RAw food diet & treats

shiba2shikokushiba2shikoku
edited March 2009 in Food, Nutrition, & Health
OK, I've started Tsuki and Taro on a raw diet thanks to much advice from this forum and Taro's trainer. I am wondering, though, with a raw diet, does it matter what treats I give them? My Shibas loved greenies and so does Tsuki. Taro is still too young to eat them, but are they an OK treat w/ a raw diet? Any other treat suggestions? What about dehyrated sweet potatoes? I bought a knuckle bone for Tsuki, but after nibbling on it a little, she just buried it. I was concerned that the many racoons we have around would find it, so I took it in. When I gave it to her again, she tried to do the same thing. Thanks!
Felicia

Here she is enjoyng it...
Tsuki and the knuckle bone 2

Tsuki and the knuckle bone

Comments

  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    Hi!
    What type of raw food diet are you giving them? Something premade like Nature's Variety? Something commercial like Honest Kitchen? Or do you do BARF or Prey Model?

    My understanding of BARF and Prey Model raw is that you do not need to give them bones much because their diet is complete with such things and should help them maintain dental health, etc.

    With premade, you will need to supplement with chews to keep their teeth clean. I think any kind of chew they tolerate is just fine. We give ours bully sticks, trachea (freeze dried), tendon (FD), skate tails (like a fish bully stick). For treats, we use dehyrated beef lung, by Waggers: http://www.waggers.com/
    For training, we use Yummy Chummies: http://alaskagift.com/yummychummydogtreatoriginal-3.aspx
    Or Grizzly NuTreats: http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/grsaoilbrnu6.html
    Or zukes mini naturals: http://www.zukes.com/woof/mini-naturals.html

    Other treats are PB/Yogurt filled frozen Kongs, baked or steamed sweet potato/pumpkin... pretty much anything without Wheat, Corn or Soy fillers.
  • shiba2shikokushiba2shikoku
    edited November -1
    Thanx for your help. I wasn't sure if I should stay away from grains even in their treats. I started them on Nature's Variety b/c the pet store near me carries it and they say that NV has their own plants that they use for processing. I'm still trying to feel my way around all the options. It can be a bit confusing.

    Taro's trainer likes Bravo and she pretty much sold me on it. I like the variety available and the fact that some of their products have bone in them, so I don't have to try to remember if they have had their bone lately. Tsuki (BTW, I love your forum name) my Tsuki did not like the chicken necks. I may save them for Taro or throw them into a food processor. She seems to eat chicken that way. I just rotate from one tube to another, beef, rabbit, lamb, buffalo. Tsuki was chewing on that bone for "fun." I may try a smaller one sometime and see if she shows more interest in it. The trainer says they need to chew.

    I'll look for the treats you mentioned. Thanks again for your input!
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    Yes, Nature's Variety has nice products, fully formulated with meats, organ, bones, eggs, fruit and veggies. I love their line of medallions and chubs - we've tried the beef, venison, lamb and rabbit. I don't buy the chicken b/c its cheaper to just get a whole fresh fryer and hack it up for the dogs to have their chicken portions!

    I've not tried Bravo, but I heard great things about them! And Stella and Chewy's line.
    Have you considered raw green tripe? My dogs would die before giving up that crap!I think greentripe.com is on the west coast and hare-today.com is on the east coast, whichever you are located.

    Also, yahoo groups has a lot of raw feeding co-ops set up to get bulk meat/bone/organ cheap by group ordering.
    http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#co-ops

    We've been feeding raw for over a year now, so if you need anything else, just let me know! Have fun!
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    p.s. we need more Tsuki/Taro spam!

    p.p.s. I have a lot of sources listed in my blog posts below when we were starting to dive into prey model/BARF raw and not so much premade (though, I still buy bags of nature's variety when I get BOGO coupons - check out naturesvariety.com/tryit )
    http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2008/07/diets-raw-diet-basics-part-1.html
    http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2008/07/beginning-raw.html
    http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2008/07/raw-success.html
    http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2008/07/raw-update-with-picsvideos.html

    and check out Dogster's Raw Forum! Lots of great info there!
    http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet
  • primitivedogprimitivedog
    edited November -1
    I feed a combination of raw and grain-free kibble from Fromm. I also give my dogs small portions of our dinner - whatever they are interested in, which is usually some fish and rice and veggies. They also get bully sticks from Bravo. There is a company called Plato that makes nice treats and there are many freeze dried varieties, etc. The RMB's can be messy so I try to find them really small or I ask my local butcher if he can cut them down into smaller pieces. I also feed raw chicken necks-- both cats and dogs LOVE those!
  • shiba2shikokushiba2shikoku
    edited November -1
    Twice, Tsuki threw her dinner up w/in minutes of eating it. Is it Ok to let her eat it again if she wants to? YUK!
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    Its definitely OK, a lot of times when we started raw, my shibas would regurge, then go back for it. It doesn't happen too, too often now, but it still happens. :)
  • shiba2shikokushiba2shikoku
    edited November -1
    I'm worried! I have caught Tsuki eating my purple verbena a couple of times. I looked online and saw that some types of verbena can be toxic to dogs, while others are not. She didn't eat plants before when she was on a Nature's Variety Prarie. Is she not getting something in her new raw diet? She has not had diarrhea or stomach issues (besides the throwing up described earlier.) Do I need to add suppliments or something??? What is she needing from plants?
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    My dogs will eat greens, I steam spinach and kale for them and mix with eggs for breakfast sometimes. Maybe giving her some green options would help?

    If you are feeding premade raw (Bravo, Nature's Variety) they are formulated to be complete.
    From Nature's Variety website:
    Is your raw food complete and balanced?
    "Yes, our Nature's Variety Raw Frozen Diets provide complete and balanced nutrition for dogs and cats, all life stages and all breeds. In fact, we are the first and only raw frozen diets that have been scientifically substantiated as complete and balanced for all canine life stages through AAFCO Protocol Feeding Trial. We are currently in the process of passing AAFCO Feeding Trials for all feline life stages as well!"

    From Stella & Chewy's:
    "Our diets provide 100% complete and balanced nutrition for your pet, fully meeting the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for all Life Stages."

    From Bravo!:
    "Bravo Balance® meets AAFCD standards for a 100% complete and balanced nutrition at all life stages."

    If you are feeding any of those, you can take their word for it. Other companies, like Primal, do not make complete claims.
    Or you can do what I did.. read the individual ingredient lists, their nutritional info [vitamin/mineral/etc] and compare them to this spreadsheet:
    http://www.netrophic.com/misc/NewPersonalDogFeedingGuide.xls
    That spreadsheet lists all the nutrients a canine needs from their diet - you just find the values either on the premade raw maker's sites, or nutritiondata.com, plug in your values and there you go - guidelines for a balanced raw diet.

    Maybe find out any nutritional/digestive properties of verbena to try to find out what (if anything ) is lacking. Are you sure she's eating and digesting the verbena?

    I don't really supplement in the form of tablets given, but I do give them raw green tripe (amino acids, digestion health), chicken feet (joint health), fish heads, rabbit ears, fish oil caps and if I cook for them (like the eggs for breakfast thing) I'll add Solid Gold Seameal and yogurt (or cottage cheese) to it.

    It might also be worth your while to see if you can find a holistic vet that practices in your area, to help make sure you have a balanced diet for your pups.
  • shiba2shikokushiba2shikoku
    edited November -1
    Thank you for your input! I will look into the areas you suggested. I have seen her eating the flowers and noticed that there are several stalks where flowers used to be. I've not seen any throw up (other than her immediate regurge mentioned above), so she's keeping whatever she has eaten down.

    I am confused w/ some of the conflicting info I've heard. Taro's trainer says dogs are carnivores and DO NOT need anything other than meat and bone and organs occasionally. So far,I've been feeding Tsuki Bravo raw, beef, buffalo, rabbit, & lamb as well as raw chicken necks (she prefers hers ground up though). That's it, just the meat eater's diet.

    I liked what I read about the Bravo balance, but she does not like it b/c it have fruits and veggies and "dogs/wolves in the wild were never accused of getting into farmer Joe's vegetable garden, only his hen house."

    I'll look more at the properties of verbena as you suggested, good idea. I have a great Natual pet food store, but will look into a holistic vet.

    Thanks again!
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    There is a ton of conflicting info out there for sure, it can get really confusing, and some people (like your trainer) are probably hyper aware of how the pet food industry has manipulated our view on what a dog benefits from, and what it does not benefit from. Look at the labels of the mainstream pet foods, mostly grains and fillers with minimal meat content. The belief is that this type of diet has lead to the increasing number of canine cancers, obesity and neurological issues (epilepsy, etc). Of course, to remedy, we have to search for an alternative, optimal diet for dogs. And how? Look at what their ancestors ate.

    Its my personal opinion that dogs are not wolves, distant decedents yes, but wolves they are not. Neither are they wild african hunting dogs or foxes or tigers or coyotes or lions or jackals... It is my personal opinion that the dogs we have now are probably closer related to village dogs - domesticated scavengers. If you think about a shikoku, from Japan, living amongst villagers, bred to be hunters along side human hunters... what would they probably eat? Rice, fish, grass, seaweed...
    I've seen wolves eat berries and I've seen coyotes survive in garbage dumps. Wolves also eat the entrails of their kill, which is why tripe is such a popular thing to feed with raw - you are essentially feeding digested greens that a cow had eaten, which are then easier for the dog to digest and utilize. I think thats why Natures Variety and all other balanced raw diets are so great, the encompass what you would find an opportunistic carnivore eating.

    IMO, I would classify a modern domestic canine as an opportunistic carnivore. Of course they would prefer juicy rabbit over a rice cake, but if all they could find was that rice cake, they would eat it. And be able to derive limited nutrients from it. Their digestive track was designed to accommodate meat, but also pre-digested (or steamed) vegetation. Their teeth are design to rip and tear, but they also have teeth that can mash and chew if needed.

    You just have to know your individual dogs - what do they thrive on? What do they enjoy? You are their caregiver, its ultimately up to you!
  • shiba2shikokushiba2shikoku
    edited November -1
    That is true. I think as a newbie I am still trying to figure out what Tsuki and Taro like and what will be best for them. Taro is away at boot camp, but getting a Bravo raw diet while in training. I wanted to do the best thing for my dogs even though it takes more effort than throwing a C. of kibble in a bowl. There is always a little learning curve at first. Tsuki's verbena munching is new, so I need to see what that's about.

    My Shiba girl died from liver failure at age 12 and I believe it was from inferior dog food, so I am excited to offer Tsuki and Taro something better for them. I don't ever want to have to see one ofmy dogs suffer again, especially if I can o something to prevent it!!!

    You are right, I have to figure out what is best for my own dogs and what works for all of us. And it is a bit confusing, but well worth it for them! Plus, it fun for me to see them enjoying what I put in there bowl...

    I think Tsuki would have enjoyed eating the tree frog if she could have gotten to it, eew!


    Here's on of Taro, just for fun...
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    lol! Tsuki is hilarious! I bet she would have eaten it, too! My shibas are always trying to catch mice, voles and all kinds of bugs...

    raw definitely is a learning process, because there are so many ways to incorporate different feeding styles into a raw-based diet. You'll find that everyone you talk to has their own preferred method.. try talking about homecooked to a nutritionist who is all about BARF feeding (barfworld.com), or talking about premade to a prey model feeder (rawfed.com).. but it really does come down to "know thy dog".

    Its why I put so much effort into their diet, too... I do not want to loose them too young, but I also want to put life in their years. I think RAW feeding gives them so much vibrancy and total wellness.

    Congrats on deciding on raw! If you have any other questions, feel free to post! We can learn about it together!!
Sign In or Register to comment.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2024