Introducing another new Shikoku - Kuma
Well, I have been lurking her for a bit, but I thought I would post now that I have my new boy. I picked up Kuma from Ikon kennels (Peggy) a week ago. So far I have been nothing but completely pleased as he is a very good puppy who is fun to be around. He is super to train and is good in the house - plus he does have a fair amount of behaviors in common with my previous breed (Siberians) so I am pretty comfortable with training him.
So far, all the descriptions have fit - especially the calm in the house and active outside (fits him to a T), loyalty to owner, and the easy to house break. In his puppy class, he was by far the best behaved (and listened the best) and this was after only 3 d of being home (and traveling back from Holland 4 days earlier).
Comments
Wow - new Shikoku pups all over! Congrats on the new pup, he is super cute. Looks like Peggy is producing some great Shikoku (no surprise). I like the lighter color of the pups from this litter.
So these pups are from the litter mentioned in this thread:
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=373
????
Loa is 16 weeks now and about 15lb, at 8 weeks she was right at 10lb, at 11 weeks she was 13lb - so it sounds like Lao is just a tad bigger. Ahi, who is Loa's aunt, is a bit over a year now and 45lb.
When we picked up Loa we met Peggy (Peggy kinda delivered Loa to us, but Loa came from Katja) and she mentioned how stressful the situation with Sweety was - I'm glad everyone got their pups and are happy.
Yes, these are from the same litter that was in Holland. I am glad that everything worked out too. I have to say that this is one cool dog. And I cannot believe how much Sora looks like Kuma. Definitely a resemblance.
FWIW, Kuma weighs about 9.5 to 10 lbs now at 11 weeks. He didn't eat to well the first few days here (he would only eat dry food out of my hand and I had to stand with him while he ate - even with a bit of wet food on top). I did find out that he loves cooked eggs though (and tuna fish). I think that the trip home from Holland was very stressful for him and Sora (and the other white male too, most likely). He also HATED his crate. I am lucky in that I work from home so I rarely have to put him in it. He only now is going in and not yipping constantly.
Brad, Peggy says that the coats will get darker on these puppies, so it will be interesting to see what they look like in a few months. Although in general, they do not seem as dark as Katja's litter (I met Peggy's puppy from that litter - she is too cute).
OMG the crying in the crate! We both work during the day, but are able to go home for lunch, so right now she's home for 3-4 hrs at a time, and is so far really respecting the crate space (as long as we don't leave towels or pads in there). We crate trained all of our dogs, and while I have had a few days of crying, nothing like this. We've been doing this for over a week, and she is still holding out on crying in the crate. I just keep hoping it will end soon. It's not that she hates the crate, she eats in there, goes in and out of the cage, runs from the other dogs into there...and she's fine when she doesn't think we're there (at night she quiets pretty quickly, and goes through the night...but we've found she stays quieter, with less accidents, if she isn't in the same room with us). But if she knows we're around, and she wants to get out and play...that's when it starts. So, fingers crossed.
It's amazing how much Sora and Kuma resemble each other. It'll be really neat to see how they grow into the masculine/feminine versions of that - you can already see small differences. Are you planning on keeping Kuma intact? We were thinking of breeding Sora in 4-5 yrs, maybe importing a male from Japan. (Tommy likes the idea of getting a hokkaido and kishu as well...that could take a while).
I think she is right, they will get darker - Loa has darkened a lot... Ahi got very dark when she blew her puppy coat then got a lot lighter. Ahi is a pretty dark Shikoku tho. I like the lighter color, it's different.
Kuma sounds a bit like Maui as a pup - he had too much A.D.D. to eat his food... still does. I think Tenji and Ronan (2 other male Shikokus on this forum) had similar food A.D.D. too (???).
Peggy's pup from Katja was very cute - looked a lot like Ahi as a pup.
Well, I tried the crate for 2 nights, but after he pooped and peed in it immediately because he was so upset, I just let him out and he sleeps in our bedroom. To date, he has been perfect outside of the crate (and no accidents overnight - and I let him out once in the middle of the night). I just felt so, so tired the 2 nights he was in the crate because he cried very loudly for over an hour each time he was let out (and he needed to be let out once in the middle of the night) plus he had accidents in it and walked in it (Yuck!) and it was very hard at work the next day (all I wanted to do was SLEEP). I had crate trained other dogs (Siberians) and none were so upset as this Shikoku (but I do attribute it to the fact that they had to be in a crate for so long on their trip from Holland).
It will be neat to see how they change. I think Sora's face is a bit more dainty, but otherwise they look quite similar. I am planning on keeping him intact for a while - we may purchase a female Shikoku in the future (maybe from Katja or I will look into other options because obviously they cannot be related). I haven't decided yet. I already have a lot of my plate with a full time job, a bunch of horses I breed (and therefore have young foals to work with too), my hobby (riding horses), and having an active dog (plus I love obedience training). So I will have to see about breeding a litter (am I insane with everything else??).
I see you have a few horses too (and quite a crew of other pets). We have 4 house cats (2 indoor only) and a bunch of barn cats plus the horses. So far Kuma is learning that cats are not prey (and at 10 lbs, he is the same size as them, so good for him to learn it now). I used to have 3 Sibes and slightly fewer horses plus barn cats. So I guess we are all animal lovers here! :-)
Definitely! So far, the only cats our dogs have been exposed to are the ones at the barn where we board our horses - the older bc is terrified of them - will go so far as to run to another door of the barn to get in if there is a cat sitting in the big doorway. I have no idea how Sora will react to the horses, hopefully she'll get used to them - during the spring-fall we like to bring the dogs out there every once and a while to play farm dog. I have a friend with 2 20 lb cats, so I think at the moment, they could probably squash Sora.
We had Sora on the Orijen Peggy gave us, but decided to switch her to Innova, and went to 2 feedings a day, smaller one in the morning. She doesn't always finish her food (the distractions), especially in the morning, but she's definitely eating pretty well. We keep checking her on the scale to see if she's getting bigger. Puppies I've had tended to gain ~1lb/week for the 1st few of months - but it's hard to tell when we see her every day if she's getting bigger.
Sora did the same thing with the accidents and stepping in them in the cage the 1st 2 nights, but when we stopped putting towels in the cage, she stopped doing anything, and I think she's down to ~10 min of crying at night, sometimes she just goes to sleep.
What kind of horses do you breed? What type of riding do you do? We have an appaloosa/draft cross and a mostly solid paint (x walker?), and we pretty much do the trail riding/casual riding thing. Almost got into showing, then got the appy, and she's pretty much the opposite of a show horse (and I probably lost the show momentum training her), so we just ride around.
Well I highly doubt that your Shikoku will be afraid of cats! Kuma acts just like my Sibe puppies/young dogs did - PREY! So you have to instill a strong "no kitty" into them early in life. That being said, both Peggy and Katja said that Shikoku's can live with cats (and they both had Sibes too, hence my reason for asking). So don't be surprised if Sora thinks it is a BIG game to chase cats. Kuma is just now really learning "no kitty" and leaving our house cats alone. With the outdoor cats he is the same. But he is much better if the cat stands its ground (he is hesitant after receiving a few cat wacks with claws) than if the cat runs.
Sorry others, not to highjack the thread, but to answer you question Jen (or it it Tommy posting?), I breed Hanoverians and mainly ride dressage, though I do love trail riding too.
It's Jen (usually is). That's true, I'm used to bc with cats...herding, finding cats don't like to be told where to go...and the bc learned fast about barn cats. Definitely much different with a hunting dog. So far she hasn't shown any interest in the birds, just the food they throw out of the cage (when she escapes her area). Although, that could be b/c they are still ~2ft off the ground. I'm sure if she ever saw them on the floor she'd go after them. Which is why we don't let the birds out without the dogs confined. Hmmm... I definitely have to get on the cat thing ASAP (and little kids...we don't have any, don't have neighbors with them - I'll have to start asking friends if I can use their kids to kid-train my puppy *making sure the kids are puppy trained also*). Luckily, all the puppies seemed very outgoing, so as long as we keep up the socializing, we should be good.
Any suggestions out there for places to take a puppy for socialization (in the winter)...I have puppy class, small shops where the owners allow dogs, maybe Petsmart (we might have to do puppy class there b/c of location of obedience schools, but I don't like to take puppies there too often b/c there are sooooo many people that bring their dogs there), friends...maybe there isn't much else.
As a puppy Ahi did the crap in the crate and freak out thing... it was nasty. We kept keeping her in it tho, kinda forced her to deal with being crated. At about 6 months old we moved her to a pen and she still stays in her pen when we are not here. We plan to keep her in the pen till Loa out grows her crate then Ahi will have freedom in the house.
I would make sure you socialize your Shikoku pups with your horses early on - I know Dorothy has had some issues with Tenji being aggressive towards horses. So far Ahi has seen a few people ride through our back yard and both Ahi and Hilo totally freaked out - I thought they were gonna break the glass trying to get to them. It worries me a little.
Loa has been very hard to potty train - she never does number 2 in the house but she does number 1 on a regular basis. We have had a hard time with it because we can't limit her water because the other dogs need it, so she just drinks and drinks and drinks - then pees. We got some bells to hang on the door and that is helping.
Really - it's amazing how smart Shikokus are - we basically hung those bells on the door, jingled them when we took her out once, and now she knows how to use them. It was like magic or something. It's just really cool how smart they are.
Yes, I agree with the socializing them with horses early on. As I said, the Shikoku behavior towards horses (and cats) is very much like that of a Siberian. They will try to go after the horse, especially if the horse does more than stand still (which initiates even greater excitement in the dog) and risks the dog getting kicked. So I recommend always keeping them on a leash near horses (at least as young dogs) and/or until you can reliably control them with verbal commands so that they will not bother the horses. Gosh forbid if one of these dogs were to get kicked. You will probably have the same issue with cattle (if you have any in the area), but they are less likely to really hurt a dog than a horse would.
That being said, I have to say that Kuma is super easy to train overall for obedience (much more so than a Siberian, which is smart but not so much of a people pleaser). So I don't think that you will have problems with cats or horses if you get them exposed.
As far as kids, well that is hard (we don't have kids either). I guess borrow some ;-) for exposure. So far, I have to say that this puppy is not standoffish at all - he loves new people. It will be interesting to see how he changes as he grows. Since I live relatively rurally, there are a lot of outdoor places that I can take him to to socialize him to bunches of people. But you sound like you are on the right track Jen (just getting her out and about).
It took a long time for the BCs to get house trained...and they still have accidents if we let them drink a ton of water in the morning (actually, its mostly the younger one). Sora's had a few accidents while out of her crate (it's getting so she has more accidents out than in), but not often, I don't think even once a day. We're starting to catch on to her cues, athough since it's going to the gate, we don't know if it's going to the gate to go outside, or just going to the gate so she can escape and run to the other dogs. The bell idea is a good one. I know some other people who have done it, and liked how it works. I don't think we'll have to worry about Sora using it to just go outside yet, she tends to do her business then run back to the house. We've been keeping her on a leash to do that though, probably as soon as we let her outside without one, she'll get ditracted fast, and never want to go inside.
While Tag is the better horse dog (isn't afraid or agressive), he wants to herd them, and doesn't seem to realize he will get kicked. I wish he would, but very lightly...just enough so he knows what it is he's dancing and running around. But, unfortunately, the horses and I don't have that kind of communication *Polly, I know this sounds weird, but I was wondering if you could give Tag a tap..."
Yea, I have no idea how to get them used to the horses... I guess it will just take time.
We do have cows and bison that roam the Pueblo land behind our house - and bordering our prop. Who knows how that will go...
Kuma is adorable! Don't you just love our "little bears". I sometimes call Kei-kun a Kuma too when he does his little bear snarls, growls and grunts, lol.
I am having trouble getting him to stop peeing all over the place, mostly on the carpets and towls. He is pretty good about going poop on the potty pads though. And he DOESN'T like going poop in his crate! If he has to poop he'll SCREAM and let me know.
For crate training, he is REALLY good about being in his crate in the car. However...at home, I have to pull a blanket over his crate and he eventually quiets down. I just ignore him, even though his barks are definitely ear piercing. When he has been quite for a long time, I'll let him out again and tell him what a good boy he is. It is hard for him with so much "eye candy" around in my room, unlike in the truck...there isn't anything exciting to do!
He loves the cats and treats them as any other playmate. He pounced on Mia, my 3 year old, trying to get her to play. She just hissed and spat at him. And he licked her face! She pawed at him and took off. He just stood there a bit dumbfounded and went to find something else to do. So I shouldn't have any problems with at least MY cats. I'm hopefully getting my new kitten really soon, so he'll have a kit for a playmate in the next couple of months.
I have yet to introduce him to horses. I was at the stables just yesterday too! However, at that particular one they didn't allow dogs, so I left him in the truck. I'll be taking him to the local Gymkhana events soon enough though. Most of the horses there are already use to dogs, people bring their own dogs there all the time. I use to take Lynx too, but I haven't had any free time to go to any events on Saturdays as of late.
There's definitely a lot of training and socializing to do with our Shikoku pups!
Well, I found a great place to socialize a Shikoku to lots of people and kids this weekend! Christmas tree shopping at the local Christmas tree farm. Within minutes Kuma was mobbed by about 10 kids and many different adults stopped to pet him too. To date, he isn't standoffish at all, in fact he loves every new person (and child) he has met. So I hope that it stays that way as he matures.
Just thought I would share since Jen was asking about places to socialize your pet. If you have a local Christmas tree farm, that is a good bet for children and lots of people (if on the weekend).
Good luck everyone with their socialization of their pups (to kids, adults, horses and cats! LOL!)
Could you please contact me by email??
I need to know your name, adress and so futher for your Shikoku's pedigree.
I have asked Peggy several times, but did not receive anything back.
I am the breeder of your puppie, from Holland. The pedigree is of importance for your Shikoku.
There are still very few FCI Shikoku, and yours is one of them.
We called him yumi-sweety van de Egmato.
He looks great on the pic's. Hope you shall contact me,please.
info@shikoku.nl is my emailadress.
I am with grandemu here, you can send the FCI paperwork and I can work it through Peggy as she and I are the ones in the business relationship. Thank you.
In answer to you request to sent it to Peggy is not possilbe. I need to fill in the forms over her with all your names, adresses and so futher. Then I need to sent it to the Dutch Kennel Club. Within a copple of weeks you will receive all the paperworks from The Dutch Kennel Club in return, in yours as owners name.
This litter is bred by VAN DE EGMATO kennel and so will be their names in the FCI pedigree's.Hope you can understand this. I do not understand why Peggy does not co-operate anymore to get you the pedigree's you need to have???
Technically, the breeder of a litter of pups, is the
owner of the dam. It is the owner of the dam who decides that this
bitch is worthy to breed and goes about to find the proper stud to
breed her with, to produce the litter. Sometimes, the owner of the sire considers him/herself the breeder. In this case, the breeder is owner of both the dam and the sire. The person who is present at the puppies' birth whether they are responsible for the dog at the time are not, are not the breeder. If I had to take my dog to the vet to have the puppies, I would not call the vet the breeder.
Peggy has been nothing but supportive of registration. She has explained to us all the reasons why it could be a good idea to register with the FCI. I do not plan on showing my dog overseas, and she will not be sent overseas to have the puppies. Therefore, registering her with the FCI is only a benefit in # of Shikokus registered with the FCI. I will only register Sora with the FCI with the registered name she also has in the UKC.
In answer to the aboved mentioned is in a way correct. And the mother and father are still in my possesion, I am the rightfull owner still.
I yust want to give the 3 new owners of the pups born with me in Holland the oppertunity to get the right pedigree's.
About the names; We need to give the pups names in the litter before they are 10 days old. It is a stupid rule but we can not do else. We need to decide what the names will be on the pedigree. But that is it. Lots of people call their dogs a different name during their lives, no problem according to me???
Let me know if I can make things in order for the 3 of you, or else I have to keep them in my name.
For the dogs live I will be the owner.....I think this is not what you all want??? Let me know,oke?? I yust want the play the cards right for you all. Nothing else.
hello all
it is a waill that i wrote on the forum
what willem write is correct
the dam and shire is still ownd bij willem but day life in the usa bij peggy
sow they have the name van de Egmato this is only at the paper
you can call the little a nother name
wilem will do nothing wihte the adress when the paper is send to you