DOOR BOLTING

edited January 2008 in Shiba Inu (柴犬)
Now i would like feedback on this subject. now i heard about but never saw first hand  until hopper. So we thought we could trust her BIG MISTAKE she took off on us too many times so i fixed that problem. I went and ordered the pet safe underground fence  now this is around my whole property line 1.25 acres  she learn where she could go and where she couldnt real fast i had to on low . We put the white flags up and took around the property line so she knew where and wher not to go. So after two times trying to cross she learned not to go near the flags. We have taken the flags down and removed the battery from the collar. She knows when the collar goes on she cant go very far but she can still fun and play all she wants. Did i do the wrong thing please be honest...

Comments

  • edited November -1


    I would NEVER trust a shiba off leash. The invisible fences in my opinion aren't a good idea though because while they can't leave, predators and other dogs can get to them, making them caged prey.


     


    Personally if you don't have a fenced yard. Plan on walking ON LEASH a lot.


    I walk my guys 8 miles every day. Rain or Shine. 

  • edited November -1


    Shibas are smart, really smart.  My aunt and uncle use an electric fence and it cost them dearly.  Boagie was a smart little female, she would run the perimeter of the fence making her collar beep until the battery died.  Once the beeping stopped she knew NO BEEP - NO SHOCK.  The final time she did this she ended up getting hit by a car on the interstate two miles from her house.  Her injuries were beyond severe and she had to suffer on the way to the vet where she could be humanely euthanized.  Maybe this will never happen to Hopper, but do you want to take that chance?


    Shibas do not belong on electric fences.  Some of them even have prey drives that will take over, and they don't care if they get shocked, they want to chase that rabbit.


    If you want Hopper to be able to play outside, see if there are dog parks in your area, it will be good socilization and good exercise.  Otherwise start walking with her, a lot.  Also you could get a nice 30 foot tie out and play with her in the yard.

  • edited November -1


    Well, I haven't owned Shibas, but I did own (exclusively) Siberian Huskies, which are another highly independent Spitz breed who are escape artists. I would never have left them unattended in the yard with just an invisible fence. They were notorious for doing just as Brandon mentioned (wearing out the battery) or just running through the fence and getting the shock (if something was more interesting on the other side). And they also were super independent to not always come when called.


     


    So, if I were you, I would only use the invisible fence when I would be outside with Hopper -- where I could watch her. I wouldn't leave her unattended. If you want her out, you could use a long cable tie out (I used 25 ft ones attached in the open yard --so they wouldn't get tangled). I used to do this in my FENCED yard with my Siberians (if I only had a 4 ft fence). So that they could be outside but not escape. I also took them for LOTs of long walks - since they could not be trusted off lead.


     I know that there are people who don't like tethers. But for some dogs they work great because they can be outside but not loose. I know that the breeder who I got my Shikoku from had tethers attached to elevated lines with runners so that the dog could zoom back and forth if they wanted to. You might try that too.

  • edited November -1


    While I don't have first hand knowledge of electric fences, I have heard many of the same criticisms before. Shibas in particular are known to just run through the shock to get what they want. If the issues is letting them play in the yard, then by all means get a tether or put up a real fence. If the issue is door bolting (as the title of this thread suggests) you can train around that. With Lucy, she never goes through a door until she has sat down and received an "ok" command from me. We do this entering and leaving the house, coming out of the bedroom in the morning, going on or off the deck in the back, and even entering and leaving the dog park (regardless of double gates or not). I started this from the day I brought her home and she has never bolted on me. The few times she's decided to test me on it a quick vocal correction has brought her back inside and got her to sit---no leash correction required. 


    That being said, I did take her off leash once, a few days after I brought her home. Bad bad bad bad bad idea. I was having a 4th of July party and took her out beer in hand. When she wanted to play with a Jack Russel who was also out (and off leash) I decided to try giving her the freedom. It took all of three seconds to realize what I had done and bolt off down the road. I disrupted four other parties sprinting after her spilling beer all over myself. Not a great way to meet the neighbors! I finally caught her 20 minutes later when she got distracted by a game of crochet. Never again!


    -Dave 

  • edited November -1
    the back part of out property is fenced just not the fron and she likes to be around us the whole time we are up front.
  • edited November -1
    Ditto on all is said.  If a shiba wants something it nothing will stop them.  We have 30 foot leads and even though we trust Niko SOMETIMES, we never know when we can and cant trust her.  She doesnt door bolt anymore, she waits for free or for us to pick up her leash.  We hook her leash in the house.  She has run away many times and knows her way back but I dont trust someone to not keep her or her to not get hurt.  Also if your shiba ever runs away...NEVER chase them...get them to chase you and run back into the house.
  • edited November -1
    Yanno..surprisingly I've never had to chase after Gen...or Momo, or Musashi. How do you get them to chase you?
  • edited November -1


    I only know of 1 Shiba that is trusted off leash.  My neighbors' cream male shiba named "Gringo" .   They rarely put him on a leash, only when they are \going for a ride...he is trained very well off leash and I asked how the hell they managed to do that...my neighbors response "YEARS OF TRAINING!"  He is now 4 years old.  She said they had to do a lot of training and work with him constantly, but thats all worth it when you can trust that your dog will come to you when you call him/her off leash.  Ninja actually did his first door bolt today.  We have a brick wall around our front yard with a gate to come in and out.  My dad came over today and left the gate open and there went Ninja.  He pee'd on a tree in the common area and went walking on the route we take him and portia everyday for their walks.  John ran in front of him and called him and surprisingly he came to john and took him back home.


     I think i can trust portia off leash...but I still won't risk it...I don't want to risk any chance of my pups getting hurt by being off leash in an area thats not closed off.   I just take them to the local dog park 2-3 times a week, Let them run around for hours and get it out of their systems.  And daily walks.  I guess if you really want to teach Hopper to be trained off leash...maybe you should contact a trainer specifically for off-leash dog training and see how to go about training her.

  • edited November -1
    Sometimes when Tojo escapes, he will just sit in front of the door until I go out to chase him.  He'll even scratch at the door so I'll go out to get him and then run away.  I don't play that game.  If he escapes, I just watch him until he comes back.  Luckily, I have the luxury of being several miles away from any traffic or people and Tojo mostly just runs circles around the house.  
  • edited November -1


    Shiba 500 around the house??  HAHA  Niko goes into the "woods" behind our house and comes back and waits at the back door.  That is our fault cause when the shiba ran away in our back Niko and Sasha helped looking for her and so they are VERY framiliar with the back but know their way back.  Again, that is why I trust them to come back but not others and traffic.


    Getting them to chase you?  I think that is an instinct.  It is a good game to get them to chase you cause you are in charge and you are in control of what happens (so says my trainer).  Niko loves to be chased and chase.  We play it in the house all the time and practice outside.  Chasing them outside makes them go further and further, them chasing you puts you in charge. It certainly worked the few times that niko was out. 

  • edited November -1
    Tojo's very good at Shiba 500!  I also forgot to mention that he can't possibly go outside without getting in the pond and coming back wet (or, on occassion, covered head to toe in mud).  Luckily, he cleans himself off like a cat when he gets back.  I don't know what I'd do with a dog that got dirty and stayed dirty.  I guess I'd have to... clean them myself! Surprised
  • edited November -1


    Ahhh! Let me tell you about an Akita that was part of an Akita rescue here in the souther US. She knew when the collar was on. She'd walk up to the line where the collar beeped. She promptly sat down and simply waited for the beeping to stop, signaling she'd killed the battery. Then, off she'd go.


    Fence. Nothing beats a physical barrier. Nothing else stops other dogs from approaching your dog. If one did, your dog is at a disadvantage in that there are these nasty little prongs sticking her in the throat.


    But, that's just my 2 cents and my experience. Each case is different.

  • edited November -1
    Niko NEVER smells unless she was at daycare.  It is hard getting used to Sasha still.  She needs a bath every 2-3 weeks.  She feels and smells so icky.  So weird the differences.
  • edited November -1
    Decided to resurrect this thread because I've been wondering about this lately. My 5+ month old Koji thus far shows no sign of having this tendency. He does get walked a lot, so I assume that does quell his desire to "escape", but I am wondering at what age this tendency normally expresses itself. I know there are the rare Shibas that are not door bolters. Just wondering if I got that lucky or if it's way too early yet, as he's still a pup. Thanks for any replies.
  • edited November -1
    Back to Brandon's comment, I have heard of another Shiba doing the exact same thing... Waiting for the collar to go dead. They are really smart dogs, I've scratched the invisible fence idea from my mind, because I know Mylie would find a way around it... I mean, the little monster has figure out how to open the sliding door!
  • edited November -1
    Jazz isn't a door bolter and she's 5. She has to cross the wood floor that she hates to go out the door. She's gotten us trained to leash her on the carpet, pick her up, and carry her out the door. If the doorbell rings she goes to her crate. That being said, I make sure someone is with her when a door is opened - it's just not worth the chance of it happening.
  • edited November -1
    i think once they go through that fear stage they start getting extremely curious and rebellious, but every dog is probably different.

    I kept a plastic grocery bag on the door knob with a few coins in it b/c all my shibas are afraid of the sound of crinkling plastic bags and when they'd get close to the door if we were going in our out w/out them, i'd yell "BACK" and shake the bag a few times. they were scared, i know, but it worked, now all I have to do is say "Back" and they get back to the entrance of the room (about 8 feet from the door) until I say "lets go" to get them harnessed up for leaving.
    It might seem harsh making them scared but I think its much better than them getting out!
  • edited November -1
    I would never trust a Shiba alone in an invisible electronic fenced area. Dogs learn what the limits are of the equipment and as stated above many will take a jolt and keep on going. A main concern is the unleashed, stray or misbehaved dogs that roam on to your yard. It does not prevent them from entering onto property and harassing your dog. If your dog needs to escape there is no way out other than to get shocked. Once out the Shiba would not want return to the yard since in essence it would be punished for crossing back over the line to come back home. Not a good habit you want to reinforce.

    If you decide to use a pully cable system make sure the line(s) can not get caught around trees or objects in the yard or that the line is far enough away from any barriers so you pup can not hang itself if it decided to jump up, over, on, in, or between. Shibas are notorious for getting into places you least expect.

    Snf
  • edited November -1
    I have an 11 month old shiba who we do take for at least 2 leash walks daily, but we have 1 acre of property and have installed an invisible fence. He was shocked twice and now all we have to do is put the training prongs on for tone only. Never would I just leave him out unsupervised, but it has become a wonderfull thing to have him in the yard when we are out, or when he wants to play. We have had it for 3 months and so far he's so scared to get shocked he wont even go near the edges of my yard, but the day he was shocked he also spent laying on the bathroom floor, not even wanting to eat his dinner. Just really watch hopper, I think if used with caution and supervision the fence could work out fine. We also have small children over all the time, and its hard to always watch all the doors, we leave the collar on if we have visitors and its certainly better then no fence at all if he does manage to bolt through the door.
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