Homeowner's Insurance

IppusIppus
edited July 2009 in General
I just ran across an article on MSN about dog bite liability and noticed that one of the breeds that are commonly blacklisted by insurance companies (that is, the companies will refuse to insure against bites, etc) are Akita. Have any of you run across problems in this regard? What about breed confusion? Since Shikoku and Shiba are also Japanese breeds, has anybody here had issues with homeowner's insurance on them?

I can just see myself having this conversation:
me: I just got a Shikoku. It's a relatively rare breed from Japan, distantly related to the Akita.
Insurance agent: We can't insure Akitas.
me (kicking myself): It's not an Akita. Smaller, completely different breed...
Insurance agent: We can't insure Akitas.
me: You're an idiot...

edit: here's the url for the article I was reading, btw. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHome/your-dogs-bite-could-bankrupt-you.aspx

Comments

  • tjbart17tjbart17
    edited November -1
    I had this problem with Bear, a Rott. When I put Koda on my AAA Insurance policy, I did not have a problem at all. They asked me if he was a "dangerous breed" and listed 10 breeds. I said no and left it at that. Shikoku is not listed, don't worry.
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    edited November -1
    When we bought our house the agent asked us if we had dogs and I said "Yes, we have two Japanese Shiba Inu", she said "Let me check the list" and then she just said "okay, they are all set". Don't mention Akita, just say you have a Japanese Shikoku, a rare breed from Japan.
  • CreamyShibaMomCreamyShibaMom
    edited November -1
    Unfortunately this has been going on for awhile..when I was younger and living with my parents I had the opportunity to take a rottie/mix pup from one of the yard dogs by work. When I called my parents insurance co., they very, very, very quickly said "we'll cancel your parent's homeowners insurance if you bring the rottweiler into their home". Apparently Dalmations are on that list as well.

    I've hated insurance companies ever since then..all of them LOL...
  • okironokiron
    edited July 2009
    What are the common breeds banned from homeowner's insurance? I know malamutes, huskies, GSD, pits, and dalmations are on most if not all apartment ban lists.

    ETA: Oh and dobermans and rotties.
  • MeilianMeilian
    edited November -1
    Actually, I don't think any breeds in particular are banned from my apartment (I live in NYC). I've seen huskys, malamutes and recently a little pit or pit mix has been around a lot. I've also seen lots of GSD walking around the area. When my boyfriend and I were looking at places to move to and asked about dogs, unless they had a weight limit, most of them just said that they don't allow "aggressive" dogs and didn't specify a breed.

    however, when signing up for renters insurance, most of the companies asked if you have an Akita, Malamute, Chow Chow, Dobie, Pit, Rottie or a Staffie.
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    edited November -1
    "Actually, I don't think any breeds in particular are banned from my apartment (I live in NYC)."

    The weight limit usually is the ban.

    I'm trying to find the list, but Akitas are definitely on there with no distinction between American or Japanese.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited July 2009
    Guys, don't get all crazed over the insurance thing, most of it is a state-by-state thing and most of the major insurance companies state that they do not "breed discriminate" (like State Farm, for example). State Farm asks you questions about your dog, not about it's breed (things like: "has your dog ever bit a person?").

    Also, if you are not going to have a bunch of dogs, and not going to be breeding them, and not even going to be into showing them, why bother telling your insurance company what breed they are anyway - especially a rare breed like the Shikoku. If they ask what breed say "I don't know".

    If you really have a breed that is on a list, and you are really concerned, you will have to look up what your insurance company insures in your state and go from there.

    Here is some info...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/30/us/home-insurers-frown-on-many-dogs.html?scp=1&sq=march%2030,%202002%20dog&st=cse

    http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_HomeInsurance.php

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  • tjbart17tjbart17
    edited July 2009
    For AAA Home Insurance California

    Bull Terriers
    American Pit Bull Terriers
    Presas Canarios
    Rottweilers
    Doberman Pinschers
    Chow Chows
    American Straffordshire Terriers
    Akitas

    And any other dangerous animal with a bite history.

    Rott is on it, but they insured me with Bear. Although, my premium was a little higher. Again, just say no to their question. They don't ask you your dog's breed just if it's on this list. If it's a rescue, I would say I don't know.
  • MeilianMeilian
    edited November -1
    "The weight limit usually is the ban."

    tjbart, I was referring to the other apartments that I looked at, not the one that I ultimately choose and only one of the 8 that I looked at had a weight limit.

    The list of dog breeds that I put in my post is directly from the Esurance website.
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    edited November -1
    I can only speak for California. I used to work as a Property Manager at an HOA. We would put a weight limit of 45 pounds because most "dangerous breeds" exceeded the limit. Funny because I used to bring Bear to the office.
  • MeilianMeilian
    edited November -1
    hmm to be honest, I think apartments in NYC are being really lax about dogs with perspective owners due to the slump in the market. There are so many vacant places that they'll do pretty much anything to fill them. My old building use to have a 40lb weight limit but they've done away with that over the last 2 years.

    I just hope that they don't go back to their previous hard line approaches once things get better and put people in a difficult position...
  • cmmookiecmmookie
    edited November -1
    I would have to agree. I see tons of large dogs on our walks everyday. NYC seems to be extremely dog friendly, regardless of breed.
  • CreamyShibaMomCreamyShibaMom
    edited November -1
    most bigger dogs may have been grandfathered in. I would assume if the building changes thier plans in the future, dogs currently at the building woudl have to stay...actually our lawyer said there is a NYC law that protects an animal that is already in the apt (has to have been there for X amount of time and everybody knew about it) even if the building said no dogs...

    I have to agree with Tara, Weight limits are just a nice / less liablity way of saying no to certain breeds.

    Our board instilled the weight limit (there were complaints about the Labs and the pitbull that recently passed away) to deter "agressive dogs" when we were signing our contract and then the new board thought about banning all dogs period during contract at which point I hit the roof (we knew we were paying a premium for the location and the dog ownership opportunity). They subequently granted permission for us to get a dog that was under 35lbs at our interview, but any future buyers may not be allowed...we'll see how that goes and how it affects prices..
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    edited November -1
    I have an HOA at my house *never again will I buy into an HOA*. I'm lucky because the co-owner of the property management company shows her dogs. She actually knocked on my door last week wanting to see the Kai Ken puppy that was registered to the house. I admit, my heart dropped at first, but came to find out that she had never seen a Kai in person and really just wanted to check him out.

    She was also great with Bear, who was an old man by the time I purchased my home. I brought him to their office to sign papers. We don't have weight limits, probably because of her. It's actually the little dogs in the neighborhood that are the hell raisers.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    There is nothing you can do about HOA or Apartments, if you are in a situation where you are limited by one of those then you have a totally different issue (you are stuck) than the original Home Owners Insurance issue/question brought up in this thread.

    If you guys are really concerned about Home Owners Insurance, you can always get Canine Liability Coverage. We have a Canine Liability Coverage policy, it helps to supplement our home owners insurance as well as protects us from our HOI company refusing service due to our dogs.

    A base $100k policy will run you around $100/m.

    Here is some info on that:

    www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/insurance.htm#Where to get dog owner liability insurance

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  • IppusIppus
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the voice of calm, and the more info, Brad.

    I know when I was first getting insurance through American Family, they listed a number of breeds for me, verbally, right there in the office that I was not allowed to own under the policy. I don't remember most of them, but I was surprised that they had Huskies on there. They've probably changed since... I dunno. That was years ago, and I'm with Farmer's, now.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    I have Traveler's and did not had any issues obtaining coverage with an Akita. However, Liberty Mutual did deny us several years ago because we had Akita.

    I'm an RE in NYC. A prospective purchaser in NYC can request a weight limit exception from the board of any building that allows dogs under a certain weight (typically 40lbs). Some buildings will approve the larger dog, others will not - this has always been true. A coop that does not allow dogs will not give allowances on any type of dog regardless of weight or the economy.

    Condo rules have actually become more strict these past few years. Some going to the extent of not allowing dogs at all.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited July 2009
    Philip - Unfortunately they probably haven't changed due to the fact that most of those "dangerous breeds" come from a "special report" published in 2000 by the CDC. Pretty much all insurance companies will cite that report as the base for their breed discrimination lists.

    Note the use of the term "type", like "pitbull-type"... Even going as far as to say "Japanese Hunting Breed-type". Also note the "NOS" (Not otherwise specified). That makes it super easy for an insurance company to go "English Sheepdog?... hmmm... That sounds like a Sheep Dog (NOS) that's on the CDC report - No insurance for you!".

    It's really lame, and pisses me off.

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  • IppusIppus
    edited July 2009
    Lame is right. What crap...

    Edit: What's dumb is that the report specifically addresses "breed-specific ordinances" and indicates their impracticality. Doubly stupid, then, that it's being used as an excuse for MORE breed discrimination.
  • okironokiron
    edited November -1
    You guys are lucky with the no breed restrictions. I can't find a place to rent around here, even through private owners that would allow a malamute or GSD...which means until we become homeowners, no wolf for us since that's what they're usually mixed with.
  • AraksAraks
    edited November -1
    I still can't believe huskies and malamutes are on the list! and that was just annoying how it lists "types." I just wouldn't tell the insurance company that it was an akita, that seems the easiest way to do it, especially a japanese akita, since a lot of people here don't even know about them, and only think of american akitas when you say "akita"
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited November -1
    It's pretty common for Huskies and Malamutes to be on the list of non-acceptable dogs. Leave to bad owners of breeds to get everyone in trouble.
  • okironokiron
    edited November -1
    I called an apartment today about their breed restriction list. Apparently they're allowed to say yes or no on the breeds I ask about but they're not allowed to read me the list. Anyway...malamutes are a no no but huskies are ok. I don't get it. Besides size they're similar in temperament imo. Anyone want to educate me?
  • CaliaCalia
    edited November -1
    Maybe a situation that happened previously in the complex, like someone had a really aggressive malamute and someone else had a very friendly husky. After dealing with the aggressive malamute, they felt that all malamutes are like this so thus banned the breed.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    edited July 2009
    Ok I call BS on the part of the Apt. rental office. They should be able to disclose to you in writing what pet breeds are acceptable even if they can't/wont' read that over the phone. The list is not and should not be top secret since it is similar to a covenant as in HOA orgs, it has to be available to the renters.

    Snf
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