Ishi is looking for a new home

NekopanNekopan
edited August 2009 in Shikoku Ken (四国犬)
I finally met Katja today (which was excellent, definitely know that the Shikoku is the breed for me!) and had a good chat, but found out some saddening news. Ishi has been back with her for about three weeks. She says he is extremely dog reactive, especially with males, but will tolerate some females. Katja told me with a firm "heel" on walks, he will ignore other dogs and not try to go after them.

Ishi needs an owner that is confident, assertive, and can deal with dog reactiveness. Katja seems really disappointed that his last family did not work out, so I would recommend a potential owner make sure they are 100% committed to taking on this sort of dog before they contact her.
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Comments

  • KenshiKenshi
    edited November -1
    That dog is too hardcore. He should cut a rap album.
  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    edited November -1
    Poor Ishi...it is hard on the dogs to get so upset. :(
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    edited November -1
    That is really a shame that Chris couldn't keep him. He is a very handsome dog.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    Wow, this makes me incredibly sad...
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    Awww, Ishi is such a stud too. I'd take him in a heart beat if I could :\ ~
  • CaliaCalia
    edited November -1
    Poor thing...I hope he does find that perfect home
  • SangmortSangmort
    edited August 2009
    BTW, THIS is Ishi for neone that doesn't know him. I believe he is Ahi & Rakka's daddy. :) ~

    Photobucket

    Photobucket

    Photobucket

    [ these are the photos Chris took of him. ]
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    edited November -1
    Oh man, this is really upsetting!

    Did she say why Chris couldn't keep him? I thought he was doing great with Chris - what happened???

    That is Ahi's & Rakka's dad.

    I'm really sad to hear this.

    ----
  • NekopanNekopan
    edited November -1
    I believe Katja told me something about Chris getting married or starting a family and he no longer had time for Ishi. I'm not sure of this though.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    edited November -1
    That's too sad for him, will Katja think about holding onto him, her place may be more safe/secure? He sounds like a little much for even a Shikoku savy owner to deal with, but hopefully the right people come along for him.
  • cmmookiecmmookie
    edited November -1
    Ishi is so handsome. I really hope there is someone out there who has enough time and a fitting lifestyle to be able to take him in.
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    edited November -1
    God he is a beautiful dog. I only wish he wasn't same-sex aggressive otherwise I'd take him.:(

    Jesse
  • NekopanNekopan
    edited November -1
    Just wanted to add - in my original post I meant to put "reactive" rather than "aggressive" because I think this describes the behaviour more accurately. My post was written quickly as I was just on the way out the door. Thanks Osy for adding pictures!

    Lindsay - I am certain Katja will keep him until the right person comes along, but I think at the moment she has more dogs at her place than she can ... I don't want to say "handle", perhaps fully meet all their needs? Especially if Ishi is male dog reactive, I imagine he will be unhappy - since she has more than three intact males living there.
  • HeidiHeidi
    edited November -1
    That's so sad! I would totally take him if he didn't have issues with other dogs. I guess he should be an only dog. Poor Ishi.
  • tobyshibatobyshiba
    edited November -1
    Poor Ishi! :( He is such a handsome boy. I wish he wasn't male-reactive, otherwise i'd take him in a heartbeat.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    OMG. Poor Ishi. He's so incredibly beautiful! I would love to take him, but with the baby, I have enough on my plate.
  • yukidomariyukidomari
    edited August 2009
    Ishi is a retired stud than, if he's the father to two of the pups here, right?

    Has he always been reactive, even at dog shows? I'm sorry, I haven't been around this forum to know enough about Ishi's history... if I assume correctly that he's a retired breeder that needs to find a home, Katja's had him before for quite a while, right?
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    Check out Katja's website:
    http://www.akashima.bc.ca/shikoku-dogs.htm
    Ishi is on there.

    I believe she co-owned Ishi? But you should email her directly for more indepth answers to your questions.
  • ShikokuSpiritShikokuSpirit
    edited November -1
    Oh, poor guy.

    Yeah, I thought things were going great with Chris & Ishi as well. It seemed like they were making major progression.

    ----------

    Yes, Ishi was originally on a co-ownership. He was imported I believe at around 1 year of age. So he was raised in Japan. If you go to NIPPO shows there, you will find Shikoku very similar to Ishi in temperment & reactiveness -smiles-. Ishi is a normal Shikoku, normal dog.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    edited November -1
    So, he's the way he is basically because he was raised that way for the first year of his life? That's a problem I have with Japanese imports of any of the Nihon Ken that have spent too long over there. They can be super hard to work with and really reactive, Shiba are no exception. Goes to show what a big impact early socializing can make.
  • yukidomariyukidomari
    edited November -1
    Oh, I checked the page, but it seemed it hasn't been updated in a long time, and there wasn't any specific information on Ishii.. Thanks anyway, Jen!

    I was just wondering if it was the normal amount of reactivity seen in lots of Shikoku (like Corina said) or something way over-the-top... which to me is hard to imagine if he was living in a kennel with other dogs all his life and/or been to show.
  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    edited November -1
    What is behind the desire to create a reactive dog? It is normal for shikoku to be highly dog reactive? I need to know the truth. Is it "normal" for kai to be dog-reactive?
    If many nihonken raised in Japan are reactive, are you thinking that they deliberately teach them to be that way, they are conditioned to be reactive, or (perhaps in addition) that they are highly susceptible to reactivity to begin with?
  • ShikokuSpiritShikokuSpirit
    edited November -1
    It has just been my observation that it's more commonly observed in Japan and perfectly acceptable there. Whether this behavior is encouraged or just simply not dealt with...I don't know. I hear "rumors"...but I've never actually spoken to any of the breeders, handlers or owners concerning this...so I can't confirm anything with verbals from the actual sources.

    Basically, you will see dogs at NIPPO shows that would so totally be disqualified or asked to leave the ring if it were an AKC event...because of behavior conduct...whether it was directed towards the judge or other dogs. However, in NIPPO, this kind of behavior seems to be accepted.

    Whether those dogs actually place...I do not know either (maybe if they have super structure). As the show is mostly structure but also a little bit temperment. And really temperment as well is bias from judge to judge. Some like a "tough" dog and others may want more of a balance.

    Anyways...yeah, perhaps if Mr. Ishi had come along as a young puppy like Shoushuu (Kei) & Tenshou (Kuma)...things might have been made eaiser for him.

    I really hope Ishi has a forever, caring, loving & understanding home coming up. He deserves it.
  • yukidomariyukidomari
    edited August 2009
    I don't know if it's a desire to create reactive dogs. I've always thought about it more along the lines of, they're more predisposed to being reactive. And especially so if not socialized. Most dogs in Japan of larger sizes do tend to live outdoors, but I don't think that that by itself would make for a reactive dog... so I'm not really sure. Lantis (a doberman) lived outside until he was 5 years old yet he pretty much has no interest in stranger dogs..

    And I think when the issue pops up, it's just not really dealt with. I mean, as I previously said, larger dogs are usually kept outdoors so 'problematic' behavior doesn't really hamper an owner's life all that much. And it's still kind of rare to see people outdoors walking their larger dogs, so perhaps reactivity really doesn't matter much in that regard.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    edited November -1
    I think it's the lack of socializing. These dogs are not allowed in houses and are probably not frequently handled except for exercise and breeding. Breeding may also be the only close contact they have with other dogs when adults. I have heard of import Shibas literally maiming and trying to kill other dogs until they realize that it's a bitch in heat that was supposed to be for breeding. It was the dogs instant reaction to want to kill any other dog that it saw, all from lack of dog and human socializing at those critical ages and the way dogs are shown in Japan (face-offs). I think they like it when the dogs look tough, stoic, turned on and spirited in the ring. Also, just because a dog has been put on a lead and taken to a show doesn't mean that it has any more social skills than the dog down the street.
  • yukidomariyukidomari
    edited November -1
    Lindsay,

    I meant "been to show" being in that conformation shows are in part to do with the conformation of a dog, in part having to do with the ability of a dog to "behave itself" in the ring - at least enough to go through with the performance.
  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    edited November -1
    Help me out- what's this face off? and this is at official shows? that = our AKC shows? Do they do this across all nihonken?
  • yukidomariyukidomari
    edited November -1
    I don't think that the JKC does "face off" type competitions. Perhaps just at NIPPO..
  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    edited November -1
    What's the difference between JKC and Nippo? How woudl you characterize the two?
  • yukidomariyukidomari
    edited August 2009
    JKC is the National-level dog registry on par with the AKC, and a member of the International Federation (FCI). They register many dogs from all over and split the dogs into categories as given by the FCI.

    NIPPO is a registry for just the 6 nihonken, and is a registry dedicated to the preservation of just those dogs. They have their own shows and what not and maintain their own registry separate (but can be cross listed) with JKC registered dogs.

    NIPPO is generally thought to be more "hardliner" about the 6 (of course, being that that's their specialization).

    In NIPPO events, by guidelines the handler is to stand behind the dog and let the dog take natural stance. Aggressive posturing doesn't necessarily show the quality of kan-i, and sometimes points are docked for that.. however some people believe this to be a "face off" between the entrants.. I don't necessarily see it as such.
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