Adopting a 2nd Shiba...UPDATED with PICS 8-13

edited July 2008 in Shiba Inu (柴犬)
I may be adopting a second shiba. The shiba in question is an intact male, approx. 1 year old. Owners are surrendering the dog because of a move. I have a 5 year old spayed female named Jazz.

I've got some questions:
1. Jazz is a bit dog reactive. She's calmed down alot since I got her in September 07. I know from reading other posts that Jazz needs to be tired out and on neutral ground before introducing this new dog to her. Have any of you had a dog reactive shiba and added another dog to the group?

2. What other suggestions do you have for the introduction?

3. What possible problems could you foresee? I'll take any info - I'm writing down stuff, but I'm wanting to make sure I'm looking at this from every angle. Supposedly, the new dog does very well with other dogs - in fact, currently lives with another shiba (that the owners are keeping).

4. I saw a post about changing a dog's name. The dog's current name is Yoshi - if I do take the dog, the name would change to one of the following: Duke (as in Duke Ellington), Fletcher (as in Fletcher Henderson), Gillespie (as in Dizzy Gillespie). Do you think any of those names would be more difficult for a dog to learn than the others?

5. What problems do you think may come from Jazz's side of the equation? I'm a firm believer in using a crate when I'm not home. The new dog is familar with a crate (comes with his current crate actually).
«13456

Comments

  • edited November -1
    1. yes, Kitsune was a bit dog reactive after the fight between him and the foster. I think we can try to make as great an intro as possible and as great a situation as we can, but ultimately, the dogs either hit it off or they don't - but with two shibas of the opposite sex, the odds are in your favor that they will be able to work it out - with time!
    Kitsune and Tsuki hit it off within a few short hours of meeting, while it took him a couple days to adjust to the foster male basset, but then they both (shibas) immediately took to Hachi..

    2. I actually wrote a shiba-to-shiba introduction article recently for a friend, I can email it to you!

    3. Its odd that they are keeping one shiba but not the other, so perhaps assuming an issue exists in Yoshi as the reason they did not choose to keep him will not be a terrible thing. Are you able to meet him w/o Jazz prior to adoption? It might give you a better idea of where he's coming from.
    It's hard to say what issues may arise, but typical shiba issues will be the 'mines' and the snarkies and the loud crazy displays without much real action. *Most* shiba disdain is all vocals with little bite, and redirecting that will prevent major issues in otherwise normal pups.
    I think being overly prepared and cautious can only help you - be ready to control all their interactions for at least a month or so (I think it takes 2-3 months to really see true colors), be ready to know when to let them work it out and when to intervene, know fight vs. play vs. calming signals, all that...

    4. A dog named Fletch is crazy awesome. I don't think he'd have a tough time with them, new names are the easy part of a dog's transition IMO.

    5. Jazz might appear what we call 'jealous' but I think realizing that both dogs will need your individual attention and bonding time while also needing together time and play and positive interaction will help... its hard to say!But I found that keeping our daily routine exactly the same (as much as we could) really helped our existing shibas adjust to newbies.

    I hope that helped! But Dave's pups are clearly doing very, very well and he knows Jazz (right?) so maybe he can help shed more light on what I'm missing! I'll email you that article for question 2.

    CONGRATS!!
  • edited November -1
    Jen - thanks so much! I'm still talking it out with my brother - he pays over half the bills, so he's got a big say in this as well.

    I can meet Yoshi without Jazz and probably will. My friend Amber is doing the intake and eval - I am concerned that Yoshi may have some behavioral issues and that's the reason for the surrender. I'm unsure on several things - I'll keep you guys updated.
  • edited November -1
    Ditto on what Tsukisune stated. Take it slow with integrations and keep "play" sessions short no more than 15 minutes at a time to begin with. I would certainly visit to see how this boy interacts with their current dog or other dogs before having him meet Jazz. You really need a big picture about the dog you plan to bring in. In terms of Jazz, reactive dogs need more time and space. Entryways and confined spaces where dogs are pushed too close can cause flair big ups. Have a separate area that you can keep the newcomer without stressing Jazz

    Being cautious and proactive is good thing!
    Snf
  • edited November -1
    1. I have a reactive Akita and added another dog. We had to introduce Mika to 3 different dogs before we chose Keigo. I went to the Akita rescue with the intention of getting a white male. I remember saying that if it didn't work out with Cody, I wasn't going to adopt a dog. Period. LOL. Mika got 10 feet from Cody and they both started growling. We couldn't even walk a step together.

    Well, The night before, I looked on their site and saw Keigo and his brother, Kyoto, and thought they were cute. So, we had Mika meet both. Because Keigo and Kyoto weren't particularly aggressive, we got to meet them in the back, off leash. Keigo and Mika clicked immediately!!! We then had Mika meet Kyoto and she kicked his ass, so Keigo was the chosen one.

    2. Tell us about this other dog. Are you familiar with their personality, other than being good with another dog? Are they dominant, submissive, fearful, etc.

    3. Did the owners mention how Yoshi does with dogs outside of his pack? Mika is GREAT with Keigo, she tries to kill OTHER dogs.

    4. Awe, I like the name Yoshi. I just donated money to the Akita Rescue of WNY on behalf of a pup named Yoshi.

    5. Jealousy, fighting for higher pack order, marking, there a number of possibilities.
  • edited November -1
    I will definitely get more background on Yoshi. While this person is a member of the meetup group, they've never attended, so I've never met either of their dogs before. I know nothing other than what I've posted on the other dog - my biggest concern is Jazz - she's come so far since I brought her home. While I would love to have a second shiba, I am unwilling to set her back any at all. Lots of things for me to consider and to get feedback on from Amber. She has 2 shibas already and a pom. I'll talk with her more this weekend after the pickup.

    The choices of Duke, Fletcher, and Gillespie come from my love of Jazz music. Years ago, I played in a jazz band in college (ironically in the town where Fletcher Henderson was born). I thought it was very cool when I went to get Jazz and found out that her name was I'm Jazi.
  • edited November -1
    That's great LJ! I think in the long run having a furry buddy will be really good for Jazz. I know it has helped Lucy a lot. Even though she still has some confidence issues, she's come a long way with Joey, especially since he is the dominant one and she can relax and let him handle certain social situations she didn't enjoy being in.

    As far as Jazz goes, I think your job in managing the interaction may be a bit tougher than mine was. Since Yoshi is already older, Jazz won't be able to boss him around the way Lucy did when Joey first got here. That's where your part is vitally important. To make Jazz comfortable, you have to let her know that you are in complete control of Yoshi. Every second of their interactions at first will need to be under your strict control. Like Snf said, keep things short and calm with lots of praise for both when they remain calm around each other. In your case, I think making sure Yoshi is extremely tired before the introduction is more important than Jazz being tired. Since they are both old enough, you should introduce them on a walk. Something like you take Jazz and someone like me can take Yoshi and walk them around for an hour or so and then meetup and continue the walk together for long enough that the initial excitement of meeting each other wears off.

    Also, one mistake that I made which I will caution you about is giving Lucy extra attention when Joey arrived. I went out of my way to make sure she felt comfortable and got some snuggle time. I think she picked up on it and it just reinforced to her that something was very different. My suggestion is to enforce the same rules for both of them. Let them both spend time in their crates equally. Let them have out of crate time alone equally. Don't allow Jazz privileges that Yoshi doesn't get (unless she earns them through good behavior and vice versa with Yoshi). It may feel like you are being cruel to Jazz, but the fact of the matter is that you are forming a pack and in a pack the pack leader doesn't show favorites. Like Brad has said with his pack, you have to claim the leadership role and let them sort out the hierarchy below you. Due to Jazz's issues, you'll have to make sure that things get sorted out calmly so she doesn't become overly reactive or get scarred by a bad interaction.

    I think you can do it, but I think you are right to meet Yoshi on his own first. Once you've met him, you'll have a better idea of how Jazz will tolerate him.

    Good luck and let me know if I can help at all. Congrats if you decide to do it!!!!
  • edited November -1
    Hey LJ! Wow - this is an awesome thing - if you decide to go through with it. All I want to add is that I advise you to spend A LOT of time with the new dog - really bond with him and make him feel comfortable - regardless of how Jazz is acting. The new dog needs to feel safe and have time to bond with you 1 on 1 and learn to trust you. I would highly advise walking both dogs together - walking dogs together seems to help with the bonding and make it seem like they're walking in a "pack". When we would walk Ninja and Hanzo together - they did great. They would bump into eachother and walk next to eachother without a problem. Ninja had no issues with hanzo while on the walks. Just when Hanzo came inside the house - thats when he'd switch to aggressive mode.

    Another thing, since you have worked a lot with Jazz and have seen her improvements...its another thought to think about if SHE is ready. John , Portia and I were ready for Hanzo - but Ninja was not. Although bringing in Hanzo hasn't really effected Ninja's progress - it just let John and I know how severe his issues really were and made us heartbroken to have to send Hanzo back.

    It would be awesome if you could take Jazz to meet the new shiba and see how they interact together. Although things may be different inside your home.

    Keep us updated and let us know what happens!!! Im super excited for you and Jazz and hope everything works out!
  • edited November -1
    oh and duh...we have a sticky on this topic! did you check that out? hehe
  • edited November -1
    Thanks, Dave & Romi! I've emailed Yoshi's current owner with some specific questions on Yoshi to see if I can begin to get an idea to some of the answers. I may try to meet Yoshi when Amber does the pickup on Saturday to begin forming an opinion. It's our hope that even if I can't take Yoshi, that someone in our group can.

    My niece, Kodee was talking to me about how nice it would be to get another snuggler. I had to explain how rare Jazz is on the whole "I prefer to be carried" (Dave - y'know what I mean, you've seen how she looks when she's held) or how her spot is sitting in my lap or on my feet. I explained to her that most shibas are a bit more independent. She looked at me like I was crazy. She's the niece who goes with me to meetups - you'd think she'd pick up on some of the differences between Jazz and the other shibas.
  • edited November -1
    I did - I printed it for me to highlight and ask more questions.
  • edited November -1
    Congrats on your new dog LJ. I hope everything goes very smoothly for you, Jazz, and the new guy.
  • edited November -1
    Well, Amber picked up Yoshi and he seems to be doing well. He got a little carsick, but that may have been stress. He's dealing with 6 dogs and 1 cat right now and seems to be very submissive toward all of them. No aggression on his part toward any of the others with food or anything. She's watching him now for his overall behavior - said he was very friendly toward her.
  • edited November -1
    That's awesome LJ! When do you get to meet him?
  • edited November -1
    I'll talk to Amber today or tomorrow - maybe Wednesday or Saturday afternoon?
  • edited November -1
    how exciting!
  • edited November -1
    I missed this post I guess, sorry! Congrats LJ - how exciting!!! :o)

    ----
  • edited November -1
    I'm very excited as well - I just hope things turn out well - I don't want to get psyched about it and then it not be a good match. It's bad enough I already refer to Yoshi as Fletch or Fletcher.
  • edited November -1
    Fletch!! Thats such an awesome name for a dog!!!!
    I truly hope all goes well... either way this is a great learning experience!
  • edited November -1
    Thats great news LJ! I hope everything works out! Keep us updated and let us know what happens.
  • edited November -1
    You might want to determine if the new Shiba is a very dominant or aggressive dog. Our new Shiba was a very self confident dog that didn't feel the need to 'prove' anything. If the new guy is not real dog reactive I'm sure things will be fine. As I've mentioned before, we were able to introduce a 3 year old male Shiba into the household with a very dog aggressive Malamute female. It just took time and patience.
  • edited November -1
    From what Amber has told me so far, Yoshi/Fletch, is submissive in dealing with all of her dogs, especially the 3 shibas. Time & Patience are very much on my mind.

    When a dog is neutered - what is the typical healing time/process?
  • edited November -1
    most male dogs have to wear the cone for a good 5-7 days, and if he has dissolvable stitches, he'll probably be fine in a few days..
  • RyuRyu
    edited November -1
    I would say about 5-7 days as well. Even with all of Ryu's problems, he was back to his old self after 7 days.
  • edited November -1
    Tomorrow morning I am meeting with Amber & Fletch/Yoshi. My niece & 2 nephews will be with me and so will Jazz. I'll be meeting Fletch first, by myself while the kids are playing with Jazz out of sight. Once I see how Fletch responds to me we'll introduce Jazz. I'll let you know how it goes.
  • edited November -1
    I hope all goes well tomorrow! And if possible, make sure to take some pictures to spam us with! I am sure Fletch and Jazz will get along just fine. :)
  • edited November -1
    Good luck, LJ!!! I hope everything works out!
  • edited November -1
    Remember to have fun LJ! I hope all goes according to plan.
  • edited November -1
    Well, I'm finally having a chance to comment. We've had a fair amount of snarkies - I'm waiting (and hoping) to see it calm down. We arrived early to acclimate and tire Jazz, but she was in a MOOD! (Dave & Rachael - think of the BIG growls that she does). She didn't want any dog within 6 feet of her. We walked and she settled a bit once Fletch got there. She grumbled a bit about the introduction, but no real testing moments.

    We brought Fletch home with us. The ride home was not okay - Jazz was not fine with another dog in HER van. Once we got home, things evened out a bit, but I then had to leave - so both dogs went into their crates. The crates were in the same room and within sight. No whining from Fletch on the crate, but he's not used to hearing a crate command.

    Once I got home, out they came again. We had some wary circling, nips, corrective growls, and two snarling episodes. I had to take the kids to church so I put the dogs back in the crate - knowing I'd be gone for about an hour. Once we got back, it was dinnertime, Jazz quickly explained that she gets to choose which food bowl and water bowl she wants. Jazz would come away from the food and let Fletch eat. Fletch did well in not going to the bowl Jazz was eating at.

    I am a major point of contention for Jazz. If Fletch is by me, Jazz has to as well. This doesn't seem to apply for anyone else, but Jazz does strongly identify with me. Amber and I agreed that this is a trial run. Things have got to be the best for both dogs and the family. Overall, I think things went pretty well for today. I'll look through the photos my nephew took and see if any are good enough to post.
  • edited November -1
    How the heck did I not see this thread before????

    Congratulations on Fletch LJ! Sounds to me like it's going well as of now.
  • edited November -1
    Seems like a good introduction! Keep us updated on how everything goes!
This discussion has been closed.