Shiba Meet up Group
The Portland Shiba group.
Wow this guy works with Shiba Inu rescue by posting discussions on his site for help with Shiba Inu rescue.
He is also working with the legislation lobby to stop all sales of Shiba Inu or Shiba mix breeds in pet shops. Nice thing about started something like that in Oregon is it spreads to other states.
With his business, 10% of profits is designated to donations and charities of the Shiba Inu breed and other dog breeds as well.
He does not breed anymore, dogs are spayed.
And the web page is not designed to sell the Mix breed, but a place for Shiba lovers to share and swap stories. He even promotes people going to Shiba4life.net rescue when they are looking for a Shiba Inu.
People make choices and a lot are done by impulse of a cute puppy no matter what the breed or mix.
For anyone who would like to make the changes in any state, here is the process to make the lobby change to get dog mills banned from Pet Shop sells.
Information from lawyers, state legislator and Portland Shiba Inu Group;
Step 1 - Write in very simple terms exactly what you want to accomplish with the legislation.
I would describe your idea as this simply. Definingwhat a "puppy mill" is in the Oregon law books and then requiring that any puppy originating for sale in a pet-store must be labeled as a "Puppy-Mill Bred Dog". We had discussed a puppy mill being any breeder producing more than say 12 dogs a year for sale. This would discourage the big stores from carrying puppy mill dogs in the state of Oregon. It also would likely spread to other states.
Step 2 - Find a friendly legislator (not hard given you are representing puppies).
Step 3 - Get a "Note from Mother" from your friendly legislator to get the Legislative Council's Office to draft your legislation. The Legislative Council's Office is the organization at the Capital that drafts laws for Legisltors to ensure they are Constitutional. If you paid an attorney to do this it would be very expensive (this is essentially the "hook-up").
Step 4 - Do a little research and find all politically active groups that might be friendly (or against) your legislative idea. When you find the friendly Legislators that you want to work with they will inform you of likely groups that would be inclined to work for or against you.
Step 5 - Do your background research and produce your arguments. You need stats, the reasoning for a public policy alteration, and the benefit if your law is passed.
Step 6 - Build a coalition. Find every legislator that will sponsor, support, and vote for your legislation. Also ask for endorsements from every group conceivable so that you build awareness. You can do this now primarily over the phone.
Step 7 - Get the legislation sponsored and off to a committee assignment at the Legislature in both the State House and Senate. Contact all the news papers about what you are doing.
Step 8 - Organize to turn out supporters to lobby while the legislation is being heard. If you find a friendly trade association or lobbying group to work with their people will even help you organize.
Step 9 - Prey to god your legislation passes. If it doesn't pass think about pulling off an Initiative or coming back the next session. Initiatives are even more difficult but if you used the grass-roots of Doggy Day Care's, small scale breeders, and the various animal rights groups you might be able to get it on the ballot.
I would not look at a child or person differently because they are a mix of different nationalities or race. I hold my same standards of life with people as I do any creature in the world.
Wow this guy works with Shiba Inu rescue by posting discussions on his site for help with Shiba Inu rescue.
He is also working with the legislation lobby to stop all sales of Shiba Inu or Shiba mix breeds in pet shops. Nice thing about started something like that in Oregon is it spreads to other states.
With his business, 10% of profits is designated to donations and charities of the Shiba Inu breed and other dog breeds as well.
He does not breed anymore, dogs are spayed.
And the web page is not designed to sell the Mix breed, but a place for Shiba lovers to share and swap stories. He even promotes people going to Shiba4life.net rescue when they are looking for a Shiba Inu.
People make choices and a lot are done by impulse of a cute puppy no matter what the breed or mix.
For anyone who would like to make the changes in any state, here is the process to make the lobby change to get dog mills banned from Pet Shop sells.
Information from lawyers, state legislator and Portland Shiba Inu Group;
Step 1 - Write in very simple terms exactly what you want to accomplish with the legislation.
I would describe your idea as this simply. Definingwhat a "puppy mill" is in the Oregon law books and then requiring that any puppy originating for sale in a pet-store must be labeled as a "Puppy-Mill Bred Dog". We had discussed a puppy mill being any breeder producing more than say 12 dogs a year for sale. This would discourage the big stores from carrying puppy mill dogs in the state of Oregon. It also would likely spread to other states.
Step 2 - Find a friendly legislator (not hard given you are representing puppies).
Step 3 - Get a "Note from Mother" from your friendly legislator to get the Legislative Council's Office to draft your legislation. The Legislative Council's Office is the organization at the Capital that drafts laws for Legisltors to ensure they are Constitutional. If you paid an attorney to do this it would be very expensive (this is essentially the "hook-up").
Step 4 - Do a little research and find all politically active groups that might be friendly (or against) your legislative idea. When you find the friendly Legislators that you want to work with they will inform you of likely groups that would be inclined to work for or against you.
Step 5 - Do your background research and produce your arguments. You need stats, the reasoning for a public policy alteration, and the benefit if your law is passed.
Step 6 - Build a coalition. Find every legislator that will sponsor, support, and vote for your legislation. Also ask for endorsements from every group conceivable so that you build awareness. You can do this now primarily over the phone.
Step 7 - Get the legislation sponsored and off to a committee assignment at the Legislature in both the State House and Senate. Contact all the news papers about what you are doing.
Step 8 - Organize to turn out supporters to lobby while the legislation is being heard. If you find a friendly trade association or lobbying group to work with their people will even help you organize.
Step 9 - Prey to god your legislation passes. If it doesn't pass think about pulling off an Initiative or coming back the next session. Initiatives are even more difficult but if you used the grass-roots of Doggy Day Care's, small scale breeders, and the various animal rights groups you might be able to get it on the ballot.
I would not look at a child or person differently because they are a mix of different nationalities or race. I hold my same standards of life with people as I do any creature in the world.
Comments
My business is designating 10% profits to Shiba Inu pure breeds and other dog breeds as well, but sometimes the close mindedness of it all is frustrating. My donations to other breeds don't judge me because of the breed I have. They are happy that I am willing and able to help!
I understand the pride everyone has for the breed, but what do we do with the "outcasts" (Mix)?
I see pure breed Shiba's in dog stores all the time. I work one block away from one and it breaks my heart when I see them in a cage with poop all over, dirty and coughing from kennel cough. It angers me actually.
I wish I could rescue everyone of them, and there is no discrepancy from them if it is a mix or pure breed.
I guess people always be close minded in one way or another. It can be with politics, people, or animals.
Just the other day I was frowned upon for being a POW in the US Army. Sad but all I can do in the mean time is work on getting legislation's change.
Thanks for the help
Juan
That is the greater concern, not that these mixed dogs already exist - but that someone is breeding them intentionally to market of the 'rarity' of the mix as a designer breed. Just the mere calling it a "ShibaMo" creates the illusion of some fabulous breed of dog when in reality it is a mutt most often bred for profit.
I don't believe anyone on this forum or else where is so high and mighty that they would not think any life to be sacred, whether pure bred life or not. I fear that many opportunists would take, breed and sell these dogs without responsibility to petstores just because of the cuteness factors as pups. And we all know many puppy mills take full advantage of opportunistic marketing, deceiving the public just to make a buck. Puppy mills have no value for the lives of the dogs, this assumption I base solely on the health and condition of the dogs as well as the overall practices of those mills.
That is where my concern is anyway.
I apologize to all the forums members for bringing my rant to this forum - it wasn't my intention to start an internet argument.
I started with the mix and would never make a conscious decision to mix a pure breed with a mix or any other dog. I have how ever breed what I have.
My dogs are spayed, and I work with the outcast Shiba's as well. All dogs need homes, every mix and breed out there is need of help. I choose to help the Pure breed Shiba with the Mixed ones.
Believe me, dogs in the US are very loved. I have lived and worked in 14 countries, 16 different states in the US. I have seen and know how the rest of the world treats their dogs. When I was ten I watched people put a dog in a bag and shoot it seven times. Each shoot had a howl behind it as well. This was because of some stupid myth you have to kill a dog that way, they still believe that today. I watched people hang a dog with a rope because in their country they cannot afford to put the dog to sleep with a vet bill. I was helpless to stop it no matter what my pleads or sacrifices. When I was in Korea I saw dogs hanging as meat in meat markets along with the chicken and pigs.
Japan has worse puppy mills than the US and that is with the Shiba Inu alone. The government does nothing about it and the dogs have worse conditions than our pet shops. That is their National dog.
I love Shiba Inu dogs. But there are the ones out there that are mixed. And those are the ones that need help finding a home as well as the Pure breed Shiba Inu that needs a home also.
I do not breed anymore, but I will work on finding homes for pure breed to Mix dogs(two breeds combined). Keep in mind Muts are three breeds or more.
I have an international importing business, my product is sold with the intention of donations for 3 things. Animals, Cancer and education. If anyone wants I will even put 20% sales anyone makes in my region toward any dog group of your choosing. You are the one doing the work though.
I will educate the person with a mix breed as well as the one with a pure. Honest to the point. The gentleman who came to the meet up to do his research is very respected by me. At least he was doing his research. I personally mentioned Shiba4life Rescue, Other Shiba Inu owners who have bought there dogs from breeders in Washington and Shiba Inu breeders in Washington. He spoke to Pure breed and mix breed owners, I gave him my personal experience with my dogs. Everyone of us saying "NO" to pet shops.
But if I have a chance to find a home for any dog, mixed or pure. I will find a home for them when the person is qualified.
Again I agree with the designer breed opinions, my dogs are no better or worse than any other dog. I can only learn from the endless amount of love they give me.
What kind of unconditional love is it when your dog is happier to see you the longer it takes you to get home. If only we could learn from these characteristics the world would be a better place.
My dogs don't care he or she has Shiba friends, they just like their friends. And that brings me and them endless amounts of joy at our meet ups.
What do I mean by "a purpose"? You should have a reason why your dog is special and will contribute positively to the gene pool. I don't mean "Fluffy is just sooo cute, there should be more Fluffys in the world!" That's the worst reason to breed an animal. Breeding stock should have excellent temperment to begin with. Then you should have some sort of goal for bettering the breed. This is mostly taken as conformation titles, but it is shown in other ways as well. Agility, obedience, tracking, etc. If breeding a livestock guardian, it should excel in guarding livestock. A retriever should have strong retrieving skills. A herder should have herding instincts and so on. If your breeding does not create animals superior to the parents in some way, then it was superfluous.
It is also important to do extensive health screening on both sire and dam. Genetic diseases are saddeningly prominent in pets these days. These diseases will only increase if people continue to be careless.
Those are the reasons why I have problems with designer breeds. They are intentionally created mutts, and the breeders rarely, if ever, meet the criteria I outlined above. They are not bred for the love of animals, they are bred for a quick buck.
agreed, Kyla!
Like I said I will find homes for any Pure breed Shiba or Shiba Mix. The fact of the matter is; the mix is out there. So what do we do about it? Granted I had contributed before seeing the error of my ways.
Does anyone know the definition of evil winning?
When no good person stands up against evil, evil wins. It is the same with all matters in life. When no one stands for the ones that cannot defend themselves, the dogs that did not have the choice to be mixed. Then they are the ones that lose.
And I really do not want to go into a quick buck. That conversation would anger many.
if you really want to get rid of puppy mills, sell the pure breed for less. See how many people you will have to interview for a good home. At least you are stopping them from buying a puppy mill dogs. Sad but True
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2138&page=1
----
1)Juan, I am comfortable in stating that none of us would or have discriminated against mixed breed dogs. I and many other take issues with people (especially those who are not geneticists) take it upon themselves to "create" new breeds. We are a gathering of people who love dogs. If you read over the many threads on this forum that is readily apparent.
which brings me to 2
2)There are a good number of us who work tirelessly in animal rescue. I personally work in dog (NOT BREED SPECIFIC, ALL DOG) rescue as my full time job (for which I do without financial compensation). We strive to find homes for ALL homeless dogs, not just shibas or shiba mixes. Please do not make such sweeping judgments of our group. This forum is a gathering of people who love animals, not just dogs for that matter. I am sure you will have many valuable contributions. Please just take the time to get to know us.
3)Stopping puppy mills is only one part of the fight.. Education however in my opinion, is infinitely more effective than legislation. Educating people about the true requirements of responsible dog guardianship, education in where our dogs come from, and education about how to communicate and cohabitate with the dogs in our world.
4)I am concerned with your suggestion that breeders lowering their prices is the solution. We have a number of exceptional breeders on this forum; and all of them will tell you, that they LOSE money on their breeding programs. With proper genetic testing, veterinary care, and then just the time love and devotion these breeders put into their programs, if anything they should RAISE their prices. Price has nothing to do with the existence of puppy mill dogs and pet stores. We are a society of NOW. I want to be thin NOW, I want to eat NOW, I want expensive things NOW, I want a dog NOW. These are the people who are not willing to wait a year for a healthy well bred dog. They want what they want NOW.
Basically where there is a demand, there will be a less than ethical person willing to supply. Period.
As you get to know us you will learn that from the sounds of what everyone is writing, for the most part we are fighting on the same side.
"I and many other take issues with people (especially those who are not geneticists) take it upon themselves to "create" new breeds"
First off, I seriously doubt there are many if any breeders (responsible or otherwise) that have any background in genetics. I do agree that the 'average joe' shouldn't just go breeding to see what you would get when you cross...
I am in the middle of a great book called "The Dog's Mind" and if you are somewhat of a science geek like me, then you'd probably enjoy it. Anyway, there is a section that talks about genetics and talks generally about how all of the differing dog breeds came about by breeding for desirable traits (which everyone knows). The author references a study done where 62 dogs were judged based on 'conformation' qualities (i.e. meeting breed standard) by a number of non-biased show judges. I won't go into it too much detail, but basically he says that by breeding to conformation (or breed standards) can often perpetuate negative temperament qualities within the breed. Here are a couple quotes from this section of the book that I found interesting:
"Dr. I. Stur has gone on record as saying this about dogs, 'the more beautiful a dog is, the worse is its constitution'"
"What Dr. Stur observed was that, according to the 'unbiased' judging, there was a negative correlation between 'form value' and 'constitution'. 'Form value' in fact means breed standards. Stur argues that by selectively breeding only to morphological breed standards, we unknowingly breed similar genes that affect behaviour."
"…there is a distinct difference in the temperament of the show golden retriever and the working lines in that breed. Show lines can be more flighty, even aggressive, while working line retain the calmness of nature that originally made them good field dogs"
I'm not jumping on anyone's case here and I am not arguing in favour of pet stores, puppy mills or designer breeds. I'm just trying to keep an open mind and present another side of the story that some don't consider: that there are some potential downfalls for breeding to a set of breed 'standards' (which like it or not, are arbitrarily decided). I read on a shiba group a while back where a breeder was attacked by several 'reputable' breeders and the rest of the forum for breeding shibas that were smaller than the standard, but showed exemplary temperaments (less of the shiba quirks/difficulties and more 'willingness') and made better pets to the average owner. I don't know about you, but to me that is nothing but positive and I would imagine lead to fewer shibas in rescues.
One last quote from this book to leave you with:
"Theoretically, undesirable behaviours in dogs can be altered or avoided by careful attention to genetic influence but, in fact, we still breed primarily for morphology and often simply for curiosity. By doing so, we retain within the genetic repertoire of the dog, a genetic pool of what can only be described as harmful recessive genes, genes that might on one hand create the morphology that we desire, but that on the other hand might be linked with a deterioration in maternal care or a carelessness in hygiene or an increased tendency to snap at children"
Well, sorry to be so longwinded but I usually just lurk so I figured I'd better get my words in while I can. That is just my 2 cents…your mileage may vary
Cheers
Mike
What you quoted form that "unbiased" judging is, in my opinion, what makes the difference between a breeder and a responsible breeder. Responsible breeders will breed to standard while taking into consideration the temperament. You'll find examples of that in this forum, of dogs that came from breeders that have world champions in conformation shows and that have excellent temperament. It is possible, I assure you to keep in mind and perform a selection based on those two premises. It takes a lot of work and dedication, and that defines a responsible breeder.
About the Shiba example: Breeders didn't invent the breed standard. The country responsible for the breed writes the standard, and breeders will try to breed to follow that. I haven't read the Shiba standard in a while, I must confess, so I'm not sure of what it says. But the "Shiba temperament" is quite typical of the breed. If that breeder you talked about was trying to create a line of smaller Shiba that, to top it off, weren't typical Shibas in temperament, he wasn't contributing to help the breed as single bit. The Shiba quirks are what draws a lot of people to them, and normally those people will be the responsible Shiba owners that understand the typical temperament of a Shiba and still want one (or more) in their lives. By creating a smaller Shiba, that doesn't have those traces of character, the breeder was only catering to the "needs" of those who like the looks of the Shiba but do not understand the breed, and still want one.
AKC Shiba Inu Temperament STANDARD is:
A spirited boldness, a good nature, and an unaffected forthrightness, which together yield dignity and natural beauty. The Shiba has an independent nature and can be reserved toward strangers but is loyal and affectionate to those who earn his respect. At times aggressive toward other dogs, the Shiba is always under the control of his handler. Any aggression toward handler or judge or any overt shyness must be severely penalized.
CKC:
TEMPERAMENT
Spirited boldness, good nature, and independence characterize the Shiba temperament. Extremely lively and fun-loving with their families. While sometimes aloof with strangers, aggression to humans or extreme shyness to be severely penalized. Shibas may not tolerate other dogs' intrusions, and will display aggression if challenged.
Per Westminster's Website (this one is my favorite)
Though small in stature, Shiba Inu are brave and determined dogs. Originally bred to flush birds and small game, and occasionally used to hunt wild boar, they are now kept primarily as pets. However, they have a strong predisposition to escape at any opportunity. They can never be reliably trained to return when called, nor can they ever be trusted off lead. They also tend to be dog aggressive, so care must be taken to protect them and to protect other dogs from them. They are a healthy, intelligent breed, constantly providing challenges to their owners.
The FCI site is down, it seems, so I'm not able to get the standard from there.
I think it may be the case that this discussion got off on the wrong foot. Bits and pieces of another discussion happening off of this forum were posted here and so many of us had already begun to form an opinion of the parties involved. I think what most people were reacting to was not that someone was breeding Shimos (or whatever) but that it appeared to us that it was not being done responsibly. I couldn't care less if someone bred a chihuahua to a great dane if they could make a legit argument as to why it was a good idea.
Poor breeding practices are something that we all take very seriously around here. And, more importantly, poor breeding practices are not limited to pure bred dogs. They can effect mutts and "designer breeds" as well. While its easy to point out some of the obvious drawbacks to having conformation standards, they do serve a very important purpose. The point of having a standard is to give a direction to strive for perfection. You will notice that breed standards do include information about temperament. Perhaps the issue is not the standard, but the fact that temperament plays such a small role in the judging criteria at dog shows.
Responsible breeding takes a LOT of time and money. Knowing what I know of others on the forum, I suspect people were responding to the appearance that none of that effort went into that breeding program. The appearance that two dogs were haphazardly bred and promoted to someone who may likely patronize a puppy mill in an effort to find one is what bothered us. Crossing breeds to increase genetic variation is a great tool when left to the professionals. When creating a new breed, people work together to define a common goal for the breed that includes conformation and temperament. They carefully select blood lines to cross to get as much genetic variation as possible. Simply breeding two dogs together because you want to, you like the idea, you like their looks, or you like their temperament is just as irresponsible as poorly breeding two dogs of the same breed.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
But a sound temperment is only relative to others in the group it is being compared to. I know that the shiba temperment is typical of the breed and that there are a lot of people that love it. I think that's wonderful and completely understand why they are strongly in favour of maintaining that. I only brought up that breeder example to put things into perspective and I honestly have limited knowledge based the little I read and can't make any comments on whether they were responsible or just in it for a buck. However, the fact is that so many people (myself included) are drawn to the shiba because of its looks and who could argue, but how many shibas end up in rescue or worse because they were chosen because they are so cute and a convenient size and the owner didn't know (or understand) what he was getting himself into with all of the shiba 'quirks'. You can try to inform people all you want, but from what I have seen, the 'average person' is a dog lover, not a truly knowledgable dog owner. So keeping this in mind, how is breeding a dog for more well rounded temperment (that may not match the 'Standard' to a tee) not helping the breed if it means more dogs in happy loving homes? The 'shiba temperment' is a result of selective breeding for it's original purpose of hunting. If it's general purpose is now a companion dog, why shouldn't a breeder (who is still responsible) select for a more 'manageble' temperment?
Cheers
Mike
I agree with everything you wrote....very well put!
Cheers
Mike
I agree with educating people, and was a little angered that I was called a "Moron" on this web page because I have Shiba Mix and a gentleman was looking for a Shiba Inu Mixed dog when he came to a Shiba Inu Meet up. And they called this guy an "idiot". He came to a meet up to do research before the purchase of a dog, that is commendable and respectful, he was not impulse buying!!! Why would anyone call someone doing research an idiot?
Like I said before I will work on finding any homeless dog a home. Shiba Inu or Mix.
I do work with other breeds as well, but that is more of international donations and fixing dogs in South America when I am able to volunteer down there.
Another matter I would like to address is the remark that I use the site to sell pups. Any pup of mine became a member after they had my puppy's. No one will find any remark about "sales" or "need a home for a puppy" on the website page from me or anyone else.
You will however find discussion when I receive an e-mail about help finding a Shiba Inu a home from rescue groups or Shelters. Many of my members even add these bulletins themselves when they see an add on Craigslist or other web pages.
The other bulletins you will find are things like: How to treat heatstroke in a dog, furminator, chewing issue, anything to help educate the Shiba owner, anything to share with knowledge or fun facts.
Last I have to apologize about the remark with selling pure breed for less. I let my emotions get the better of me and made a remark I should not have. I understand everything that go's into breeding and I am sorry for that remark. Please forgive me everyone.
I felt like I had to bite or growl, everyone knows how that can get.
1. I posted to the original poster on the other site that he shouldn't be looking for a designer breed, and he should steer clear of pet stores. It seems we're all in agreement here about that. (I would link the sight, but it was changed to a private sight yesterday - Lindsay saw the post and can vouch that I did no name calling or finger pointing)
2. I never called that poster an idiot - I don't even know where that's coming from.
I tried to be helpful, and I don't regret it, however, I wasn't prepared for this kind of discussion - so I'm going to take a break from this thread for a while.
Many of them are from champion breeders in Washington and around the US.
For example many are from Taichung Shibas, Oakville WA. and many other breeders in Washington. Great breeders with wonderful dogs.
What I have noticed is it all boils down to the owner. Many of these pure breeds are extremely shy and timid. A few are a little overly aggressive, aggressive to the point the owners will show up without the dogs because they are embarrassed about it.
On the other hand you have the ones that are the perfect temperament.
I read a lot of understanding a dogs behavior books, how the dog's brain works, (Which is remarkable because it has the basic three lobes of humans brains with the same chemical reactions for the basic emotions of fear and happiness). A little nerdy but always valuable information.
Basically it boils down to the owner. If you have a pure breed and the owner is not the greatest, you can have a worse dog than the mut next door or down the street.
One wonderful thing I have to say about Shiba Inu owners is they are always willing to learn anything to help their loved ones become better emotionally stable animals. Perfect example is when an owner is at a meet up and does not take their dog off of a leash. This creates tension down the leash to the dog, making the dog defensive or aggressive. Once the owner removes the leash, it is amazing the difference of temperament. We of course have spray bottle for the unwanted behavior at meet ups. A gentle and easy way to keep our dogs in control as well.
* sujewel
* CommentTime1 day ago
Report Post | block user | block comment
Idiot!!! He's actually looking for a mutt....to spend money on.Barbara & Kurt - Mika and Keigo (Akita Inus); Jewel and Brittney (Kitties)
I certainly understand why you may feel defensive, but I think this discussion had moved on to a higher-level, intellectual, conversation and I'd like for it to stay at that level.
We are all dog lovers here, and we all appreciate your rescue efforts. You should be able to recognize that any pre-existing posts, whether based on assumption or not, were just a reflection of the forum members' indivisual passion(s) for the Shiba Inu breed. All of us want what's best for the breeds we love.
As a fellow Shiba lover & owner you should feel welcome here and not defensive.
----
Lets all try to keep away from cross posting on this forum.
----
I am not trying to argue with you, and I am not saying you stated these things. I am saying the post said I was a Moran and the gentleman was a Idiot.
You personally did not state these comments.
I just feel that if I am talked about in a negative manner I have the right to defend myself. Sorry that is just the P.O.W in me.
I have no hard feelings about you, your opinions or idea's. I respect them and hope you don't have any hard feelings.
Here is another post from the other post on this web site
Here is this web sites link to the discussion
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2138&page=1
CommentAuthorlindsayt
* CommentTime1 day ago
Responsible breeders know their stock and have spent decades researching their lines to breed flaws out. That is pure rubbish, what a moron-and this is the group organizer? I am shocked, good for you for walking away. It sounds more like this guy is using the meetup as a front to sell his mix breed designer puppies.
Anyone can go to the Portland Shiba inu group and sign up
http://shibainu.meetup.com/108/
We will let sleeping dog lay.
This does anger me and my initial reaction remains the same, though I should've been more sensitive it my remark. This is however, my own opinion and I do not see how a conclusion that my opinion is the same as everyone on this board comes to play. I speak for myself only. In the future please feel free to whisper to me your objections. I would be happy to address.