dog-play - update from Frost

apshibaapshiba
edited October 2008 in Shiba Inu (柴犬)
Hello there

I have been scanning the forum but been busy lately.

anyways, I finally got the chainlink fence 5ft tall done for the backyard (about 70x40feet). Now that I am sure he is not going to run away while zooming, I am quite relaxed. Frost checked out the fence - he has almost forgotten that there was electirc fence before - he does sometime chase the ball all the way to the fence and sometimes stops 3-4 feet early as if there was a fence and he remembers the shock - intelligent guy - Hope he gets over it.

I also got neighbor's Pom to play with Frost. Biy he had a blast. But I am little bit concerned with his behavior. So here it goes -

while playing and chasing he seems to pin the other dog (about 11 Mo - male) to the ground and is grunting all the time. He does not bite the other dog but seems more aggressive. I am there to separate them out if Ithink the other dog is getting wrong end of the stick. Only once ot twice other dog chased Frost.

I have got the dog over 3 times now for 15 minutes. - boy he is so quiet after the play at home!

Am I overreacting? Shall I invite a bigger dog to play with Frost so that Frost "canbe shown/taught manners". I have found a shiba owner nearby and I am planning to invite them over.

So please give me some pointers about dog-to-dog play rules, warning signs etc.

I took couple of photos while they were playing - very hard to do that - I will post them

Comments

  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited November -1
    Shibas tend to play fast, furious, and often loud. I would only step in if the Pom seems truly distressed. Shibas and other spitz breeds also tend to chew on each other a lot when they play, grabbing the other dogs cheek, tail, or scruffs of fur.
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    I second what Brandon said. Look at any of the "play" photos on here & you'll see it looks pretty vicious when it's all just fun and games :)

    Inviting a bigger dog over would still be beneficial though. Socialization is key :) ~
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited October 2008
    Your best bet since Frost is your first shiba is to watch some shiba inu play style, via topics on this forum or typing in "Shiba Inu Play" on youtube.com.
    How much older and/or socialized is the Pom?
    Shiba play style can get hectic or appear "aggressive" or "dominant" but it is all just play.
    Esp. since Frost is inhibiting his bite, he probably wasn't crossing any boundaries for the Pom. Perhaps another dog couldn't have taken to being pinned the whole time, but all dogs and their play styles are somewhat different.

    If you are worried about his particular method of play, perhaps taking him to a social situation with different types of dogs would do him and you some good?

    I'll only use my videos, they aren't a perfect example - do you see how 'forceful' their play-style is?
    **Also, I notice that Kitsu the red (and Hachi the b&t) will be pinned a lot by Tsuki the cream, but she is rarely ever happy about being pinned during play and will not put up with it, she is usually the pinner, not the pinnee.





  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    edited October 2008
    Ditto to what Brandon (and Jen) said. Your Shiba's play partner will be the one to let you know if they are uncomfortable. Odds are they will let Frost know they aren't happy long before you have any indicator. Joey LOVES to play rough and tumble with other dogs. One of his good friends is a Silky Terrier and they are constantly chasing, tackling, and dominating each other. Its when they are both standing on their hind legs, front paws wrapped around each other, snarling that I step in (and mostly because Coco doesn't have the same play style as Joey so that behavior comes when he has had enough). The rest is just play. By way of contrast, another neighbor's Pomeranian wants nothing to do with Joey's hectic play style. A quick correction or two, and Joey looses interest and moves on. I suspect Frost will do the same.

    The Shbia play style takes some getting used to (by you and Front's play buddies). But once you have gotten over the "Oh crap they are fighting" response, its actually fascinating to watch. :-)
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    edited November -1
    Well it varies within each group. It would be a good idea to get your pup adjusted to several other types of canines too that are friendly with other dogs. Shibas are a bit bigger than a Pom so they can easily dominate the play by size alone.

    A good rule of thumb, if one dog is trying to get away and is being forced into border areas such as a fence or starts looking away or hiding under chairs etc it is time to stop. Also If the avoider is sitting down a lot or trying to move off to higher ground it is also good indicator it's time to stop. Boxing among shibas is not a good sign and usually indicates a fight will ensue. Some unsocialized Shibas stalk other dogs and ambush from behind not a good sign. Most dogs that are friendly will start play with a play bow and a visual cue to begin the antics.

    My dogs do not play as rough as Jen's cream. Mine are more like Hachi, they take only so much and say enough. They are 6 yrs old and older though so all the puppy antics are beneath them and they only tolerate so much.

    For young dogs I limit the sessions to 10 or 15 minutes on general principals since they don't know when to quit.I will walk and train in between and if the pups are good then they get another play session. Some dogs if they are left to play too long and are only dogs, tend to get really sore if left to their own devises. Throwing pups together in the back yard for an hour at at time I think is way too long. Usually the dominant dog takes advantage and it plucks the patiences of the others. As pups they need to learn some self control so the limited sessions are a good way to regroup and bring things back down to a sane level.

    Snf
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    edited November -1
    Today Jazz (my 5 yr old shiba) initiated play with my niece's 3 1/2 month old pug - I was thrilled...too thrilled to try and grab my camera. For those not familiar, Jazz doesn't really play with other dogs. When she does (it's very rare) it has been kind of half-hearted. She was play bowing and running around Sally - this lasted about 10 minutes and now she is passed out on my bed.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    GO JAZZ!!!!!!!
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    edited November -1
    That's fantastic!!!!!!! I'm so proud of Jazz! Give her a HHHHUUUUGGGGEEEE hug from me. :-D
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    edited November -1
    I will - maybe one day she'll actually play at the park. BTW, what time for lunch on Sunday 11:30 or 12?
  • sunyatasunyata
    edited November -1
    Yay for Jazz! I am so happy for her (and you!).
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    edited November -1
    I'm enrolled in a puppy obedience class with two other shiba inu littermate puppies, male and female (mine not related to theirs). The two owners sit next to each other and go at it and get on their hind legs and box and start baring fangs and snarking at each other when the owners make them face each other and do a "meet and greet". They then start freaking out and saying, "whoa...stop!" and pull the dogs apart. From the videos I've seen on here, I can tell the dogs are definitely just playing. Mine is 2 weeks younger than theirs and surprisingly wants nothing to do with it, just lies down and watches :) (We sit right next to them and are known as the "Shiba Inu group").

    Next time I go to class, I'll tell those two dog owners to get on this forum. Everyone has been invaluable in giving me advice on the nihon ken.

    Thanks,
    Jesse
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