Obedience Training With Shikokus
Hi all,
Kenzo's owners here.
We were wondering what you guys' experience with obedience training your Shikokus has been, and whether they have been neutered. I'm curious in particular whether Kuma, with his recent obedience win, is intact.
The most difficult thing we have found with Kenzo is simply getting his attention. He has absolutely zero response to his name, and outdoors he is even worse (has no response at all to toys and treats- far more interested in the surroundings) I'm not sure how much this has to do with the fact that he was raised up to 10 months at the breeders as an outdoor dog and not given much in the way of training.
What should we be doing to counteract this? What have your experiences been? Finally, to what extent do you think getting him neutered will affect this issue?
Kenzo's owners here.
We were wondering what you guys' experience with obedience training your Shikokus has been, and whether they have been neutered. I'm curious in particular whether Kuma, with his recent obedience win, is intact.
The most difficult thing we have found with Kenzo is simply getting his attention. He has absolutely zero response to his name, and outdoors he is even worse (has no response at all to toys and treats- far more interested in the surroundings) I'm not sure how much this has to do with the fact that he was raised up to 10 months at the breeders as an outdoor dog and not given much in the way of training.
What should we be doing to counteract this? What have your experiences been? Finally, to what extent do you think getting him neutered will affect this issue?
Comments
To answer you first question, no, Kuma is not neutered and is apx 18 months old at the time. I plan on getting his eyes/hips/etc tested and he may one day breed if he remains within standard and with no issues.
As far as the obedience and attention, that is a constant working process with any dog. And if you haven't really had a lot of experience, it can be frustrating at times, but you have to remember patience is a virtue in dog training. My suggestion is the first start working Kenzo in your house. Have him sit with you. Have a whole lot of small pieces of really YUMMY treats (I uses ring bologna, which is Kuma's favorite). It also helps to have a clicker (this type of training works really well with Shikoku). As Kenzo is sitting with you, if he glances at you, "click" and give him 1 piece (very small pieces, about 1/4 of the size of a penny). When he looks away and then looks back at you, click again and treat. You may have to wait him out for a while, don't say his name yet. Just make sure he sits near you and when he looks at you (which may take a while), click and treat. Pretty soon he will get the idea that he gets a treat when he looks at you.
After he has gotten the idea that looking at you means yummy treat; start saying his name, if he looks at you, click and treat. Pretty soon he will get the idea that his name, a look at you brings a click and a treat.
Next, move to another area of your house (inside)- a more distracting area this time. Start over from scratch and reward him when he looks at you and click and treat. After he is doing it 99% of the time hear, move outside to a quiet area. Repeat.
The main goal of teaching attention to a dog is to first teach them in a quiet area. Then move to a bit more active area. The outside in your yard. Then down the block...then at the strip mall, etc. Pretty soon your dog will learn to concentrate thru the distractions. But you have to start slow and if you go to a place and he is too distracted, you have taken too big a step forward and you need to take a 1/2 step back.
As he gets better at it, begin variable rewards with him (ie, click but no treat) and make it random so that he cannot guess the pattern. Dogs work harder if they never know when they get a paycheck. All this work is teaching the attention. Pretty soon with repitition, you won't need the food and clicker. But it really helps to shape the right behaviors from the get go.
If you have yet, I would HIGHLY suggest enrolling him in a basic obedience class. The main reason is that in class, there will be lots of distractions (ie, other dogs) and he will learn to concentrate thru it.
Some of it probably is that he was an outside dog till 10 months of age. But I think you can still easily work through it, it just might be slightly harder than conditioning a young puppy from scratch. Neutering might help because it usually means the dog will be less interested in other dogs. And of course, each dog is an individual and has different apptitudes for obedience.
I hope this makes sense. Please if it doesn't, I will be happy to try again.
Just a couple of quick clarification questions:
Should he see that you have treats, or should they be kept hidden?
Should I be doing my own thing, or should I be looking at him while waiting for him to look back?
Should you click only when he gives you eye contact, or when he looks at your body/hand?
Is it okay if there is a small gap (e.g. 5 sec) between the time you click and give the treat, or does it need to be done very rapid fire?
Thanks again!
Hi Vahid. I included a link to a great training website which teaches you how to teach your dog lots of skills using clicker training. It includes this attention exercise similar to what I listed above.
To answer your questions:
Should he see that you have treats, or should they be kept hidden?
You don't have to hide the treats, but I usually keep them in a plastic baggy in my pocket (as long as the pocket is roomy and you can get to the treats relatively quickly). Initially, one of the first training sessions is to teach him that click means food. So for the first few minutes give him a piece of food (remember SMALL pieces) and click right after you give it too him. Do this in rapid succession for a minute or two. This will teach that click means food.
Should I be doing my own thing, or should I be looking at him while waiting for him to look back?
I would do the latter. Just be sure to wait patiently, but would probably have him on a leash in case he decides to get up and leave. If he does, put him back in place sitting. You can wait patient or make quiet noise to see if he looks. If you have taught him that click = treat, he will begin to look with a much faster response after the first 1 or 2 times.
Should you click only when he gives you eye contact, or when he looks at your body/hand?
You are getting the idea just based on this question. Initially, depending on how distracted he is, I might very well click if he looks towards me at all (body, hand, face). Then as he gets good at that, I might only click when he looks at my upper body. Then as he gets good at that, I might only click when he looks at my face. It is called shaping by successive approximations. You will see that at first the dog doesn't understand, so he will offer you a variety of behaviors. Initially you have to reward the behaviors that are somewhat of what you want. As they begin to understand, you only reward the behavior that is even closer to final. Pretty soon, you one reward the final behavior (in the case of attention, it is looking at you in the face when you say his name).
Is it okay if there is a small gap (e.g. 5 sec) between the time you click and give the treat, or does it need to be done very rapid fire?
Initially, try to keep the treats close to the click. Later, you can give the treats with every other click or with every 4th click etc (varying the rate). But when initially shaping the behavior, you want the click to be right when the behavior is "right" and the food close after.
If you think about it, this is how they have always trained dolphins and whales. But the trainers couldn't be in the pool and feed a fish as reward immediately, so they taught the dolphin to "Pavlov" to the click (ie, associate the click with food). So the trainers could "reward" the animal right away that "THAT" was the behavior that they wanted. And give food as a reward soon after (ie, the dolphin swims over).
The website I posted will help a lot. Shikokus are VERY smart and clicker training works super for them. I used clicker training to teach Kuma all new commands and tricks. One thing I do do, since I don't always want to carry a clicker with me, it to also teach him that the word "yes" = food (same as the click). So if I don't have a clicker, I can use the word "yes". But clickers actually work a bit better in training since verbal cues come with a ton of voice and they can relay "frustration" "excitement" etc to the dog, which could change their willingness to learn.
Here's another good website
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1284
You can buy clickers here too.
I really hopes this helps. I think it will! Remember, patience and attention to detail. Always try to click at the right time (ie, right as the behavior you want occurs).
To teach Kuma this was hard and I had to be very patient.
1st - I had to teach him not to be afraid of the device at all. So I clicked and treated when he came over near me and the device
2nd - I clicked and treated when he raised his paw to my hand, which was low and near the leaver that he would eventually press.
3rd - I clicked and treated when he raised his paw and touched ANYWHERE on the device (bell deactivated)
4th - I clicked and treated only when he touched the black lever (no bell)
5th - I had to start over when I put the bell to use because it scared him. Back to step one.
6th - I had to teach him to do it when I was not right next to it - so I started to use the word "touch" while we were next to it
7th - I moved 2 feet from it and said "touch" and clicked if he went and rang the bell
To get as far back away from it meant I had to slowly teach him that he still should go touch it even if we were far away. But I could only back away about 6 inches at a time until he got the hang of it.
You can see in the video that I don't treat while he is doing it because the behavior is "finished". I give him a treat after the session is done. But during the initial training of the "unfinished" product, the clicks and the treats are close together.
Sorry for the book - but one final thing. Keep your training sessions short, <10 minutes. I like to do multiple 5 minute sessions throughout the day. As the dog begins to concentrate more, I will extend the sessions beyond 10 minutes. But initially you really want to keep this a game and FUN for the dog. Pretty soon the dog will really look forward to these "mind" games and be excited to play with you this way. Kuma knows that training means that he will get good rewards, even if it is at the end of the session in the form of pets and food.
Also, Kuma, like Kenzo, can lose his food motivation outside and in new places. That is why it is important to do a lot of the initial training at home where the food motivation is high. Then move to a slightly busier place. The goal is to teach the dog to concentrate on you. But like a kid, you cannot throw them into a chaotic environment if they have only been exposed to quiet and have them concentrate well. But since Kuma is so attuned to me at home via the clicker training, even when we are away and he is not food motivated, I can still keep his attention and get him to work for me (b/c of the work at home).