Breeders

OliversdadOliversdad
edited March 2009 in Shiba Inu (柴犬)
I'm new here but it seems this is a very close knit group. I had no idea when I got my Shiba that I would find the amount of information such as what I've found here.

My puppy came from a breeder in Ok. and was sent here to a local Long Island, NY breeder. I have all the paperwork but was wondering if anyone had heard of the person in OK. The original breeder was Tomma Person in Laverne OK.

Thanks,
Steve
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Comments

  • ljowen123ljowen123
    edited November -1
    Steve - we strive to be a close knit group. It is our desire to be able to provide our knowledge and experience to others that are new to the breed and looking for information. In addition, we find others that can truly understand what we are going through with our pups.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    edited March 2009
    Steve we try to help with providing the best info we can.

    About Oliver's breeder......There is a trend now to send off puppies to others to be sold directly in other locations via website/internet or in another fashion such as a local host in another state but not always through a pet store. It often fools people thinking they are purchasing from a "decent" breeder not a huge kennel when the pups are actually contracted like widgets, shoes or Mary Kay. In this way the base kennel only has to license in one state and do not have to necessarily be inspected outside of their region. They can sell many dogs in several other states without repercussions.

    The breeder of Oliver is a USDA class A dealer. Which is I believe a smaller USDA kennel maybe allowed 90 to 100 dogs to be brokered to other individuals to be sold. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/efoia/downloads/reports/A_cert_holders.txt
    Oklahoma 12122 73-A-1651 Person, Brent And Tomma R R 2 Box 104 Laverne 73848

    You can look at this site too, maybe they can tell you more via a puppy report.
    http://www.petstorecruelty.org/how%20to%20find%20out%20more%20about%20breeders.htm#unlicensedbreeders

    However, that being said it does not mean Oliver won't be a nice pet. You will just need to be diligent in getting him worked through with his shyness.
    Also, I would seriously consider getting a full medical and neutering before he matures further. It will save you a lot of headaches later with other behavior issues that come along with adolescence.

    Snf
  • OliversdadOliversdad
    edited November -1
    Wow...thanks...I'm going to check that site out.
  • OliversdadOliversdad
    edited November -1
    I went to the website and found my puppies breader......apparently they only had one violation since 2003. I guess that's not bad
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    edited November -1
    ANY violation is bad, especially with the USDA because they are holding the dogs to livestock standards. Not pet standards.
  • OliversdadOliversdad
    edited November -1
    It was a records keeping violation, nothing in relation to animals.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    edited March 2009
    Was it posted what the violation was?

    The reality is, nope the issue can not be negated as "not that bad" given the sad fact that it probably means the kennel could not even keep to a very minimum standard. There is also the fact that monitoring is often infrequent and very lenient.

    The Kennel also may no longer have reoccurring violations, as I mentioned earlier, because they now have shipped a load of dogs out of state to warehouse where there are no inspections at other facilities. Diversification has its benefits but probably not for the dogs.

    Snf
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    edited November -1
    The fact that your seven month old puppy has such fear issues is reason enough to not recommend the breeder to anyone in the future. Does that mean that your puppy is in any way less than, or deserves less love and affection? Of course not.
    From the information that you have provided us, a number of red flags go up about your breeder. But all that really means at this point is if you ever decide to get another dog, it would likely be in your best interest to look elsewhere.
  • Darwin67Darwin67
    edited November -1
    Having lived in Oklahoma, all I can say is that there are far more negligent breeders than good breeders in OK. There are very few, if any controls, in that state. Many of these places are are literally in the "sticks"..the phrase, "out of sight out of mind" applies here. Unless you can actually visit an Oklahoma kennel and meet with the breeder and their stock or have a very reputable recommendation for a breeder there, I would probably avoid an Oklahoma kennel at all costs.
  • OliversdadOliversdad
    edited November -1
    Today is Olivers fourth day at home, he is making progress everyday and we already love him very much. He has his fear issues to get over but we're working with him every moment we're home. He's very sweet and friendly to all of us.

    I do have the manifest that shows he was sent from the breeder in Ok straight to the local breeder with two sisters.

    I do appreciate everyones opinion and as a first time buyer I should have looked into this better but when your there and see the little face, nothing else mattered.
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    edited March 2009
    We understand - we get pretty passionate about these pups. Whether the dog came from a responsible breeder, a BYB, a puupy mill, or a pet store - you have him now and by joining this forum, you are doing your best to work with him, train him, and to bring out the best that he could possibly be.
  • OliversdadOliversdad
    edited November -1
    Hi Beth,

    I live in Smithtown...just a stones throw away.....lol. That would be great.....I think I saw something about your meet......keep me in the loop.

    My e-mail is levanti@optonline.net

    Thanks,
    Steve
  • CaliaCalia
    edited November -1
    OK, I'll send you the info about the group, and more about the first meet up date...I'll also give you a couple of links that has information about dog parks, events, and places you can bring your pups. I'll also send you a site that lists training facilities and information about this one really good, positive reinforcement trainer. She is good, but a bit pricey for my taste, but she may be up your alley.
  • shimaurashibalover92shimaurashibalover92
    edited November -1
    awesome, more long island shibas. maybe if we get enough shibas everyone will forget amy fischer and white camaros!
  • CaliaCalia
    edited November -1
    hahaha...Amy FIscher...That's a great one...
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    edited November -1
    Maybe shy Oliver will come out of his shell a little when he meets some other spunky Shibas.

    Good luck with the meet up, I hope he makes a few friends.

    Snf
  • CaliaCalia
    edited March 2009
    Yea I can't wait
  • Darwin67Darwin67
    edited November -1
    I think Oliver is VERY lucky indeed...he ended up with someone who has his well-being at heart!! No matter a dogs start in life, I think' it's the trip that counts and he's headed in the right direction! Now, how about some pics of Oliver??! :)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    edited November -1
    I googled the name and came up with several breeds for sale on netpetfinder by Tomma Person: Pekinese, Cavaliers, etc with ACA and APRI registration (hallmark of a puppy mill op).

    Eh, part of the learning process is getting to know where dogs in the US come from and this is how a lot of people find out about puppy mills, after the fact. Oliver is very lucky to have found a good home, and you are doing your part in learning about how to best meet his needs.
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    edited November -1
    Sake's breeder was a BYB from Oaklahoma. She was also USDA certified with no violations which I thought at the time was A_OK. I found out after (from this forum!) how to really look into a good breeder and I was appalled how many red flags I didn't see...

    I love Sake to death and I wouldn't trade her for the world, but I know how to do my research now for the future!
  • OliversdadOliversdad
    edited March 2009
    Live and learn. Every night we've seen some improvement.....I think seeing another Shiba would do him wonders..or any dog for that matter....Last night as I held him I brought him to a mirror....lol....it was cute to watch him as he saw himself probably for the first time.....

    Fortunately he's not left alone too much, my wife works close to home and checks on him at lunch time and my boys are home by 3pm. When were home the crate is always opened.

    What does "BYB" mean?
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    edited November -1
    Back Yard Breeder...
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited November -1
    Getting Oliver to meet other dogs (soon) is going to be very important. If he doesn't know already, he needs to start learning how to properly interact with other dogs if you want him to be playing happily with other dogs in the future.
  • OliversdadOliversdad
    edited March 2009
    He was kept with other puppies at the breeder....I think he may miss them.

    Here's a pic I took with my phone at the breeder's. I have others in my camera but I need to load them.

    http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j140/monteman1971/Oliver03.jpg
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    edited November -1
    Oliversdad.

    Make sure you switch your comment box to HTML and use the POST TO WEBSITE codes from photobucket so your pictures will show up. There is a "How to post pictures and videos" thread in the Help section located on the tabs on the top of the forum.

    Photobucket

    Oliver is very cute!
  • OliversdadOliversdad
    edited March 2009
    Thanks....I've been trying for the last 20 minutes to make it work....lol

    Trying again

    Photobucket
  • KFontaine04KFontaine04
    edited November -1
    No worries :)
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    Like everyone said, life is a live and learn. You are now able to see first hand what happens when a dog's been cheated of a proper introduction to the world it lives in, so now its your job. But he is one lucky pooch to end up with a family who wants to understand him and wants to help him. That is truly a blessing for your dog! And meeting with other people and their dogs, of all ages, shapes and sizes will teach him lots of doggy social skills.
    Is he neutered yet? Most dog parks/meeting places required neutered animals.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    Also, if you have reading time, I suggest two books to start, both my Patricia McConnell
    1. The Cautious Canine
    2. The Other End of the Leash

    http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/category/dog-training-books
  • CaliaCalia
    edited November -1
    Stephen- Anytime you want my guys to hang out with your pup to help socialize, give me a shout and we'll make plans. Or you can just attend the meet up date if your pups is up to going. by the way, did you get the e-mail I sent you?
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