NIko: Dog Aggression or Scared?

Comments

• KFontaine04

  November 2008 edited November -1

  Check out the threads on dog reactiveness...I don't think he is agressive at all, I think he is reacting to other dogs. LJ has had the same issues with Jazz and she has posted A LOT of helpful information on the forum regarding how she handled (and is still handling) Jazz's issues. I think it would help you a lot!
• tsukitsune

  November 2008 edited November 2008

  its a tough thing to say over the internet, but I can say that aggression gets labeled very quickly and very inaccurately, especially with the shiba. My Kitsune was said to be aggressive, he is not - he was a resource guarder and won't back down from a fight (which with the wrong kind of dog could be a bad combo) but he is just fine with some trust and redirection work.
  
  I'm learning a great deal about the unknown dog reaction triggers from my current foster Hanzo. He seems to be fine one minute than snaps the next. Sometimes he'll give warnings and sometimes he won't. We're in the process of determining of its food or gender related, or due to his being a stray or due to the reason he lost his leg and got his scars (possible dog fight?). Its not easy trying to tailor a behavior rehab with an older shiba with a lot of historical unknowns!
  
  Your best bet to help figure out what Niko is trying to say is hiring a certified behaviorist. But since the holidays are fast approaching and this is certainly not an overnight fix, perhaps you can consider picking up some Rescue Remedy for Pets or DAP for the trip and bring a big crate or pen or gate to section him off if things get to be too hectic for him.
  Definitely plan on reintroducing them outside on neutral turf - it never hurts. And see if they might play together out side in a fenced in tennis court or something before bringing them home - or if you can't do that, try walking them next to one another outside before bringing them inside.
  
  Its good that he hides behind you in a way, at least he knows you will protect him. You can use this to help redirect him into a sit-stay if he starts to get reactive to calm him down and try introductions again once he is calm.
  
  LJ can chime in on Jazz's reactiveness and I think Dave tackled Joey's leash excitement in a very useful way for you too.
  
  Good luck!
• Romi

  November 2008 edited November -1

  When you say your neighbor brings out her female cocker spaniel and he plays with her...are they off lead? I ask this because some dogs are fine with other dogs off-lead, but show reactiveness on-lead. What do you mean by Niko being "rude" to the Am. Bulldog puppy? Was he on-lead or off-lead when meeting the Am. Bulldog puppy? How close do the other dogs get when you notice Niko start to whine? When Niko whines when he see's other dogs - you say that it seems like he wants to play with them...what part of his body language makes you think that? Is his tail wagging? Is he pulling you toward the other dog? Or is he pacing?
  
  I know it's very hard to explain dog behavior through words - it may be your best bet to hire a behaviorist to come do a home consult and give you proper training techniques to work on with Niko.
• ljowen123

  November 2008 edited November -1

  These are the two threads about reactiveness/aggressiveness:
  http://www.nihonken.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2373&page=1#Item_15
  http://www.nihonken.org/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2409&page=1#Item_14
  
  Excellent questions, Romi! Sometimes we misinterpret what our dogs are doing and that's where the behaviourist can step in - I know you've had great success with Ninja. That's one of the reasons why I've decided to work with a behaviourist. The changes wrought in Ninja have been amazing.
• BradA1878

  November 2008 edited November -1

  I have noticed, from my experience with dogs (especially with Nihonken), that:
  
  aggression = fear
  
  Always.
  
  ----
• ILuvMy2Shibas

  November 2008 edited November -1

  Our dogs always have to be on leads due to the property rules of the townhouses we live in, so when he sees daisy the cocker spaniel he runs over her and sniffs her, everything is fine, but when Sarah comes out the am. bulldog she wants to sniff him, and it seems to me if he makes the first move everything is fine, and if the other dog is calm everything is fine, sarah is very active and wants to play and sniff immediately and i think that might stress him out. but with Daisy she lets him sniff and inspect and she just sits there or afte he has sniffed her for a few minutes she gets up sniffs him, and then they kinda play, but not like him and the puppy would play.
  
  
  When Niko wines, his "curl" is wagging, and he seems really excited to see them,he also is jumping but then if they get close he's snarling and growling and hiding, behind me!
• dlroberts

  November 2008 edited November -1

  I would like to point out the the crying may not be excitement, but stress. He may be telling you from a distance that he's uncomfortable and by bringing him closer you are heightening his discomfort which leads to rude behavior. I think you need to be open to the possibility that you may have to keep him separated at your family's house over the holiday. Don't expect for it to be necessary, but plan to be able to handle it in case it is. It wouldn't be fair to any of the 4 dogs if you keep the reactive one in a situation where he's uncomfortable. It will make everybody miserable.
  
  That's a bandaid that may work in the short term, but likely won't fix the problem in the long term. Your best bet is probably to hire a professional that can advise you on what is best for you specific situation. If you are determined to work through this on your own, one approach is to work on boundary training. Find the minimum distance at which he becomes stressed/excited when approaching another dog, and being doing basic obedience with him a foot or two out side that. The point of the training it to teach him to focus on you before he reaches a high state of arousal. Over time, you will probably be able to reduce that distance a little bit at a time, and eventually (think months or years of work) be able to have him remain calm and focused around other dogs without being reactive.
• CrimsonO2

  November 2008 edited November -1

  The one thing I'm also failing to see in your description is the energy level of the "other" dogs Niko is encountering. Are they aloof? are they curious? are they intense? All these things can happen in a matter of seconds and vary depending on distance from dog to dog. While Niko may cry when the other dog is far away to signify his curiosity, it may change quickly once he gets exactly what he wants and while the "other dog" from far away looked aloof, is quite intense up close.
  
  As much as you watch your own dog, just as intently watch the "other" dog's energy level as well. The one thing I've learned from reading and from the other members around here is that Nihonken are hypersensitively reactive (I dunno if that's a word, but I'm TM'ing it if it isn't .
  
  Small things affect them greatly.
  
  Jesse
• ILuvMy2Shibas

  November 2008 edited November -1

  Niko sees everything, he can see a dog coming a mile away. His tail will be waging, and he seems as though he wants to play, with Daisy he is fine, because she is calm, but with sarah who is very active and jumping he does not like that.
  
  
  He plays with Guinness all day long, but when he is done he has had enough, but he has never been aggressive with Guinness.
  
  He was attacked a few months ago by two boston terriers who he growls at all the time. But i can't blame him for that, he came to me with alot of be haviors that he has over come, i just want him to be come more socialized and i do realize it is not going to happen over night. I just want him to be happy!
• ILuvMy2Shibas

  November 2008 edited November -1

  So my fiance and i took the boys to the pet store last night, and it went really well, Niko as started to come out of his shell we, let people know that his is scared and they understand, he did real well until a bull dog came around the corner....but the first dog we seen when we walked in the store was a dog that look like Spud Mckenzie(do you all remember him) he was so cute, but the owner told us not to come near him, because he was really dog agressive!!!!
  
  and of course we got all the questions what are they??? Is that a husky??? is that a german shepherd puppy???? refering to guinness because when you can't see his tail his markings look alot like a german shepherd puppy. what were they bred for??? are they a mix breed???
• tsukitsune

  November 2008 edited November -1

  is it possible that he is trying to correct Sarah and not necessarily be aggressive towards her? Sometimes older dogs try to correct overly hyper pups.
  
  Glad the pet store visit went ok!
• ILuvMy2Shibas

  November 2008 edited November -1

  haha maybe i never thought about that!!! maybe!!!!!
  
  
  me too!!!
• ILuvMy2Shibas

  December 2008 edited November -1

  Well i have just returned after a weekend at my parent house with their two shiba inu's and i'm proud to saw after some growling and bearing of teeth, that the weekend went good, i was really nervous about how NIko was going to react to the two other dogs, he was just fine, at first he was growling and snarling but he was excellent, he got along with everyone, and it was nice to see him finally interact with other dogs!!!
  
  We even took him down to see my friends goldendoodle, and he was happy to play with him!!!!!
  
  We only had two small problems, both of which were over bones they were chewing on, my dads older shiba went into niko's crate and took his bone out, and it started a war....my dads dog did get bite, and there was a little blood, but honestly i couldn't tell you which shiba bit him because the puppies and niko were all involved in the fight over the bone. The second, didn't get too far, we ended up taking all the bones away from all four of the dogs, and then everything was fine!!!
  
  6 people in a house and 4 dogs, crazy times!!!
• dlroberts

  December 2008 edited November -1

  Glad to hear things went so well! Taking the bones away was absolutely the right thing to do. Bones are usually very high valued items for dogs. When I have dog guests in my house (and also when I introduced a new pack member) I picked up all high value items like toys. I slowly reintroduced them over the course of a few weeks under carefully supervised conditions. If you take your pups back to your parent's place, you might want to preemptively pickup high value items like I do to help prevent any snarkies. :-)
• ILuvMy2Shibas

  December 2008 edited November -1

  I was very happy everything went as good as it did. We now know what to take away!
• brandon_w

  December 2008 edited November -1

  It sounds like things went great.
  
  Bones really can cause problems. Nemo does not share his bones with anyone, doesn't even like other dogs looking at them. They go away when friends come over.
• ILuvMy2Shibas

  December 2008 edited November -1

  Well we have learned that bones are gold to them, and my dad called last night because his two got into it over a bone, and i told him to give the puppy his bone in his crate so he will learn that is where he can have it, to avoid having conflict!