Oh, you know what would be super handy? A profile on as many shikoku as possible. I'm envisioning someting like the geneology software that people use to do family history. That would be a lot of work... but totally worth it.
A group trip to Japan would be AMAZING. I would seriously go if I could afford it, I guess it depends -when- you guys would go. But, that just sounds like fun.
Because I also have a sparked interest in learning about the Shikoku more, and I have been debating possibly breeding in the future. It wouldn't hurt to learn more from its country of origin.
Yeah Rui, It's what Jess said. Not only South America, but North America as well. Do you know the census officially reported a few years ago that there are more Puerto Ricans in the State of Florida than in Puerto Rico? If you got to Miami, unless you know Spanish it's near impossible to get a job too.
But the Brazilians come here in droves! They always ask for Spanish Speakers too, which makes the Spanish Speakers mad. Some of the struggle with understanding the Portuguese But I think once you learn Spanish it's easier to learn Portuguese. [ or Italian, or French ] Plus, we not only get Brazillians, but people from Venezuela, Chile, Argentina plus places like Mexico, Dominican Republic, etc. All of them come here to buy electronics [ plus, we're close to Disney ]
That aside, I think a group trip to Japan would be pretty cool. But like I said, I'd think it'd have to be at least two or three years down the line. I know money is tight for everyone, & it's not exactly a cheap trip. We need to SAVE! lol
Spanish and Portuguese are much more different than what is commonly assumed. Even around here. There are some people here that think you just need to say the words with a few different letters and that always blows up in their faces, hehehe. There are what we call "falsos amigos"(literally false friends), words than are spelled exactly the same and said in a pretty close way, but have totally different meanings. As an example, take the word "rato". In Portuguese it means "mouse", in Spanish (castellano), it means "a bit". Or "oficina", in Portuguese it is a car repair garage and in Castellano it is an office. There are many more like these. According to a study made here by some historians an linguists modern Portuguese and especially the Lisbon accent are supposedly an invention that dates back a few centuries to be sort of a code so that Spanish spies couldn't understand what was said in the court. It seems to have been extremely effective, because even today Spanish people have a real problem understanding Portuguese. I work directly with Spanish people and they really can't understand almost anything.
I thought most of South America was Portugese-speaking. I chat with a guy online who lives in Brazil, and he introduced me to an awesome Brazilian band called CPM 22. Personally, it doesn't sound much like Spanish to me.
My father, who was "imported" from Columbia at the age of 11 years, lol, never taught me Spanish. I picked up a bit and was able to understand and speak basic convo back on my own though (growing up around family/friend parties and relatives who visited). Eventually though, I just "forgot" what I did know. I tried learning Spanish in college...took a course. It didn't suit me very well, as they taught Spain-spanish which is very different from what I actually needed to learn...Columbian-spanish and Mexican-spanish. I kinda lost interest, but someday I'm sure it will "come back" and I'll be able to speak with some fluency,
Right now my languages are English and German - I do not speak it fluently, but I know enough to where I could actually survive easily in a German-only speaking countryside. I thought it would be difficult to learn and to some degree, yes although I sometimes have trouble grammatically (but I have problems with that in English as well Shikoku (Breeding) Profiles
Heidi, this is what I would like to do. I want to collect as much available information on each individual that I can. First, I'm going to compile all the info in a book. Then eventually replicate that information on the internet (I believe Brad will be working on a program for this). I plan on obtaining profiles on all Shikoku...most importantly whose in the pedigree but also littermates and half littermates of those dogs as well. Even if those dogs weren't or aren't going to be used for breeding. As it is possible some gentics may be expressed in the littermate, but remain "invisible" or "hidden" in the genetic make up for the brother or sister that is actually been use or going to be used for breeding. So every dog is important. This is gonna be one heck of an adventure, lol.
Breeding
I keep going over and over and over with my breeding program...then I always end up with so many dogs, lol. Though taking care of a number of dogs is very easy (trust me, I've taken care of 40-60 dogs, just me and the boss). The individual time spent is not, there is just not enough time to really build a good relationship. I could probably, realistically manage 8-10 dogs on my own (Brad, I too can have my own mushing team!). And even that is pushing it for one person (time wise). Spacing them out a bit with age will help. Ideally, I do not want anymore then 8 dogs of my own (watch me end up with 15, lol). The others will need to be "assigned" homes. They will still be able to contribute to the breeding program without sacificing a bond with another.
In best interests to the dogs...forming a "Breeding Circle" would be a grand idea. Everyone of course uses their kennel names for breeding, we will all have a kind of standard for maintaining the breed. Yet, no breeder is the same...we will have certain perferences that we like to see in our dogs. Which is good, it'll all balance out, so long as it is not extreme to change type. We will all be breeding from the same stock anyways with such limited bloodlines.
Contributing to the breeding program without being responsible for breeding:
- Co-ownerships can be kind of "touchy", it depends on who is involved. I do not really recommend it, but it is possible for things to turn out "just fine". Be careful though. I see co-ownership as a way for breeders to have a dog in a happy home (one on one time with the human) that will contribute to future breedings. For owners this is good if you really want a dog, can afford the upkeep but just don't have the money to buy a dog. Basically in exchange for the breeder being able to use this dog for breedings later on...you can purchase the animal on a "discounted" price...whatever the two agree on.
- Leases (females) are also another idea, when she is coming into season, the breeder will "barrow" the dog for breeding and whelping until all the pups are old enough to not have mom around anymore. Usually involves a breeder paying for this "barrowment" of the female or maybe even splitting the litter - the breeder could sell all the pups and give half of the money to the owner or, for example,...if there were 4 pups in the litter...the owner can just take 2 pups keep, give away or sell them. <-- this is what is commonly practiced but the two can agree to whatever they wish.
Anyways...<b>Breeding Circle...this will be a team effort for our Shikoku. The future of the breed indeed looks very bright. This makes me happy...
...thank you everybody for just being you. You're all wickedly awesome!
I'm glad to have found a breed where we are all willing to work together.
My father, who was "imported" from Columbia at the age of 11 years, lol, never taught me Spanish. I picked up a bit and was able to understand and speak basic convo on my own though back then (growing up around family/friend parties and relatives who visited). Eventually though, I just "forgot" what I did know. I tried learning Spanish in college...took a course. It didn't suit me very well, as they taught Spain-spanish which is very different from what I actually needed to learn...Columbian-spanish and Mexican-spanish. I kinda lost interest, but someday I'm sure it will "come back" and I'll be able to speak with some fluency,
Right now my languages are English and German - I do not speak it fluently, but I know enough to where I could actually survive easily in a German-only speaking countryside. I thought it would be difficult to learn and to some degree, yes although I sometimes have trouble grammatically (but I have problems with that in English as well Shikoku (Breeding) Profiles
Heidi, this is what I would like to do. I want to collect as much available information on each individual that I can. First, I'm going to compile all the info in a book. Then eventually replicate that information on the internet (I believe Brad will be working on a program for this). I plan on obtaining profiles on all Shikoku...most importantly whose in the pedigree but also littermates and half syblings of those dogs as well. Even if those dogs weren't or aren't going to be used for breeding. As it is possible some gentics may be expressed in the littermate, but remain "invisible" or "hidden" in the genetic make up for the brother or sister that is actually been use or going to be used for breeding. So every dog is important. This is gonna be one heck of an adventure, lol.
Breeding
I keep going over and over and over with my breeding program...then I always end up with so many dogs, lol. Though taking care of a number of dogs is very easy (trust me, I've taken care of 40-60 dogs, just me and the boss). The individual time spent is not, there is just not enough time to really build a good relationship. I could probably, realistically manage 8-10 dogs on my own (Brad, I too can have my own mushing team!). And even that is pushing it for one person (time wise). Spacing them out a bit with age will help. Ideally, I do not want anymore then 8 dogs of my own (watch me end up with 15, lol). The others will need to be "assigned" homes. They will still be able to contribute to the breeding program without sacificing a bond with another.
In best interests to the dogs...forming a "Breeding Circle" would be a grand idea. Everyone of course uses their kennel names for breeding, we will all have a kind of standard for maintaining the breed. Yet, no breeder is the same...we will have certain perferences that we like to see in our dogs. Which is good, it'll all balance out, so long as it is not extreme to change type. We will all be breeding from the same stock anyways with such limited bloodlines.
Contributing to the breeding program without being responsible for breeding:
- Co-ownerships can be kind of "touchy", it depends on who is involved. I do not really recommend it, but it is possible for things to turn out "just fine". Be careful though. I see co-ownership as a way for breeders to have a dog in a happy home (one on one time with the human) that will contribute to future breedings. For owners this is good if you really want a dog, can afford the upkeep but just don't have the money to buy a dog. Basically in exchange for the breeder being able to use this dog for breedings later on...you can purchase the animal on a "discounted" price...whatever the two agree on.
- Leases (females) are also another idea, when she is coming into season, the breeder will "barrow" the dog for breeding and whelping until all the pups are old enough to not have mom around anymore. Usually involves a breeder paying for this "barrowment" of the female or maybe even splitting the litter - the breeder could sell all the pups and give half of the money to the owner or, for example,...if there were 4 pups in the litter...the owner can just take 2 pups keep, give away or sell them. <-- this is what is commonly practiced but the two can agree to whatever they wish.
Anyways...<b>Breeding Circle...this will be a team effort for our Shikoku. The future of the breed indeed looks very bright. This makes me happy...
...thank you everybody for just being you. You're all wickedly awesome!
I'm glad to have found a breed where we are all willing to work together.
There's also fostering, which is very similar to leasing, but the breeder legally owns the dog (usually female, but sometimes males are fostered too). The breeder keeps the female for breeding and whelping, then she returns to the foster home when the pups are old enough to be without her. The breeder is responsible for the litter, and for finding homes for them. The foster does not get paid for the litter or have any rights to the pups.
I'm pretty excited too! It's so awesome to think we can all be a part of this, and work cooperatively to make the breed the best we can. That's not something you get to see or experience often in the breeding world.
I was thinking the other day, (note that these were just wandering thoughts, not necessarily plausible ideas) that it might be beneficial to get OFA/CERF results from an entire litter to see if you're breeding healthy dogs. The breeder could ask the purchasers of their pet stock to get xrays or whatever test done, and reimburse them for doing the test and sending the results.
Linebreeding: wouldn't careful use of this (not inbreedings) be of benefit in keeping the traits you know are in your pedigrees vs frequent introduction of unknowns from imports? I didn't think they even do CERF/OFA on Japanese imports (**edit-as in before you take over ownership, in that this testing is not standard practice in Japan)? Perhaps the shikoku breeding programmes in the states are just not at the point yet where the lines are developed enough to consistently and reliably produce the standard without the use of imports? What are your thoughts basically about linebreeding?
Generally speaking, they don't as far as I know regarding shibas and direct imports from Japan. This is what I was told but if anyone else has actually been to Japan and directly negotiated the purchase of breeding stock I would be very interested to hear your take. It has to do with honor. I guess certain kennels in Japan figure that if the dog is already proven in Nippo shows or has produced winning pups of sound body/mind, any defects in structure would have already shown up in the litters or the dog would develop lameness (weakness of character I guess). Also, any physical weaknesses would be culled in the conditioning the dogs undergo. Therefore, if it moves soundly after all the miles and miles of conditioning than it's hips/patellas must be fine (I don't agree, I think they should be xrayed to rule out low grade dysplasias). Consequesntly, if the gentleman you are negotiating with through a broker for a breeding dog or pup that you have never touched, maybe seen a picture of, costing a years' salary, offers you his word that the dog is sound, thinks you doubt his honor by implying his programme and dogs are inferior because you requested a gaurentee and OFA/CERF testing, than say goodbye to your chances of getting that amazing dog or doing further buisness. And, as we know, you can get burned on a puppy you have spent thousands on and it would really stink if you had to eat it but I'm sure that's the risk in breeding and using imports. I really don't know if JKC requires OFA/CERF testing.
While testing is not done in Japan, and breeders there would likely be offended if you asked them to do so, I have never heard of a Japanese breeder requiring you not to test their stock. Unless the breeder specifically required you to sign a contract stating that you would not test your dog, there's no reason why you can't. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it should be a necessity to test your dogs if you wish to breed them, since you can have a subclinical problem, or the health issue is one that does not show up until later in life. I think it's critical to be able to match up mating pairs in the right fashion (eg if your male has hips rated Fair, he should only be bred to females with hips rated Good).
Yes, I agree the testing should be done, but I don't think it's something the origional breeders of the adult imports you buy would do for you (maybe nowadays in Japan that's changing a little) like often happens here in the states, as in, you must do it on your own time/dollar after you already have the dog.
It's kinda "risky" to be honest on importing dogs from Japan. I just have faith in the Japanese breeder that has been helping me out. He seems to be very knowledgeable and very active within his breed. Practice of OFA seems to be uncommon, at least with native Japanese dogs. It'd be more commonly practiced with foreign dogs, especially those who have a history of problems with hips.
There is a "trick" I learned from a seminar, you can tell if it is obvious that the dog might have or does have a problem. So there are some physical testing one can do without an x-ray.
So maybe Japanese breeders have the "eye" for this kind of stuff? It's not always clear to the novice, but when you have dealt with dogs for so long, especially "your" breed, you develope a kind of sense for what is "correct" and what is "incorrect" just by looking at the dog.
Anyways...we don't have quit enough bloodlines just yet. It'll take some years before we can establish one. Tis a work in progress. Indeed, problems may occur. It has happened many times, it's not uncommon. The more you do it, the more you are likely to come across it. If, for some reason, the puppy or adult inported has a hip issue or maybe doesn't have the temperment or structure suited for breeding it really sucks. I've heard of breeders spending thousands of dollars, say $3,000 on an import. The dog turns out to have structure issues that weren't suited for breeding, however, these issues weren't going to prevent that dog from being a good pet. So these breeders would end up selling that dog into a pet home for maybe $800 or less. Or perhaps just end up giving that dog to a family member or friend. This is a risk that breeders may choose to take.
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"I was thinking the other day, (note that these were just wandering thoughts, not necessarily plausible ideas) that it might be beneficial to get OFA/CERF results from an entire litter to see if you're breeding healthy dogs. The breeder could ask the purchasers of their pet stock to get xrays or whatever test done, and reimburse them for doing the test and sending the results." - Nekopan
I'm going to have the same requirement similar to the breeder of my Malinois. Every puppy buyer has to sign a contract when purchasing a puppy. In that contract will state that the owner MUST do x-ray hips/elbows when the dog is of age (pre-lims no earlier then 21 months will be acceptable). This IS the RESPONSIBLITY of the dog owner. For Shikoku patella will be included. Anything else is recommended but not manditory. If the potiental owner it not willing to agree to these terms and conditions, she/he does not need to purchase a puppy from me.
Just to resurrect an old thread and tack on a question...
I just posted in another thread about the lack of testing done on breeding dogs here in Japan. Just curious as to what everyone's opinions are on what you feel are the 'must have' tests. What tests you should definitely have done, what tests would be 'nice' to have done etc.
That way I can do some research and see if all the tests are available over here, and if they aren't, try to help make them available here. Also, a lot of the breeders over here that I talk to about testing are totally clueless as to what the tests are, and which ones are really necessary. Hopefully a list of the most important ones can act as a resource for me when talking with them, and also for anyone else interested in testing their dogs or importing from Japan.
To some degree I think the tests would be breed dependent. For example, there are some Shiba lines here in the US where luxating patella is becoming very common. So for Shibas I would say screening patellas is a must whereas with Akitas it would be nice, but not as high a priority as say hips or eyes. I know that doesn't answer your question (I'll leave that to those who are more educated on that stuff than I am), but I thought I'd throw it out there.
I was reading one a breeder's website once about incentives for doing certain things with the dogs, and one was that they'd get a certain amount of the purchase price back if they did OFA, CERF, and so on. The dogs were priced a little high to begin with (compared to other breeders in the same breed and area), then you got money back for neutering, getting certain titles, different tests, completeing obedience classes, etc. I think it's a good idea. If you're going to require them to get testing done anyway, then it gives you more of a guarantee if you include the cost of testing in the price of the puppy, then sort of reimburse the owner later. In the long run, it ends up costing the owner the same amount of money, but it's easier to enforce for the breeder.
I read somewhere that shibas used to have hip problems and dog aggression more often when they were first being imported, but it was eventually bred down to an acceptable level.
At this point in the shiba history in the United States, if you were a quality breeder breeding with American bred dogs of Japanese import descent 3-4 generations back, you should not expect, or consider it routine, to produce dogs with hip, patella or eye problems, or dentition issues. If the breedings are thoughtfully planned and researched, and the pups are suberbly reared, neither should we expect, at this point, to have shibas that are inherently aggressive. At this point, while there is still quite a noticable difference in the dogs coming from different areas of the states/different breeders, the majority of shibas should have good hips, good patellas, good teeth and steady minds. If not able to at this point, the breeder isn't doing something right if they can't accurately predict these things in their breedings.
"the majority of shibas should have good hips, good patellas, good teeth and steady minds"
this isn't happening though in the short time period since the shiba was brought to the country and bred (1970's, right?), and IF I were ever planning (I'm so not!) to get a shiba pup, I would utterly demand tests on both sire and dam of my prospective pup for all the above. Its a disgusting realization that this breed is rapidly becoming overbred and undertested. I have experienced issue with all of the above in a negative context in the relatively short time I've been involved in shiba breed rescue. My own Tsuki has visibly bad hips, grade 1 LP and a genetic tooth disorder that causes them to migrate and dislodge with little trauma. Its awful, she's only just turned one in June and she has to try to live her life with these completely PREVENTABLE issues! God bless her spirit, you wouldn't know she wasn't healthy unless you cracked open her mouth and gave her a physical. And sound mind! Well... I've learned a lot the hard way thanks to improperly reared, unsocialized dogs.
I just know that money speaks a lot louder than integrity to most people, and while tragic, I think there are more profiteers than there are reputable breeders for any breed in the world today. Maybe the rescue dogs gave me the negative outlook, maybe personal interaction with an awful breeder, I don't know. I can only hope learning and sharing environments like this forum can help prevent more back yard breedings and poor breeder selections to help keep the sound mind and structure of all Nihon Ken intact.
I guess I should have added "in an ideal world" or "this is how I would demand/expect it". It's sad to ponder where the shiba could be, vs where people have actually taken it as a breed, and all the others as well.
I should have demanded this when I got Beebe, but I don't want to think about what would have happened to her if someone else took her know knowing the problems she ended up with (allergies, mange, immune deficiency, behavior problems..)
I would [and do] test for thyroid, hips, knees, and elbows on all Nihonken. Just because a genetic issues doesn't happen in a breed very often doesn't mean it never happens and if you are testing for breeding purposes you should only breed the best of the best so it would be wise to test for all of these on all Nihonken.
It is definitely way easier in the long run to test before breeding the dog, rather than find out after you've produced a few litters that, oops, that dog has health issues and now there are a dozen dogs out there that are carrying on those genes.
Hey Rui!, I studied a few of the Romance languages and I always thought Portuguese was the black sheep of the family. It sounded so different from the rest of them. I always thought it is sounded Russian/Eastern Europeanish.
I'm pretty sure all of those can be sent out. Hips, knees, and elbows are all done by OFA in the states (I believe) which requires sending them an x-ray (which you may even be able to do electronically these days, just a guess). I know for sure blood for a thyroid test can be sent out (it was suggested to me when I had Joey tested). That would have to be FedEx'ed though, so it will add to the cost.
Comments
Because I also have a sparked interest in learning about the Shikoku more, and I have been debating possibly breeding in the future. It wouldn't hurt to learn more from its country of origin.
But the Brazilians come here in droves! They always ask for Spanish Speakers too, which makes the Spanish Speakers mad. Some of the struggle with understanding the Portuguese
That aside, I think a group trip to Japan would be pretty cool. But like I said, I'd think it'd have to be at least two or three years down the line. I know money is tight for everyone, & it's not exactly a cheap trip.
~
There are what we call "falsos amigos"(literally false friends), words than are spelled exactly the same and said in a pretty close way, but have totally different meanings.
As an example, take the word "rato". In Portuguese it means "mouse", in Spanish (castellano), it means "a bit". Or "oficina", in Portuguese it is a car repair garage and in Castellano it is an office. There are many more like these.
According to a study made here by some historians an linguists modern Portuguese and especially the Lisbon accent are supposedly an invention that dates back a few centuries to be sort of a code so that Spanish spies couldn't understand what was said in the court. It seems to have been extremely effective, because even today Spanish people have a real problem understanding Portuguese. I work directly with Spanish people and they really can't understand almost anything.
My father, who was "imported" from Columbia at the age of 11 years, lol, never taught me Spanish. I picked up a bit and was able to understand and speak basic convo back on my own though (growing up around family/friend parties and relatives who visited). Eventually though, I just "forgot" what I did know. I tried learning Spanish in college...took a course. It didn't suit me very well, as they taught Spain-spanish which is very different from what I actually needed to learn...Columbian-spanish and Mexican-spanish. I kinda lost interest, but someday I'm sure it will "come back" and I'll be able to speak with some fluency,
Right now my languages are English and German - I do not speak it fluently, but I know enough to where I could actually survive easily in a German-only speaking countryside. I thought it would be difficult to learn and to some degree, yes although I sometimes have trouble grammatically (but I have problems with that in English as well Shikoku (Breeding) Profiles
Heidi, this is what I would like to do. I want to collect as much available information on each individual that I can. First, I'm going to compile all the info in a book. Then eventually replicate that information on the internet (I believe Brad will be working on a program for this). I plan on obtaining profiles on all Shikoku...most importantly whose in the pedigree but also littermates and half littermates of those dogs as well. Even if those dogs weren't or aren't going to be used for breeding. As it is possible some gentics may be expressed in the littermate, but remain "invisible" or "hidden" in the genetic make up for the brother or sister that is actually been use or going to be used for breeding. So every dog is important. This is gonna be one heck of an adventure, lol.
Breeding
I keep going over and over and over with my breeding program...then I always end up with so many dogs, lol. Though taking care of a number of dogs is very easy (trust me, I've taken care of 40-60 dogs, just me and the boss). The individual time spent is not, there is just not enough time to really build a good relationship. I could probably, realistically manage 8-10 dogs on my own (Brad, I too can have my own mushing team!). And even that is pushing it for one person (time wise). Spacing them out a bit with age will help. Ideally, I do not want anymore then 8 dogs of my own (watch me end up with 15, lol). The others will need to be "assigned" homes. They will still be able to contribute to the breeding program without sacificing a bond with another.
In best interests to the dogs...forming a "Breeding Circle" would be a grand idea. Everyone of course uses their kennel names for breeding, we will all have a kind of standard for maintaining the breed. Yet, no breeder is the same...we will have certain perferences that we like to see in our dogs. Which is good, it'll all balance out, so long as it is not extreme to change type. We will all be breeding from the same stock anyways with such limited bloodlines.
Contributing to the breeding program without being responsible for breeding:
- Co-ownerships can be kind of "touchy", it depends on who is involved. I do not really recommend it, but it is possible for things to turn out "just fine". Be careful though.
I see co-ownership as a way for breeders to have a dog in a happy home (one on one time with the human) that will contribute to future breedings. For owners this is good if you really want a dog, can afford the upkeep but just don't have the money to buy a dog. Basically in exchange for the breeder being able to use this dog for breedings later on...you can purchase the animal on a "discounted" price...whatever the two agree on.
- Leases (females) are also another idea, when she is coming into season, the breeder will "barrow" the dog for breeding and whelping until all the pups are old enough to not have mom around anymore. Usually involves a breeder paying for this "barrowment" of the female or maybe even splitting the litter - the breeder could sell all the pups and give half of the money to the owner or, for example,...if there were 4 pups in the litter...the owner can just take 2 pups keep, give away or sell them. <-- this is what is commonly practiced but the two can agree to whatever they wish.
Anyways...<b>Breeding Circle...this will be a team effort for our Shikoku. The future of the breed indeed looks very bright. This makes me happy...
...thank you everybody for just being you. You're all wickedly awesome!
I'm glad to have found a breed where we are all willing to work together.
My father, who was "imported" from Columbia at the age of 11 years, lol, never taught me Spanish. I picked up a bit and was able to understand and speak basic convo on my own though back then (growing up around family/friend parties and relatives who visited). Eventually though, I just "forgot" what I did know. I tried learning Spanish in college...took a course. It didn't suit me very well, as they taught Spain-spanish which is very different from what I actually needed to learn...Columbian-spanish and Mexican-spanish. I kinda lost interest, but someday I'm sure it will "come back" and I'll be able to speak with some fluency,
Right now my languages are English and German - I do not speak it fluently, but I know enough to where I could actually survive easily in a German-only speaking countryside. I thought it would be difficult to learn and to some degree, yes although I sometimes have trouble grammatically (but I have problems with that in English as well Shikoku (Breeding) Profiles
Heidi, this is what I would like to do. I want to collect as much available information on each individual that I can. First, I'm going to compile all the info in a book. Then eventually replicate that information on the internet (I believe Brad will be working on a program for this). I plan on obtaining profiles on all Shikoku...most importantly whose in the pedigree but also littermates and half syblings of those dogs as well. Even if those dogs weren't or aren't going to be used for breeding. As it is possible some gentics may be expressed in the littermate, but remain "invisible" or "hidden" in the genetic make up for the brother or sister that is actually been use or going to be used for breeding. So every dog is important. This is gonna be one heck of an adventure, lol.
Breeding
I keep going over and over and over with my breeding program...then I always end up with so many dogs, lol. Though taking care of a number of dogs is very easy (trust me, I've taken care of 40-60 dogs, just me and the boss). The individual time spent is not, there is just not enough time to really build a good relationship. I could probably, realistically manage 8-10 dogs on my own (Brad, I too can have my own mushing team!). And even that is pushing it for one person (time wise). Spacing them out a bit with age will help. Ideally, I do not want anymore then 8 dogs of my own (watch me end up with 15, lol). The others will need to be "assigned" homes. They will still be able to contribute to the breeding program without sacificing a bond with another.
In best interests to the dogs...forming a "Breeding Circle" would be a grand idea. Everyone of course uses their kennel names for breeding, we will all have a kind of standard for maintaining the breed. Yet, no breeder is the same...we will have certain perferences that we like to see in our dogs. Which is good, it'll all balance out, so long as it is not extreme to change type. We will all be breeding from the same stock anyways with such limited bloodlines.
Contributing to the breeding program without being responsible for breeding:
- Co-ownerships can be kind of "touchy", it depends on who is involved. I do not really recommend it, but it is possible for things to turn out "just fine". Be careful though.
I see co-ownership as a way for breeders to have a dog in a happy home (one on one time with the human) that will contribute to future breedings. For owners this is good if you really want a dog, can afford the upkeep but just don't have the money to buy a dog. Basically in exchange for the breeder being able to use this dog for breedings later on...you can purchase the animal on a "discounted" price...whatever the two agree on.
- Leases (females) are also another idea, when she is coming into season, the breeder will "barrow" the dog for breeding and whelping until all the pups are old enough to not have mom around anymore. Usually involves a breeder paying for this "barrowment" of the female or maybe even splitting the litter - the breeder could sell all the pups and give half of the money to the owner or, for example,...if there were 4 pups in the litter...the owner can just take 2 pups keep, give away or sell them. <-- this is what is commonly practiced but the two can agree to whatever they wish.
Anyways...<b>Breeding Circle...this will be a team effort for our Shikoku. The future of the breed indeed looks very bright. This makes me happy...
...thank you everybody for just being you. You're all wickedly awesome!
I'm glad to have found a breed where we are all willing to work together.
I'm pretty excited too! It's so awesome to think we can all be a part of this, and work cooperatively to make the breed the best we can. That's not something you get to see or experience often in the breeding world.
This guy imported at least 4 Shibas from Japan and did OFA and CERF on them all. Corina imported Kei-kun from Japan, and she will be doing hips, elbows, patellas and CERF on him. http://www.nihonken.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1931
I think considering Ahi has LP we should definitely be checking patellas.
There is a "trick" I learned from a seminar, you can tell if it is obvious that the dog might have or does have a problem. So there are some physical testing one can do without an x-ray.
So maybe Japanese breeders have the "eye" for this kind of stuff? It's not always clear to the novice, but when you have dealt with dogs for so long, especially "your" breed, you develope a kind of sense for what is "correct" and what is "incorrect" just by looking at the dog.
Anyways...we don't have quit enough bloodlines just yet. It'll take some years before we can establish one. Tis a work in progress. Indeed, problems may occur. It has happened many times, it's not uncommon. The more you do it, the more you are likely to come across it. If, for some reason, the puppy or adult inported has a hip issue or maybe doesn't have the temperment or structure suited for breeding it really sucks. I've heard of breeders spending thousands of dollars, say $3,000 on an import. The dog turns out to have structure issues that weren't suited for breeding, however, these issues weren't going to prevent that dog from being a good pet. So these breeders would end up selling that dog into a pet home for maybe $800 or less. Or perhaps just end up giving that dog to a family member or friend. This is a risk that breeders may choose to take.
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"I was thinking the other day, (note that these were just wandering thoughts, not necessarily plausible ideas) that it might be beneficial to get OFA/CERF results from an entire litter to see if you're breeding healthy dogs. The breeder could ask the purchasers of their pet stock to get xrays or whatever test done, and reimburse them for doing the test and sending the results." - Nekopan
I'm going to have the same requirement similar to the breeder of my Malinois. Every puppy buyer has to sign a contract when purchasing a puppy. In that contract will state that the owner MUST do x-ray hips/elbows when the dog is of age (pre-lims no earlier then 21 months will be acceptable). This IS the RESPONSIBLITY of the dog owner. For Shikoku patella will be included. Anything else is recommended but not manditory. If the potiental owner it not willing to agree to these terms and conditions, she/he does not need to purchase a puppy from me.
I just posted in another thread about the lack of testing done on breeding dogs here in Japan. Just curious as to what everyone's opinions are on what you feel are the 'must have' tests. What tests you should definitely have done, what tests would be 'nice' to have done etc.
That way I can do some research and see if all the tests are available over here, and if they aren't, try to help make them available here. Also, a lot of the breeders over here that I talk to about testing are totally clueless as to what the tests are, and which ones are really necessary. Hopefully a list of the most important ones can act as a resource for me when talking with them, and also for anyone else interested in testing their dogs or importing from Japan.
Tests on eyes = nice.
That was a guess
I second what Dave said
I read somewhere that shibas used to have hip problems and dog aggression more often when they were first being imported, but it was eventually bred down to an acceptable level.
this isn't happening though in the short time period since the shiba was brought to the country and bred (1970's, right?), and IF I were ever planning (I'm so not!) to get a shiba pup, I would utterly demand tests on both sire and dam of my prospective pup for all the above. Its a disgusting realization that this breed is rapidly becoming overbred and undertested. I have experienced issue with all of the above in a negative context in the relatively short time I've been involved in shiba breed rescue. My own Tsuki has visibly bad hips, grade 1 LP and a genetic tooth disorder that causes them to migrate and dislodge with little trauma. Its awful, she's only just turned one in June and she has to try to live her life with these completely PREVENTABLE issues! God bless her spirit, you wouldn't know she wasn't healthy unless you cracked open her mouth and gave her a physical.
And sound mind! Well... I've learned a lot the hard way thanks to improperly reared, unsocialized dogs.
I just know that money speaks a lot louder than integrity to most people, and while tragic, I think there are more profiteers than there are reputable breeders for any breed in the world today. Maybe the rescue dogs gave me the negative outlook, maybe personal interaction with an awful breeder, I don't know. I can only hope learning and sharing environments like this forum can help prevent more back yard breedings and poor breeder selections to help keep the sound mind and structure of all Nihon Ken intact.
I should have demanded this when I got Beebe, but I don't want to think about what would have happened to her if someone else took her know knowing the problems she ended up with (allergies, mange, immune deficiency, behavior problems..)
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Hey Rui!, I studied a few of the Romance languages and I always thought Portuguese was the black sheep of the family. It sounded so different from the rest of them. I always thought it is sounded Russian/Eastern Europeanish.
Hips
Knees
Elbows
Thyroid
possibly eyes
Adding on to that the usual yearly physicals, heart/blood and all that I'm assuming.
Guess I'll see about what's available here now. Thyroid might be a tricky one.