well Hachi is as healthy as she can be, no eye issues or ear issues and checks in at a healthy 18.5 lbs.
After testing, the vet doesn't see any neurological abnormalities to define her epilepsy so she is not calling Hachi as such on her chart until we observe an episode of seizure.
She believes because of her detachment with civilization and social experiences she has a heightened awareness of sound and change and add the stress of all that to her heat and crazy hormone surges she's reacting in a major "FLIGHT" way (the crazies).
So, from a medical standpoint, we're golden. Now we see what the behaviorist suggests this afternoon..
Brandon,
I was reading a past thread about Nemo's seizures.. how have they been? What was the severity of the seizure the first time you experienced it?
I'm concerned that all this stress and change for Hachi will bring on one, although I have not seen it, I'm wondering if I missed something... because the breeder said she was epileptic...
I think Nemos last seizure was about a year ago, it has really been awhile. That we know of anyhow, it's not impossible that he could have one during the day when we are not home. At night I think I would hear him bang around a bit in his kennel but I can't be sure.
His seizures were never very severe. He did not experience loss of consciousness or bladder control. Basically he got kind of a "wild/feral" look in his eyes, and stumbled around a bit, or leaned against the wall oddly. The longest one was about 1.5 minutes.
Dave - I wanted to let you know what the behaviorist said..
He confirmed what I thought he meant by pushing pack activities from day one to improve her self esteem through pack structure - walking, eating, drinking, playing, sleeping - he believes that she will benefit most by us including her in these activities with the other dogs because of her total detachment from dog, human and general world interactions. Her self esteem is a vital part of her rehabilitation and we need to focus on that as a priority to successfully socialize her and create a well balanced, happy dog.
However, he believes when the pack is in 'down (rest) time', we should do all we can to talk one on one with her, pet her, comfort her with words and actions without crowding her when she wants to hide or be alone. He thinks this one on one attention will benefit her more than seperating her from group activities to focus on trust with the pack leader exclusively.
He invited us to bring her to a group session he is having in 2 weeks - I guess its sort of like a Petsmart Puppy Training Class for adult dogs with social issues - and thinks this will help with bonding and socialization at the same time.
I am no expert by any means, but your advice was very, very helpful for a comparitive analysis on his theory of dog nature vs. human nurture - I can see it benefitting the dog in either method - but as he is working with my pack I am going to try to follow his method. At least we'll have methods and results to compare and discuss when its all said and done!!
Thanks again
I guess I can give an update on Hachi:
She has been given a clean bill of health, we took her to a veterinary neurological specialist near Philly, PA - to see about her grade of epilepsy - and there is nothing abnormal whatsoever.
She has also made terrific progress, pooping on a regular basis, walking very nicely on a leash, this morning she went up to a neighbor walking by us, barked once but let him pet her. It was the first time she made a sound!
Her tail is up and curled now and she even shows excitement to see us!
We are finding that she thrives both in pack playtime as well as one on one time with us, petting her, talking to her, brushing her.. she loves the attention from us and our dogs.
Last night she decided to share the bed and our dogs didn't mind a bit, she even slept next to Kitsune!
She's a sweet dog, I'm glad we are seeing her peek out of her shell a bit more each day.
We're a little worried about how she will do when we move but I'm sure with us and our dogs there with her it won't be so bad.
We hope to start obedience training within the next week or two now that she's more acclimated and familiar with our routines.
Although as of late, Kitsune has been paying "special attention" to Hachi, her being in heat and all.. in such a way that I'm compelled to separate them in order to give Hachi some time to eat and drink in the common areas. Its not a 24/7 hounding, but a very very frequent hounding.
He was altered before we even adopted him - so a good year or so he's been without his man-ness and the hormones and drive that left with his neuter, why is he still so dedicated to the deed???
I think you can take away a dogs ability to get the deed done, but not the hardwiring to want to get it done. I brought a home a stray sometime last year, picked her up while we were on a walk. Nemo just loved her, it was very bizarre, but I was really happy. Then I noticed that she was dripping blood all over my floor, and that was why Nemo liked her so much.
Is it a predatory thing?
I'm trying to fully understand it as to not put too much emphasis on their being separated for his actions if they should not be corrected.
Actually the behaviorist said that although Kitsune has come a long way with food possessiveness (not aggression) and his social anxieties, her being in heat probably helped her be accepted by him all the sooner. He said if we perceive Kitsu's actions as rude, than we should correct them by separating them for intervals of time - which we have been doing.
Since she is just getting used to being inside, does she have a safe haven inside the house, like her own crate [maybe with the door off]? I was looking at the picture of her under the chair, which looked like it was providing a little 'cave' where she felt safe.
Actually yes - we have a floor nook at the top of our stairs that is now a double door closet, we took our hamper out and unhinged the bottom door and put in a dog bed and she spends a majority of her time in there. Her little den under the shelves. At first she was solely under the rocking chair.
When I go to work, I also am separating the dogs - while Tsuki and kitsune can be trusted to be together loose in the house, I was putting Hachi in a pen in the kitchen, but she doesn't know how to walk on the tile and that freaks her out into a messy fit so I've been blocking the stairwell for the day so she can stay in her den with just a bowl of water at her access. She is less stressed when I come home being able to stay in her desired area and slowly spends more time with us after walks downstairs - very very slowly. I will continue to allow her to have her little den for as long as she needs it - is there a point in time when I would want to discourage her retreat?
Last night, Hachi initiated a 2 minute play session with Tsuki, nibbling on her neck and ear and going into play stance. Then this morning, Hachi came to her name, tail up, and took a treat from my hand before I left for work. I cried a little
Comments
After testing, the vet doesn't see any neurological abnormalities to define her epilepsy so she is not calling Hachi as such on her chart until we observe an episode of seizure.
She believes because of her detachment with civilization and social experiences she has a heightened awareness of sound and change and add the stress of all that to her heat and crazy hormone surges she's reacting in a major "FLIGHT" way (the crazies).
So, from a medical standpoint, we're golden. Now we see what the behaviorist suggests this afternoon..
I was reading a past thread about Nemo's seizures.. how have they been? What was the severity of the seizure the first time you experienced it?
I'm concerned that all this stress and change for Hachi will bring on one, although I have not seen it, I'm wondering if I missed something... because the breeder said she was epileptic...
His seizures were never very severe. He did not experience loss of consciousness or bladder control. Basically he got kind of a "wild/feral" look in his eyes, and stumbled around a bit, or leaned against the wall oddly. The longest one was about 1.5 minutes.
He confirmed what I thought he meant by pushing pack activities from day one to improve her self esteem through pack structure - walking, eating, drinking, playing, sleeping - he believes that she will benefit most by us including her in these activities with the other dogs because of her total detachment from dog, human and general world interactions. Her self esteem is a vital part of her rehabilitation and we need to focus on that as a priority to successfully socialize her and create a well balanced, happy dog.
However, he believes when the pack is in 'down (rest) time', we should do all we can to talk one on one with her, pet her, comfort her with words and actions without crowding her when she wants to hide or be alone. He thinks this one on one attention will benefit her more than seperating her from group activities to focus on trust with the pack leader exclusively.
He invited us to bring her to a group session he is having in 2 weeks - I guess its sort of like a Petsmart Puppy Training Class for adult dogs with social issues - and thinks this will help with bonding and socialization at the same time.
I am no expert by any means, but your advice was very, very helpful for a comparitive analysis on his theory of dog nature vs. human nurture - I can see it benefitting the dog in either method - but as he is working with my pack I am going to try to follow his method. At least we'll have methods and results to compare and discuss when its all said and done!!
Thanks again
I guess I can give an update on Hachi:
She has been given a clean bill of health, we took her to a veterinary neurological specialist near Philly, PA - to see about her grade of epilepsy - and there is nothing abnormal whatsoever.
She has also made terrific progress, pooping on a regular basis, walking very nicely on a leash, this morning she went up to a neighbor walking by us, barked once but let him pet her. It was the first time she made a sound!
Her tail is up and curled now and she even shows excitement to see us!
We are finding that she thrives both in pack playtime as well as one on one time with us, petting her, talking to her, brushing her.. she loves the attention from us and our dogs.
Last night she decided to share the bed and our dogs didn't mind a bit, she even slept next to Kitsune!
She's a sweet dog, I'm glad we are seeing her peek out of her shell a bit more each day.
We're a little worried about how she will do when we move but I'm sure with us and our dogs there with her it won't be so bad.
We hope to start obedience training within the next week or two now that she's more acclimated and familiar with our routines.
Although as of late, Kitsune has been paying "special attention" to Hachi, her being in heat and all.. in such a way that I'm compelled to separate them in order to give Hachi some time to eat and drink in the common areas. Its not a 24/7 hounding, but a very very frequent hounding.
He was altered before we even adopted him - so a good year or so he's been without his man-ness and the hormones and drive that left with his neuter, why is he still so dedicated to the deed???
I'm trying to fully understand it as to not put too much emphasis on their being separated for his actions if they should not be corrected.
Actually the behaviorist said that although Kitsune has come a long way with food possessiveness (not aggression) and his social anxieties, her being in heat probably helped her be accepted by him all the sooner. He said if we perceive Kitsu's actions as rude, than we should correct them by separating them for intervals of time - which we have been doing.
When I go to work, I also am separating the dogs - while Tsuki and kitsune can be trusted to be together loose in the house, I was putting Hachi in a pen in the kitchen, but she doesn't know how to walk on the tile and that freaks her out into a messy fit so I've been blocking the stairwell for the day so she can stay in her den with just a bowl of water at her access. She is less stressed when I come home being able to stay in her desired area and slowly spends more time with us after walks downstairs - very very slowly.
I will continue to allow her to have her little den for as long as she needs it - is there a point in time when I would want to discourage her retreat?
This is progress.