Question about toxins (like chocolate)

I have seen many varying lists on what foods are toxic to dogs. Only a few things are constant in all lists I have seen, which are chocolate, coffee, and macadamia nuts.What I would like to know is, well, the truth really. What foods really are toxic. Lists with things like alcohol are just dumb. No sh*t its not good for my dog, its not good for people. What I really want to see are foods with reasons why they are bad. Like apple seeds contain cyanide that dogs cannot process. Chocolate contains theobromine, a stimulant not to be confused with caffine. I am curious about specific foods and the reasons why they are listed as bad. They are grapes and tomatoes. I have known dogs that will eat tomatoes right off the plant. If anyone would like to shed some light for me and others, add what you know to the list.

Chocolate - theobromine, a stimulant dogs cannot tolerate

Apple Seeds - cyanide, dogs cannot digest the trace amounts in the seeds

Garlic & Onions - thiosulphate, dogs develop what is known as "haemolytic anemia", this means the dog's red blood cells actually "burst".

Comments

  • edited November -1
    don't some of the forum members give their dogs garlic and brewers yeast as a flea repellant?
  • edited November -1
    Yeh, I had read some junk on the net that said garlic was bad for Shibas, but I use it when I cook bait for Ike and so many other people I know use it too, but the only reason I could find that said to be wary was for it maybe causing stones or crystals or something odd like that. I have no idea if that's true, I doubt it, but I could be wrong. I can't find any legitimate study or even anecdotal tale regarding that from any Shiba authority I know. That is true for onions, however.
  • edited November -1
    My dog had onion poisoning before. I posted the details in a thread back then but its very serious. Should not (nor should any of other toxins) be taken lightly.
  • edited November -1
    I think they had initially grouped garlic and onions together as being toxic, but 'studies' and such keep changing as to whether or not garlic is good to give. yes or no, yes or no, that's all I've been hearing over the years.


    I was told that tomatoes were ok to give so long as it's not too much. I can see how a tomato can be troublesome to a dog since it is pretty acidic, but a chunk here or there isn't too bad. I do know that the plant (stems and leaves) itself is very poisonous and can be quite deadly if ingested. Another website states:

    "They contain an alkaloid that interferes with cholinergic nerves and cause some serious gastrointestinal distress...The highest concentrations [of Tomatine] are in the stems and leaves. There are small amounts in the fruit, part of the distinctive flavor of tomatoes and potatoes comes from these alkaloids, but at concentrations too low to harm you."

    The website also goes on about how you can use this toxic as a natural form of pest control.
    http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=40185


    Not a food, but a common plant in people's gardens...Foxglove is highly toxic and if ingested it could cause cardiac arrhythmia, vomiting, diarrhea, weakness, cardiac failure, death.
  • edited November -1
    Tomatoes are also sometimes on the list because they are part of the deadly nightshade family. Garlic is also lumped in with onions because they are related. You will notice pretty much anything that grows from a bulb is toxic to dogs (I don't have the science behind why), lilies, tulips, onions, etc.
  • edited November -1
    I know of a vet that homecooks for her dogs, and uses cooked onions. Apparently a well-cooked one is perfectly fine as long as its anemia-causing toxins get diluted by the rest of the ingredients. However, I wouldn't take that chance, I don't think the dogs need that extra "flavor".

    Garlic in high quantities does in fact cause anemia. That quantity varies between dogs though, which is why caution is important when using it in your own dog. Cooking the garlic dilutes is helpful and harmful quantities.

    Same with Brewer's Yeast. The dermatologist I just saw for Tsuki warned against using it as many dogs are sensitive and begin to have yeast infections after use... its also used to GROW fleas by the companies who develop meds like Frontline, so that conflicts with the thought of its properties to repel them.

    Grapes are also on the "do not feed list".
  • edited November -1
    And of course remember raisins are wrinkly dry grapes.
  • edited August 2009
    Growing up in Napa Valley CA (the Wine Country) we called raisins rejected grapes, didn't make the cut to be wine :)
  • edited November -1
    Tomatos (the fruit part) are fine to give dogs. Just steer clear of the green parts that sometimes are included with fresh tomatoes from a vine... so my vet has told me. Lantis loves tomatoes. :)
  • edited November -1
    Found this list, thought it would fit in this thread:

    - Alcohol can cause breathing difficulties, abnormal blood acidity, coma and death in dogs. At parties, don’t let anyone offer your dog a ‘drink.’

    - Almond Extract can cause severe allergic reactions even in small amounts, such as found in a small piece of a sugar cookie.


    - Avocados contain persin which can cause digestive upsets and heart problems.

    -Broccoli in large amounts can cause illness in dogs.

    - Cooked Bones may splinter and puncture or obstruct the digestive tract.

    - Chocolate, coffee and tea all contain stimulants that cause abnormal heartbeat, seizures and death in dogs. Dark chocolate is especially dangerous for dogs in even very small amounts.

    - Corn on the cob is dangerous. Corn will not always be digested, chunks of cob may obstruct the digestive tract

    - Grapes and raisins contain an unknown substance that causes kidney failure in dogs.

    - Liver in *large* amounts can cause Vitamin A toxicity.

    - Macadamia nuts contain an unidentified toxin that causes weakness, tremors, panting and swelling in the legs.

    - Walnuts may have a fungus or mold which causes drooling, jaundice, lack of coordination, and vomiting.

    - Milk is difficult for some dogs to digest effectively, which leads to G.I. upsets.

    - Mushrooms and molds can be toxic to dogs. Some varieties are more toxic than others.

    - Nutmeg is a seasoning that causes tremors, seizures, and death in dogs.

    - Onions and garlic, both cooked and raw, contain thiosulphate which can cause digestive upsets, hemolytic anemia, and death. Onions contain more of the toxin than garlic does.

    - Raw egg whites contain avidin which causes B vitamin deficiency, skin problems and skeletal deformities Raw eggs can also harbor salmonella or e.coli.
    *I give up to 2 raw eggs a week with no issues*

    - Raw fish, especially salmon, may contain parasites that are dangerous for dogs. Mercury in raw fish should also be considered.

    - Seeds and fruit pits can cause choking or intestinal blockages and some contain cyanide which is toxic to dogs.

    - Xylitol causes an insulin reaction in dogs which can lead to liver failure within a few days. It’s found in many candies, gums, toothpastes, and pastries.

    - Greasy, fatty table scraps can cause pancreatitis in dogs. Pancreatitis is an inflammation of the pancreas caused when too much digestive enzyme is produced. Affected dogs may have bloody vomit or diarrhea and suffer dehydration and even death.

    - Snacks shared with your dog need to be checked for hidden ingredients. Some foods such as cookies, gravies, and even some baby foods, can contain chocolate, nuts, onions, excessive salt or sugar, or other items dangerous for dogs. Keeping garbage cans secured is a good idea too.

    - Pennies are another danger to dogs worth mentioning. Those dated after 1981 are made from zinc with a thin copper coating. A dog swallowing just one of these pennies can suffer damage to red blood cells and kidney failure, due to zinc poisoning.
  • edited November -1
    Thanks tsukitsune. Thats a good list. I just dont understand the grape thing. Just like some people give their dogs garlic, my dogs have had grapes with no side effects at all, none whatsoever. I have also given the dogs raw eggs, no problems. I wonder if some of these are precautions.Like how many of us avoid corn in dog food because it can be a source of allergies, not all dogs are allergic to it, but better safe then sorry? I do think with some of these it is the amount that is that is truly dangerous, just my opinion.
  • edited November -1
    Well, I avoid corn in dog food not because the dogs are allergic to it, but because I believe there're better sources of calories and not just empty calories, like calories from protein.

    Every single dog will have problem digesting the cellulose and other stuff in corn, even if they aren't allergic to it. Corn just isn't an optimal ingredient to be feeding a dog. Can they have some? Sure, but we're a bit of health fanatics here.. :S

    Corn in dog food isn't quite the same as chocolate for dogs though, and IMHO I think that for safety's sake, if it just isn't known at what amount will cause problems in a dog (say 10mg versus 100mg), it's just better to err on the safe side and give none.
  • edited November -1
    I agree with not feeding corn for more reason that just allergies, just tried to make a comparison as far as toxins goes. I dont like corn in my dogs food either.
  • edited November -1
    Well, our previous dog (miniature dachshund) once ate an entire dark chocolate bar with no ill effects. Perhaps it depends on the dog as well as the amount.
  • edited November -1
    "- Raw egg whites contain avidin which causes B vitamin deficiency, skin problems and skeletal deformities Raw eggs can also harbor salmonella or e.coli.
    *I give up to 2 raw eggs a week with no issues*"

    ---------I've read that dogs can actually digest salmonella and break it down (unlike humans).
  • edited November -1
    That is a pretty awesome list...Thanks Jen for posting it.

    Interesting (actually more gross) story about corn. At the dog park one day and this one dog started pooping. Well it looked kind of odd, and my guys were all interested in sniffing it, so I went over there to drag them away so the owner can pick it up in peace. low and behold, about 90% of the poop was actually whole kernels of corn that look (almost0 fresh off the plate.

    Another sort of story. I had a neighbor whose dogs diet mostly consisted of beer, carrots and broccoli. She died at the age of 13
  • edited November -1
    Our dog growing up, MacArthur, was a pound puppy mutt, we got him when he was 7 months old. His diet was pedigree kibble, taco bell, macdonalds, stale bread, pasta, pizza, well really anything we had was his dinner...

    He lived to be 18 years old....
  • edited November -1
    The nutritionist I've been working with calls diets like that "starvation diets" - the dog can sustain life on the foods, but the organs are always in overdrive to extract nutrients and the dog usually has pica tendencies compensate for what is not found in the food. Starving, but with food.

    This 'diet' is thought to heavily increase instances of diabetes, cancer and heart disease in dogs.

    My mom's dog is turning 15 this year. She's been given everything from rib bones (cooked) to chicken soup (with onions), from Ol Roy to Rachel Ray... and yet she's still a freakishly healthy 15 year old dog. Blows my mind. Though, she does have arthritis really bad, incontinence at times and cataracts. I 'donated' my bag of Acana Pacifica to my mom and hope that sustains her even longer.

    I think the ultimate goal I have with the diet I feel is best for my dogs (which changes) is twofold
    1. Disease prevention
    2. Adding life to their years (and years to their life)
  • edited November -1
    Yeah, I'm hoping that Mylo's strict diet keeps him healthy and happy, and that the extra cost I'm putting into his food will reduce my vet bill costs =0)
  • edited November -1
    i've also heard turkey is not good for dogs. and with the holidays coming up i guess we should watch out for that.

    also i read somewhere that cheese is not good for dogs...is this true? cause i give cheese to my shiba as a treat and she seems fine.
  • edited November -1
    So, given that avacados are not excellent for dogs, can someone remind me why Avoderm is food for dogs?
  • edited November -1
    I'm not sure why turkey would be bad except if you give the dog cooked turkey with a bunch of spices and stuff, but I'd think normal boiled turkey with nothing added would be good for kibble fed dogs and I know some raw feeders are feeding their dog some raw turkey too so I dunno..
  • edited November -1
    Turkey isn't bad for dogs. That is just simply misinformation.
  • edited November -1
    Kenshi you and I were both thinking the same thing. This shiba owner down at the park feeds him 1/2 Avoderm/ 1/2 Wellness and let me tell you her dog has THE BEST COAT I have EVER seen! But the avocado thing is wierd.
  • edited November -1
    From AvoDerm's site, (but of course they're also pitching their product so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Also avacado in the AvoDerm is the 7th and 9th ingredients listed so it's not like it's the base of the food)

    Dr. Art Craigmill, UC Davis, Professor and Extension Specialist in Environmental Toxicology has said that his studies and other research in the United States and Australia have shown that the problem of toxicity is in the leaves and the pit of the Guatemalan variety; the avocado meat of the fruit and oils have not been shown to be toxic. AvoDerm Natural pet products do not utilize any Guatemalan variety avocados, nor do we use any leaves or pits of any variety of avocados for our avocado meal and oil.

    The avocado meal and oil used in the AvoDerm Natural pet products comes from the meat of the fruit and does not contain leaves, bark, skin or pit of the fruit. The oil is extracted from ripened fruit in which the meat pulp has been separated from the skin and the pit. Through a mechanical separation process the oil is extracted and filtered and placed into sealed containers. The pulp of the fruit is dried, ground, and screened before being placed into its final packaging and than shipped to our facility.
  • edited November -1
    KFontaine04 said:
    Our dog growing up, MacArthur, was a pound puppy mutt, we got him when he was 7 months old. His diet was pedigree kibble, taco bell, macdonalds, stale bread, pasta, pizza, well really anything we had was his dinner...

    He lived to be 18 years old....


    Jen said:
    My mom's dog is turning 15 this year. She's been given everything from rib bones (cooked) to chicken soup (with onions), from Ol Roy to Rachel Ray... and yet she's still a freakishly healthy 15 year old dog. Blows my mind.

    And finally from Mylo:
    Yeah, I'm hoping that Mylo's strict diet keeps him healthy and happy, and that the extra cost I'm putting into his food will reduce my vet bill costs =0)

    Ideas on how to feed dogs are changing rapidly. Students of dog nutrition nowadays advocate variety. It is quite possible that the reasons MacArthur, above, and the 15-year old lived as long as they did was because of the variety of foods they were fed. That IS, after all, how dogs were fed 40 years ago before kibble foods came along -- they were thrown all kinds of foods, the same foods you (OK, your parents) and I ate and, by the way, thrived on, and fared just fine. The variety insured that they received many of the nutrients that they needed. It is now acknowledged by many canine nutritionists that keeping a dog on a strict diet is exactly the wrong thing to do. For one thing a dog is more prone to allergies the longer he has been on the very same food. There is nothing wrong with feeding dogs table foods or meats in moderation as a supplement to their diets. It in fact keeps digestive enzymes more active and may make them less prone to gastric upsets if they DO encounter something different.

    That's not to say that there aren't dogs that have lived long lives on Science Diet, either, and there are some dogs that will even tolerate Ole Roy. But we know dogs can "survive" on a lot of things; it's not optimal nutrition.

    For enlightenment on dog feeding, try this site. Many of you know it and know Mary Straus who wrote those feeding articles in The Whole Dog Journal a while back.

    http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html
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