Have any of you noticed a slight "rouch" on your Shikoku? If you slide your hand (or pet) over the back, do you feel a slight slope upwards on the spine?
Fromshikokudog.com: "All dogs should have "urajiro" markings which are markings of a white or cream color presented on the ventral portions of the body and legs and cheeks and brow of the head. " But on Shikoku, Urajiro is not like Shiba or Akita, I think wa can have different urajiro in Shikoku. (but i'm not sure)
Hummm not sure what part of the anatomy folks are talking about. I include a jpg here of anatomy get clarity on the parts.
Also here is a link about dog backs. I would think that a Shikoku should not have a roached back in the technical sense like a whippet or greyhound would. Actually I would expect a higher hip structure.
"I think so... you mean if you pet from head to tail, the spine gets slightly higher toward the back?" - Heidi
Yes, yes, it arches upward slightly when you get to the loin! I noticed it on Kei-kun, but when I checked Lynx, she doesn't have that...she's more "straight". So I was just wondering.
From what I hear, the Japanese don't do x-rays on their (native) dogs. I do hips/elbows, spine and eye certs on my dogs. I'm also going to do patellas on both breeds. And I want to do respiratory on Shikoku as well.
I reccommend that Shikoku owners (even if not for breeding and just pets) at least do OFA hips/elbows and patellas on your Shikoku after 2 years of age (especially if you are or planning on doing a performance event). You can check for health clinics in your area...they are cheaper and don't sedate your dog! I'd like to gather some more data on the breed, so if any of you get this done on your dogs, could you please post the results? It would be amazing if you could. Thanks.
Snf - Thanks for the photo with the canine terminology. This is a dog forum, where we talk about dogs. The correct terminology should be used. We can all learn and familarize ourselves with it. Good thinking!
Corina, I know that for Shibas the Japanese do not test and I do not think they have a database they use to track at all. Also, I do not think they partake in the U.S. CERF & OFA data either. So I expect it would be the same for the other Japanese breeds too. It isn't until the dogs are imported to the U.S. that the reputable Shiba breeder here begin on the OFA and CERF process for a dog.
About anatomy, I think depending on the lines and region the primitive Japanese dogs can have a top line tendency to rise up toward the hips. It may not be seen in every dog but it is an old trait and you will see more on Jindos or some of the other pariah dogs. I read somewhere that dogs with good coursing speed tend to have the rise toward or at the hips.
Tracking health results is an excellent idea!! In the best efforts of maintaining Shikoku as a quality breed it is a really smart idea to set up and start tracking data on hips/patellas(knees), eyes etc now in relation to family line, siblings etc etc. If it is commonly known which lines are carrying what early in the program here in the U.S., improvements may more easily be made or worked through, before the breed heads in a particular direction. (For example, I think it was Border Collies maybe Aussies who's breed was dominated by one foundation sire and his son for a long duration before it was known he/they was/were carrying a gene for poor hips and blindness. Most of that breed of dog in America was genetically linked and somewhat precarious until it was pinpointed and backtracking was done to improve the breed as a whole. In hindsight, It would have been a whole lot easier to nip in the bud if the data had be available years ago.)
I wonder if there is a way to get the Shikokus as a breed recognized in OFA so the data can be held there? ...Not sure at this point exactly how specific breeds are accepted.
Having those who have Shikokus as pets tested will be a big asset to tracking as well. Also most agility or working dogs are required by quality training orgs and centers to be tested to prevent injuries prior to full fledged activities. If a center does not ask you to do this, do as Corina suggests, take it upon yourself as a dutiful parent to get it done to save your dog the pain and grief of aggravated injuries . At the vary least it will help the breed in its study.
SnF: You are correct about some speedy dogs having a slight rise in their toplines.
I would advise checking the Shikoku breed standard to ascertain what is preferable for their back and loin conformation.
Here's what I found in the body section of FCI standard 319
Withers : High, well developed.
Back : Straight and strong.
Loins : Broad and muscular.
Chest : Deep, ribs well sprung.
Belly : Well tucked up
My interpretation is that the withers should be higher than the hips.
There are already three Shikoku in the OFA database, all females
Akashima's Kochi Ken Aiko Mura (CERF, Hips, Elbows)
Yana-Nanako V.D. Egmato (Hips, Elbows)
Zora-Nanako V.D. Egmato (Elbows, Patellas)
Comments
lol
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"All dogs should have "urajiro" markings which are markings of a white or cream color presented on the ventral portions of the body and legs and cheeks and brow of the head. "
But on Shikoku, Urajiro is not like Shiba or Akita, I think wa can have different urajiro in Shikoku. (but i'm not sure)
Also here is a link about dog backs. I would think that a Shikoku should not have a roached back in the technical sense like a whippet or greyhound would. Actually I would expect a higher hip structure.
http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/04_The_Back/The_Back.html
Snf
Snf
I think they are talking about the area just behind the withers? ~
So I take it behind the withers and over the loin?
Snf
Snf
******
Ok Thanks..... I figured it out "edit report post" twisted my brain since it was not delimited with pipes between them I.e. edit|report|post|
Yes, yes, it arches upward slightly when you get to the loin! I noticed it on Kei-kun, but when I checked Lynx, she doesn't have that...she's more "straight". So I was just wondering.
From what I hear, the Japanese don't do x-rays on their (native) dogs. I do hips/elbows, spine and eye certs on my dogs. I'm also going to do patellas on both breeds. And I want to do respiratory on Shikoku as well.
I reccommend that Shikoku owners (even if not for breeding and just pets) at least do OFA hips/elbows and patellas on your Shikoku after 2 years of age (especially if you are or planning on doing a performance event). You can check for health clinics in your area...they are cheaper and don't sedate your dog! I'd like to gather some more data on the breed, so if any of you get this done on your dogs, could you please post the results? It would be amazing if you could. Thanks.
Snf - Thanks for the photo with the canine terminology. This is a dog forum, where we talk about dogs. The correct terminology should be used. We can all learn and familarize ourselves with it. Good thinking!
About anatomy, I think depending on the lines and region the primitive Japanese dogs can have a top line tendency to rise up toward the hips. It may not be seen in every dog but it is an old trait and you will see more on Jindos or some of the other pariah dogs. I read somewhere that dogs with good coursing speed tend to have the rise toward or at the hips.
Tracking health results is an excellent idea!! In the best efforts of maintaining Shikoku as a quality breed it is a really smart idea to set up and start tracking data on hips/patellas(knees), eyes etc now in relation to family line, siblings etc etc. If it is commonly known which lines are carrying what early in the program here in the U.S., improvements may more easily be made or worked through, before the breed heads in a particular direction. (For example, I think it was Border Collies maybe Aussies who's breed was dominated by one foundation sire and his son for a long duration before it was known he/they was/were carrying a gene for poor hips and blindness. Most of that breed of dog in America was genetically linked and somewhat precarious until it was pinpointed and backtracking was done to improve the breed as a whole. In hindsight, It would have been a whole lot easier to nip in the bud if the data had be available years ago.)
I wonder if there is a way to get the Shikokus as a breed recognized in OFA so the data can be held there? ...Not sure at this point exactly how specific breeds are accepted.
Having those who have Shikokus as pets tested will be a big asset to tracking as well. Also most agility or working dogs are required by quality training orgs and centers to be tested to prevent injuries prior to full fledged activities. If a center does not ask you to do this, do as Corina suggests, take it upon yourself as a dutiful parent to get it done to save your dog the pain and grief of aggravated injuries . At the vary least it will help the breed in its study.
Snf
I would advise checking the Shikoku breed standard to ascertain what is preferable for their back and loin conformation.
Here's what I found in the body section of FCI standard 319
Withers : High, well developed.
Back : Straight and strong.
Loins : Broad and muscular.
Chest : Deep, ribs well sprung.
Belly : Well tucked up
My interpretation is that the withers should be higher than the hips.
There are already three Shikoku in the OFA database, all females
Akashima's Kochi Ken Aiko Mura (CERF, Hips, Elbows)
Yana-Nanako V.D. Egmato (Hips, Elbows)
Zora-Nanako V.D. Egmato (Elbows, Patellas)