Introducing Hachi Mitsu
Shiba Inu, 1.5 y/o, epileptic, not yet spayed, just started walking around house with heightened awareness,restless, tail down and as tucked as a shiba tail can be, looking like she is hearing things. Also, is found resting in small areas that are not usual for her.
Today she took off running like mad face first into a chair, knocked it over and soiled my entire kitchen.
Everything else is normal: appetite, sleep, bowels, etc
Any ideas?
Today she took off running like mad face first into a chair, knocked it over and soiled my entire kitchen.
Everything else is normal: appetite, sleep, bowels, etc
Any ideas?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
construction work in the area
neighbors
We are moving into our house in the fall and have put fostering for NYCSR on hold to bring in Hachi and until we can determine whether our shiba capacity is maxed and what the space situation will be like and all that stuff.
She is beautiful and submissive and tolerant, other than her crazies this morning and last night, she's doing as good as can be expected for her. She is extremely timid of anything new and seems to forget us overnight..
she just kind of hangs out under the rocking chair or under the kitchen table at night..
on Friday we're taking her for pre-spay bloodwork and to reevaluate her epilepsy and check for any ear infections that might be causing the crazies.. she might just be pms-ing!
Is she bumping into a lot of things, or just that chair? Seems unlikely she would be blind at 1.5 years though.
But she eats OK, not great, she'll pick at food during the day and eats about 1/2 cup when she's gated in the kitchen at night and drinks some water, not a lot. She's been walking fine, not leashed trained but as good as she can in the harness, she did a light jog with me this morning and was actively playing with toys last night with our two dogs for the first time..
I'm at a loss until Friday I guess.
On Memorial Day we brought her to a family picnic - a small one with about 15 people - and she was skittish around new people and a tennis ball that she was given but once she smelled then or it she was really good, with adults and a 5 year old alike - but if they walked away and returned it was like she forgot them already.. so sad. Poor Hachi.
Was your breeder female very timid and skittish? Did she hide from you? Was she eating and pottying normally?
I think the fact that she lived all but a couple days of her life in a kennel has a great deal to do with her being timid and very uneasy and generally 'out of it' but it just seems to me that a health related issue might be culprit as well.
And in fact, I too felt she had eye problems and was bumping into things. This wasn't my imagination. Someone at the doggie park noticed her appearing to be disoriented. And I had my vet look at her and agree there was something, not cataracts, but something, she just didn't know what, and referred me to an opthomologist. I decided to return her at that point, in light of the fact that Jake didn't care much for her, I just couldn't see them ever bonding, and decided not spend the money.
The breeder told me they were showing dogs later that month and would have an opthomologist look at her at the show. The follow-up report I received after that was 'her eyes are fine". Go figure. I still don't believe it, but now, after your post, I question it.
She had a good appetite as long as it was given to her away from Jake. I believe that was a learned behavior out of necessity because she was required to eat up or shut up as she lived in a kennel with a dominant female.
She preferred to live outside. When I was home, I always kept the door open so they could go in or out at will. She would sit at the door threshold but not come inside.
Maybe now I learn I might not have given it enough time at 3 weeks, but I don't regret my decision. Jake made all our lives a living hell for those 3 whole weeks!
You will know better once your vet checks her out.
She is smart, she is sweet when she realizes who we are again but she won't play with the dogs - even Kitsune was giving her play invitations and she doesn't want them yet - but she will interact and sniff and walk next to them and let Tsuki lay near her. I can see she is a good dog with big issues and realize that we have to give her at least 2 months trial - and we've discussed all this with her breeder who also thinks that she is just confused from the non confinement and being indoors. We'll see!
I think disoriented is a very good word to use!
It sounds like she could possibly have the onset of PRA. Seizures can also affect the optic nerves as well. Sometimes it is temporary sometimes not. Does she have startling problems when you reach over her or when she glimpses items in her peripheral vision? How is she about going down stairs?
Also, if she has not had much socialization with different items during critical development as a puppy she may always be shy and any major changes are going to be overwhelming for her. If she has seizures make sure to try to keep her from becoming overly stressed to prevent an onset or episode. It appears she needs a smaller hiding safety zone all her own without obstacles. During the adjustment period I would keep her in a smaller safe space. Adjustments can take time, go slowly so she learns to trust.
It appears that she has a lot of potential though, since she tries to come out of her shell at different times. Fyi, for completely non-socialized dogs (some mill dogs), the dog may completely freeze trying to melt into the floor and or bolt mindlessly to the most hidden spot.
Usually another dog will be needed to assist in making the mill dog comfortable. From what you describe she does not sound like she is “down and out” to that degree.
You can start adjustments though sound association cues so she learns who you are and you are safe, for example if there is a sound she is used to or associates positively (i.e. wrinkle of chip bag or jingle of keys) you can use that when you come in and then toss a treat she likes in her direction. Keep it non stressful to begin with and work up to full greetings with continued treats if she is worried about human stranger handling. If her sight is in fact going this method will help her adjust and tip her off to what’s going on too.
For dogs that are going blind or have gone blind you can teach them what is going to happen though your voice. Associative sound prevents startling and snapping or panic attacks if each event has a related cue. In either case sound cues are a good way to get a sight impaired or sensitive dog to adjust.
Here are some resources:
1. The Cautious Canine: How to help dogs conquer their fears by Patricia McConnell
2. Stress in Dogs: Learn how dogs show stress and what you can dog to help by Martina Scholz and Clarissa Von Reinhardt
3. Living with Blind Dogs: A resource book and training guide for the owners of blind & low vision dogs by Caroline Levin
Good luck and be patient
Snf
I think she is stressed to a very high degree and possibly acts or is disoriented from that stress. She has only had that one episode of running like mad into the chair and we have not had any indication or onset of seizures to confirm her epilepsy. Again, tomorrow is her vet appointment so we will see for sure then if she is and how to manage it.
I was actually doing some research of dog panic attacks last night.
She is fine going up and down stairs, a little hesitant at first but I don't think she's ever had to use them before but 6 days later she is a pro. She does have startling problems when people reach over her or when she glimpses items in her peripheral vision, still, but we are trying to socialize her and it seems every person we meet starts the greeting that way (over her) until I ask them to do it differently!
She is fine with other dogs unless they get 'rowdy' then if she can't see everything that is happening she starts to growl, especially if they are very near her or behind her.
This morning was a pleasant breakthrough - when I and my two other shibas came down stairs she actually was visibly excited to see us! Patience is certainly the key - with any dog, rescue or not - and she needs ours!
Reminds me of a Cesar Millan-ism:
"You have to be thinking about that rehabilitation, and about training yourself just as you train your dog. To do that, YOU have to have a good role model. The role model will guide and ensure that your dog is always getting the best out of you. Remember, it takes time, dedication, and patience above all else."
I was looking back on my resource shelf and forgot to mention a good book I often refer back to when working with particular dogs that need integration help in dealing with the “real world”, be it from their inherent nature or lack of nurture in “puppyhood”.
Titled:
Help for your shy dog: Turning your terrified dog into a terrific Pet by Deborah Wood
I agree with most everything except the last paragraph on page 105. It is decent book though with some good strategies. It is my pick among some of the others I mentioned for shy dogs/adjusting dogs.
Snf
Seizures are caused by stress, not sleeping well enough, not eating, fear&anxiety and in photo-sensitive patients: flickering lights. Some women also experience more seizures or symptoms around their cycle days. Soiling is a possible consequence of total or partial seizures.
So, applying it to a dog, it might mean that this dog is acting erratic because of the hormone surge she's experiencing, being in a new place or there's something specific making her tense. I'd focus on making her feel as comfortable/safe as possible. Crowding her won't help, though. Again, I don't know anything about animal epilepsy, but I'm guessing there must by medication for dogs too - I for one am lost without it!
She has not yet had an actual seizure but has been acting disoriented and erratic - so the hormone surge is very possible and all the other stressors combined is a tough thing for a little dog!
We are trying to comfort her without crowding her, its difficult because she rarely wants to be near anyone.. so we are relying on soft words and slow reassuring movements.
and now we're having a problem getting her to have a normal bowel movement - for the last 48 hours it seems that the only time she will have one is out of fear - yesterday with the crazy episode and today my husband was walking her in the yard (a full 24 hours since she last BM'd) and the UPS man came to deliver her new dog bed, and the box size and sound scared the BM out of her all over our porch. Lovely.
I'll make sure to post the vet's evaluation of her epilepsy and any treatment plans after tomorrow.
Thanks again - the support and valuable information is what keeps me coming back to this forum!
Personally, I believe she is so out of her known element that she is in shock. What I have definitely learned about the Shiba over the past 6+ months, after having different breeds of dogs all my life, is that they are the most tempermental and sensitive to all things around them and require a great deal of patience as they get to know, learn and trust us, but in the long run the breed pays off like none other -- in their loyalty, spirit, devotion and overall balance.
I believe their tempermental side stems from their inate and unique dog ability to 'take everything in' unlike most dogs that live for the moment and quickly forget without repetition. Jake is definitely the smartest dog I have ever owned, no question in my mind. He picks up sentences, not words, sentences from once and no more than hearing them twice. But, he picks them up because he loves and respects me and wants to hear what I have to say, a process that has happened over time.
The Shiba is constantly aware of everything that surrounds them and their memories are longer and larger, even if nothing traumatic has occurred in their past. Adjustment periods are just as unique as the Shiba because of their high sensitivity. All dogs like routine and when the Shibas' is disrupted they need to adjust w/out force from others. Not physical force, but anything that forces them to move further along in a time period they require. This is more so true of adults that have had more experiences in their lives than puppies.
K.. I'm done :-)
Ok I’ll go back to work now (LOL)….You all are too addictive!
Snf
PS: Scarlet, Mine know full sentences too! We tried coding with new words and switching... they figure that out too. I had dobermans for years and while very loyal and smart the Spitzies are the ones who figured out the sentences the best.. they certainly are their own unique sensitive beings that's for sure.
We are treating her like a puppy in regards to frequency of bathroom breaks. I know its her adjusting to everything and its only been a week but I just wonder if we should be doing anything different than the normal routine we have for our dogs potty walks so that she will go on her own without having it scared out of her..
Hachi never having been on a leash til now is most likely the issue. Can you take her somewhere off leash for potty ventures until trust and further bonding is achieved? Also, can you bond w/her w/out the other dogs, take her by herself? Establish a slow trust...
I kind of feel like we need to establish ourselves as benevolent leaders first and foremost and secondly cuddle and play and all that. Its difficult because she clearly has a lot of catching up to do in the human affection department and the woman in me just wants to hold her until all the bad stuff goes away (!!) but the behaviorist warned us that coddling and talking in any sort of excitable play tone or being overly affectionate or giving in to their every interaction will make our dogs view us as weak pack members and not benevolent leaders.
I did this with Joey when he came home. I fed him separately from Lucy. He got water separately. He got treats separately. He got walked separately. And he got affection separately as well. After two or three weeks had passed and we had begun to bond, I slowly started doing more and more things with Lucy and Joey together. IMO, that approach worked really well.
Our behaviorist believes in free feeding, as I do too, and Kitsune seems to agree with it even with the new dog so feeding becomes a constant pack experience, its always available. As is water.
We dove right into pack activity when we got Tsuki, at which time we had 2 cats and one other dog, and she and I now have the strongest bond. Kitsune bonded with my husband immediately, we had 2 cats and 2 other dogs then, so we reinforced the pack structure immediately and with a (now) third dog it will be very hard to break the routine of our two shibas to give her all that solo activity time but as time goes on we will see what works for her specifically.
But I am currently taking your advice with my husband - she is more fearful of men, especially in dark clothing, so I have him continuously spending one on one bonding time during walks and play with her for trust. We aren;t doing treats yet so I think when that time comes I will have most of them coming from him.
I think every dog and situation merits its own method - and when you find one that works - thats awesome!
In most cases, fosters need that one on one trust-building approach - and we have certainly provided that - but this dog I think will benefit greatly in her lack of self esteem to feel apart of the pack as soon as we can establish that.
Lucy handled the separation about as well as I could have expected (see the "Lucy is acting up" thread). It's been two months now and she, with the exception of the side effects from the medication she is on, is back to her loving and playful self. I understand your reluctance to breaking up your routine with your other dogs, but not doing so may make the transition for your new dog more difficult.
She also has her vet appointment tomorrow which will shed any light on how we should tailor her rehabilitation from a medical standpoint.
Scarlet - they like to think they are boss - very true - but if I had 3 shibas thinking they all can call the shots, I'd have a serious ulcer happening!
Here are some pack pictures.. can't get the image to embed.. hmm.
http://picasaweb.google.com/shibaslave/ThePack