sell does nothing to improve the gene pool. Outcrossing and the development of new breeds expands the gene pool, but whoever is doing it should be aiming towards a better working/functioning dog ie "form follows function." In this case with the mix, the best qualities of both breeds are diminished and the shiba and american eskimo mixed together does nothing to create a better functioning dog superior to its parent breed. I'm preaching to the choir I think, but overall, I am not a fan of designer breeds unless they are actually made to do something other than "be good lapdogs or family pets," the shelters are full of mixed breed lap dogs and good family pets waiting for homes.
  • KaddyKaddy
    edited November -1
    The response from the GROUP ORGANIZER! :o(

    "I do agree with pet shops having puppy Mills. But pet shops even sale pure breed Shiba's that come from puppy mills as well.
    I have breed ShibaMo's. Many of the members in this meet up group have pups from my two Shiba-Mo's. My dogs where hand picked by myself. Even flying all the way to Oklahoma to deal with good breeding stock.
    What it all comes down to is knowing the breeder. Many of the people who took home pups from me where allowed to come to my home after two or three weeks of birth. The new owners could come every week to bond with their puppy.
    My pups were started on potty training before leaving to their new homes as well. This way the new owners only had to reward the process. Many people have told me after a week or so their dog was potty trained and the pup knew what the owner wanted of them.
    Yes ShibaMo's are a designer breed, Many of them comes from puppy Mills. Pretty much every dog from a pet store is a puppy mill dog. Just keep in mind that you will find many bad breeders of Shiba Inu as well.
    The best thing to do is make sure the breeder lets you see the environment, allows you to bond and handle the pups. This is because the mother dog will also react to a person for the breeder and puppy's sake.
    Being a single dad with two children, ShibaMo's would be easier for you.
    ShibaMo's still have every aspect and attitude of the Shiba Inu, with a few plus attributes.
    1 They come when called most of the time
    2 The have the Eskimo attribute, Loyal to one owner of their choosing. A Eskimo pics the one person they will
    always love and listen to the most, while still being loyal to the whole family.
    3 You do not have the hip and knee problems that the Shiba's have, with little or no Skin allergy problems.
    4 All in all they are Shiba Inu. The Shiba characteristic is very dominant in this breed.

    They are friendly, affectionate, independent, possessive, intelligent, clever, athletic, very fast (when they don't want you to catch them), in your face when you do anything new or eat anything, close by to find a lap when sleepy, toe lickers, ball chasers, thieves, friends or chasers of cats, depending upon whose cat it is and what time of day it is, sturdy, healthy, a good companion, cute, alert, beautiful show stoppers when you walk them in public and easy to scoop up in your arms when you need to hold them.
    As a breed they are powerful, agile, clever, love your food better than theirs, have incredible hearing, sight and sense of smell, and are really, really fast. They love to be in your face when you do stuff. They have a terrible "Shiba Scream" when they are not getting their way, but will respond to patient, consistent, firm, loving training. Some of that screaming can be worked out with the early leash training.
    A Shiba will insinuate itself into the fabric of your life. They will protect you from a threatening stranger. They tell you when someone approaches and when the mailman and UPS truck come. They share sun with the cats or chase them, whatever the situation calls for. One cherishes the stuffed toys we buy him, the others tear the stuffing out immediately. They steal from each other and us. They will slip into your chair in the blink of an eye.
    These dogs learn fast. They will learn lots of stuff, even things you don't want them too. They are also preoccupied with with all of their environment and sometimes choose not to hear you, having more interesting things to pay attention to.
    Good luck in your search, only make sure you are able to meet the breeder with a Shiba Inu or Shibamo puppy."

    Needless to say I left that meetup group... :o(
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    edited November -1
    Are they a recognized shiba breeder? Like with the National Shiba Club or AKC?
  • KaddyKaddy
    edited November -1
    I don't think so... not that I could find anyway. I was going to report them if they were.
  • AkiraleShibaAkiraleShiba
    edited November -1
    People make me sad, I once saw an add for shibadoodles *makes me sick*
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    edited November -1
    Kaddy, is that the Portland Shiba Meetup Group????? That makes me furious!!!!! Oklahoma is where tons of puppy mills are, best breeding stock my ass. That is totally not the attitude of the Seattle group because we have 5 top shiba breeders who are very active in the breed in regards to showing, living in Washington with extremely high standards for their pups and the families they go to. Hip dysplasia is NOT a problem for well bred shibas nor are skin issues so if they are thoughtfully bred dogs, they shouldn't be seeing it-where does this person get that garbage? Luxating patellas is common by degrees, again, in certain breeding populations of shibas, namely those people that are breeding at home with the neighbors dog, from puppy mills, etc. Responsible breeders know their stock and have spent decades researching their lines to breed flaws out. That is pure rubbish, what a moron-and this is the group organizer? I am shocked, good for you for walking away. It sounds more like this guy is using the meetup as a front to sell his mix breed designer puppies. Nobody that is truely deidcated to the breed would even consider that (pause to breathe). For instance, I have been waiting for 1 year so far, to get a dog from Leslie Engen up here in Redmond north of Seattle. I have gone through the necessary hoops to get set up for this new boy and to get my ducks in a row so she feels comfortable sending him to me, and it took 1 year but she gaurantees her dogs for life. I get to pick him up next week for a 2 week trial!. I bet this shiba-mo breeder would faint if he was required to do the same. This nutt supports pet stores and I bet that eski-inu/shiba-mo I saw in the Portland Scamps at Lloyd Center was 1 of his poor dogs. How sad.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    "sounds more like this guy is using the meetup as a front to sell his mix breed designer puppies"

    sadly, thats what I thought, too. That sucks.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    edited November -1
    I looked at the Portland Shiba Meetup site, your comments were good Kaddy and pointed. I saw some pictures of their shiba-mos, they had long white hair and spots-----black spots. Again, if you love the breed, why would you want to drastically alter it like that, for the Am Esk and the Shiba. That isn't exactly putting too good temperments together anyways, good breeding aside, thats a recipe for a nervous nippy dog.
  • KaddyKaddy
    edited November -1
    Yeah, I'm just glad I realized what that group was all about before Keiko turned old enough to go to the dog park. I actually had one last post on there explaining that I was leaving the group because I didn't believe what the group leader was selling - but he deleted it.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    Ok, I can't read anymore. This is infuriating!!!!
  • artmaster1artmaster1
    edited November -1
    The Portland Shiba group.
    Wow this guy works with Shiba Inu rescue by posting discussions on his site for help with Shiba Inu rescue.
    He is also working with the legislation lobby to stop all sales of Shiba Inu or Shiba mix breeds in pet shops. Nice thing about started something like that in Oregon is it spreads to other states.
    With his business, 10% of profits is designated to donations and charities of the Shiba Inu breed and other dog breeds as well.
    He does not breed anymore, dogs are spayed.
    And the web page is not designed to sell the Mix breed, but a place for Shiba lovers to share and swap stories. He even promotes people going to Shiba4life.net rescue when they are looking for a Shiba Inu.
    People make choices and a lot are done by impulse of a cute puppy no matter what the breed or mix.
    For anyone who would like to make the changes in any state, here is the process to make the lobby change to get dog mills banned from Pet Shop sells.

    Information from lawyers, state legislator and Portland Shiba Inu Group;

    Step 1 - Write in very simple terms exactly what you want to accomplish with the legislation.

    I would describe your idea as this simply. Definingwhat a "puppy mill" is in the Oregon law books and then requiring that any puppy originating for sale in a pet-store must be labeled as a "Puppy-Mill Bred Dog". We had discussed a puppy mill being any breeder producing more than say 12 dogs a year for sale. This would discourage the big stores from carrying puppy mill dogs in the state of Oregon. It also would likely spread to other states.

    Step 2 - Find a friendly legislator (not hard given you are representing puppies).

    Step 3 - Get a "Note from Mother" from your friendly legislator to get the Legislative Council's Office to draft your legislation. The Legislative Council's Office is the organization at the Capital that drafts laws for Legisltors to ensure they are Constitutional. If you paid an attorney to do this it would be very expensive (this is essentially the "hook-up").

    Step 4 - Do a little research and find all politically active groups that might be friendly (or against) your legislative idea. When you find the friendly Legislators that you want to work with they will inform you of likely groups that would be inclined to work for or against you.

    Step 5 - Do your background research and produce your arguments. You need stats, the reasoning for a public policy alteration, and the benefit if your law is passed.

    Step 6 - Build a coalition. Find every legislator that will sponsor, support, and vote for your legislation. Also ask for endorsements from every group conceivable so that you build awareness. You can do this now primarily over the phone.

    Step 7 - Get the legislation sponsored and off to a committee assignment at the Legislature in both the State House and Senate. Contact all the news papers about what you are doing.

    Step 8 - Organize to turn out supporters to lobby while the legislation is being heard. If you find a friendly trade association or lobbying group to work with their people will even help you organize.

    Step 9 - Prey to god your legislation passes. If it doesn't pass think about pulling off an Initiative or coming back the next session. Initiatives are even more difficult but if you used the grass-roots of Doggy Day Care's, small scale breeders, and the various animal rights groups you might be able to get it on the ballot.


    I would not look at a child or person differently because they are a mix of different nationalities or race. I hold my same standards of life with people as I do any creature in the world.
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    edited November -1
    I will never understand the decision for anyone to create a designer breed. I had a couple of mutts growing up, had a lot of pups from backyard breeders, and had a few dogs that were purebreeds. Those mutts that I had, I loved - they were just as precious to me as the purebreeds. To be honest, I never classified them by how they came into being. I'm older now and a lot wiser. There are plenty of breeds out there, we need no more. We need no more oopsies and back yard breeders. We need no puppy mills. I am a proponent of rescue and responsible breeders. My next shiba (whenever that is) - I have no idea if it will be a purchase or a rescue.

    To intentionally breed a shiba with any other dog breed is horrible. This goes for those labradoodle breeders and all those other mutt breeders, as well. My niece (the one who got the pug) - her boyfriend's family are oopsie breeders. I talked with her about getting Sally spayed. At first she was talking about what good lines and that Sally could have some really pretty puppies. Then she talked about what a hard time, her bf's parents were having selling the puppies. They've since decided to have their 2 dogs spayed & neutered - it was an oopsie that resulted in these puppies. They've rectified the issue with their male and soon will with their female.

    I hate that you had a bad experience before you ever got to the meetup group - they can be a lot of fun and you can great freinds. Hopefully others will read your post and understand why a designer mutt is not a good thing.

    Sorry for the rambling - hopefully this makes better sense than what I think it does.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    And bravo to you, LJ! I agree with your rambling!
  • tobyshibatobyshiba
    edited November -1
    We share concern for the purebred dogs that we love. There should not be any reason at all to be purposely breeding a Shiba and an American Eskimo together. There's nothing cute about them, and you cannot guarantee a temperament of a mix breed. They can get the best and the worst of both worlds. So, issues from the American Eskimo could combine with the issues of the Shiba and you'd have a horrible mix breed dog that could eventually have horrible health issues down the road.

    I think of all the designer breeds, I mostly agree with the breeding of Labradoodles. They ( generally ) respond very well to commands, but some of the mixes also eliminate shedding. Lots of Labradoodles are being used as seeing eye dogs, therapy, ect. If people breed them right, and breed them with health testing, they could potentially eliminate shedding all together and flesh out a standard. But, if they only see the light of day in puppy mills, this day will never come.
  • NekopanNekopan
    edited November -1
    I don't even agree with the breeding of Labradoodles. Why not just use standard Poodles for seeing eye dogs, therapy, etc? You cannot guarantee a Labradoodle will not shed, since not even all Poodles don't shed (does that sentence make sense?). Some Labradoodles even continually grow hair (like a Poodle) AND shed. *shudder* And even if you manage to get a non-shedding one, they are not hypoallergenic like a Poodle.

    Not to mention you actually have an increase in hip dysplasia, congenital heart disease and elbow dysplasia from adding the Labrador. Poodles have a higher instance of skin disorders, patellar luxation, and eye diseases. Unless you do extensive health screening, I don't see how a designer breed could possibly be healthier.
  • artmaster1artmaster1
    edited November -1
    It is sad when you actually go to a Shiba group to work with Legislation so we can ban Shiba Inu or Mixed Shiba's from pet shops and puppy farms.
    And you get no help. My heart is broken.
    All the talk about the breed, and unless we go to the state to lobby nothing will change. Puppy mills will get worse, they will win.
    You don't want mix Shiba's or any other mix, laws have to be made. You and I are the ones that change that. People get it put on ballots.
    Rise up, cut it off at the head of the problem.
    Do you think our economics are going to make anything better?
    People will breed dogs for that quick buck. You will see the problem get worse. People will have dogs and won't be able pay to fix them, and why would they when they can make a dollar because of the Economy creating a job loss for them.
    Wow people really?
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    I closed this discussion because it is basically happening in 2 different threads.

    Any further discussion on this topic should be done in this thread:

    http://www.nihonken.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2141

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This discussion has been closed.

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