I was just generalizing over all the Nihon Ken in NIPPO.
With Shikoku handlers, most of the time I see them trying to correct and manage their dogs. So I'd agree with the being "predisposed" to reactivity & most probably don't do anything to prevent something from becoming a potential problem. I think more so males then females. As most, if not all, those situations I had seen with reactiveness towards the judge and other dogs were males. So perhaps the judges are just very understanding?
I've heard a rumor that encouraging on "toughness" is common among certain breeding circles though...but it's just that...a rumor. <--- again with the generalization on all dogs at NIPPO.
Some will disagree, but I think that a certain amount of reactivity isn't necessarily a problem and can very well be part of a breed characteristics. There are other dogs in dogdom that are expected to be reactive and/or aggressive in general too, where even judges at show are instructed NOT to handle or touch the dog.
So it would depend on the reactivity level of Mr. Ishi. And the ability for the dog to adapt to maybe not new stranger dogs daily, but its home-pack when given enough time.
The face off is when (usually) two dogs character is being tested. I have only seen it with terriers in AKC specialty shows/trials, and they only do it with terriers as far as I know. I have never been to a NIPPO event, but I have been told it's to test the mental metal of two Nihon Ken of comparable physical structure. The "weaker" and less worthy dog is supposed to look away or budge. The handler stands behind the dog to do this and the dog is out in front and not supposed to move at all or break eye contact from the other dog. You can imagine that the dogs probably don't have friendly intentions towards each other at this point and this behavior is encouraged so as to make the dog seem more correct for judging. I don't know if they do this for Kai. It seems counter productive because don't Kai, Kishu and Hokkaido hunt in packs or pairs?
I need to know the truth. Is it "normal" for kai to be dog-reactive? >> It's not "normal" for any breed to be dog-reactive, it always comes down socialization. Some breeds require more socialization than others... I think the Kai falls into that category (and probably requires more than a Shikoku, but a Shikoku requires more than a lab, but both breeds require less than a Presa Canario - for example).
A lot of Kai breeders live very remotely (up in the mountains), and breed their Kai for hunting, so they are selecting for drive... and drive easily leads a dog down a dark road if it cannot work that anxiety (that drive can lead to) out of it's system on a regular basis (by hunting, for example).
*Let me speak from experience, when you live remotely, it is a BIG TASK to keep your dogs socialized properly.
As for Shikoku in Japan, I would say there are probably more "kennel dogs" in the Shikoku breed (and not remote hunters like the Kai). I would guess that they are not socialized due to spending their life in a cage and only coming out to breed and show (which may be why Ishi got a crappy start <- speculating here).
PS: Most Kai breeders are not in NIPPO and only breed/show under the Aigokai.
The two dogs looking at each other, Lindsay, is not really anymore different, IMO, than two dogs meeting on a lead in the streets. I don't know how you'd be able to encourage a dog not to naturally access another and make appropriate gestures. We're not talking about aggression here.. just subtle posturing that denotes a dog's feeling towards one another.
Well, anyway, I never took NIPPO shows to encourage reactivity, but that's just my take on it!
Very handsome boy. If he is anything similar to Ahi in personality, I am sure he requires a bit of energy expenditure to ease tension. I certainly hope he finds a fit with a family that can provide what he needs. Really it is too bad that something could not have been worked through to make work out. So sad, but good that he is back with Katja.
As mentioned above I think it is about dealing with reactiveness. There may be some dogs that he may actually get along with but of course that has to be weighted on a case by case basis and through careful integration. It is important to match personalities and play style, particularly with dogs that push it with others.
Early socialization is key but in some dogs they do have a personality that is what it is. Nature vs. nurture. You have the influence of both that affects the outcome of the fully adult personality.
"It is important to match personalities and play style"
Jus a quick question on this, but from seeing the Shikoku on this site (my only experience by the way) and hearing stories can this be a bit of a difficult task. Shikoku seem to have a very unique way of playing and can be pretty dominating. Please correct me if I'm wrong. What would one look for in a possible comanion dog that would match their needs in a pack mate?
"I need to know the truth. Is it "normal" for kai to be dog-reactive?"
No this is not "normal" behavior. Though I think any Kai owner, who has done their research and spoken to multiple breeders and other Kai owners would agree with Brad that socialization is key. I would say more than initial training. A Kai will catch on extremely quick to new commands and can learn some of them in a matter of minutes or a couple of days. They are not as stubborn as Shiba and more willing to please their "one" owner. They also are very food driven so any treats with training, and they've got it down. Training will be no problem when it comes to a Kai.
Now socialization and making sure that they do not become reactive to other dogs MUST start from birth. The breeder is fully responsible for their first 8 weeks and must have the ability to introduce the Kai pups to new sounds, smells, and preferrably other animals in the home. When an owner takes home a Kai, they MUST continue this socialization from the start. IMO Kai's bond closely with their owner from the start and learn to trust their human, but that doesn't mean that they will trust others or other dogs. They have to be introduced to new places, people, things, and animals and any sign of fear needs to be addressed right away. Socialization will continue well into their adulthood. A Kai that is not socialized can become dog reactive and I have heard even human aggressive in the home. They are smart dogs, and if they think they can get the best of you they will. Sadly, most of the Kai rescue stories I have heard of are Kai's who have become dog aggressive in the home or who have completely taken over the household and have flipped the role to dominate their owners. I have heard three stories in the past 9 months of these Kai being put down. It's sad, but once they get used to that behavior it can be very difficult to turn them around.
Tara- As far as Shikoku and finding a compatible playmate for them, if you already have a Shikoku and are looking to add, I would probably suggest a dog that can play rough (for instance not a little teensy toy dog). I added my Shikoku to a pack consisting of a male Shiba Inu and a female Pit Bull. We made it work. My shiba and Miko played well and hard! Piglet was older and had health issues, but when she felt like playing, despite her having a good 30lbs on Miko, Miko could hold her own. As most of you know Moto (my shiba) died in November, and then Piglet died in May. Once we reassembled our lives a bit we took in what was supposed to be a foster, a young pit bull named Ruby. She and Miko are best friends. That said to the untrained eye they look like they are beating the shit out of each other. I would say also that 9 times out of 10 Miko is the one playing more rough. Also Miko is reactive to other dogs, not aggressive, but she puts on a show. So if adding a Shikoku or adding to one, I would just say make sure the other dog is a heart active one. Just from personal experience.
Comments
With Shikoku handlers, most of the time I see them trying to correct and manage their dogs. So I'd agree with the being "predisposed" to reactivity & most probably don't do anything to prevent something from becoming a potential problem. I think more so males then females. As most, if not all, those situations I had seen with reactiveness towards the judge and other dogs were males. So perhaps the judges are just very understanding?
I've heard a rumor that encouraging on "toughness" is common among certain breeding circles though...but it's just that...a rumor. <--- again with the generalization on all dogs at NIPPO.
I hope Ishi finds the right human partner and home. I feel for ya, big fella- good luck.
So it would depend on the reactivity level of Mr. Ishi. And the ability for the dog to adapt to maybe not new stranger dogs daily, but its home-pack when given enough time.
>> It's not "normal" for any breed to be dog-reactive, it always comes down socialization. Some breeds require more socialization than others... I think the Kai falls into that category (and probably requires more than a Shikoku, but a Shikoku requires more than a lab, but both breeds require less than a Presa Canario - for example).
A lot of Kai breeders live very remotely (up in the mountains), and breed their Kai for hunting, so they are selecting for drive... and drive easily leads a dog down a dark road if it cannot work that anxiety (that drive can lead to) out of it's system on a regular basis (by hunting, for example).
*Let me speak from experience, when you live remotely, it is a BIG TASK to keep your dogs socialized properly.
As for Shikoku in Japan, I would say there are probably more "kennel dogs" in the Shikoku breed (and not remote hunters like the Kai). I would guess that they are not socialized due to spending their life in a cage and only coming out to breed and show (which may be why Ishi got a crappy start <- speculating here).
PS: Most Kai breeders are not in NIPPO and only breed/show under the Aigokai.
----
It really is some fascinating stuff other members might be interested in but not know because it's in disguse! -grins-
Well, anyway, I never took NIPPO shows to encourage reactivity, but that's just my take on it!
Jesse
As mentioned above I think it is about dealing with reactiveness. There may be some dogs that he may actually get along with but of course that has to be weighted on a case by case basis and through careful integration. It is important to match personalities and play style, particularly with dogs that push it with others.
Early socialization is key but in some dogs they do have a personality that is what it is. Nature vs. nurture. You have the influence of both that affects the outcome of the fully adult personality.
Snf
Jus a quick question on this, but from seeing the Shikoku on this site (my only experience by the way) and hearing stories can this be a bit of a difficult task. Shikoku seem to have a very unique way of playing and can be pretty dominating. Please correct me if I'm wrong. What would one look for in a possible comanion dog that would match their needs in a pack mate?
"I need to know the truth. Is it "normal" for kai to be dog-reactive?"
No this is not "normal" behavior. Though I think any Kai owner, who has done their research and spoken to multiple breeders and other Kai owners would agree with Brad that socialization is key. I would say more than initial training. A Kai will catch on extremely quick to new commands and can learn some of them in a matter of minutes or a couple of days. They are not as stubborn as Shiba and more willing to please their "one" owner. They also are very food driven so any treats with training, and they've got it down. Training will be no problem when it comes to a Kai.
Now socialization and making sure that they do not become reactive to other dogs MUST start from birth. The breeder is fully responsible for their first 8 weeks and must have the ability to introduce the Kai pups to new sounds, smells, and preferrably other animals in the home. When an owner takes home a Kai, they MUST continue this socialization from the start. IMO Kai's bond closely with their owner from the start and learn to trust their human, but that doesn't mean that they will trust others or other dogs. They have to be introduced to new places, people, things, and animals and any sign of fear needs to be addressed right away. Socialization will continue well into their adulthood. A Kai that is not socialized can become dog reactive and I have heard even human aggressive in the home. They are smart dogs, and if they think they can get the best of you they will. Sadly, most of the Kai rescue stories I have heard of are Kai's who have become dog aggressive in the home or who have completely taken over the household and have flipped the role to dominate their owners. I have heard three stories in the past 9 months of these Kai being put down. It's sad, but once they get used to that behavior it can be very difficult to turn them around.
As far as Shikoku and finding a compatible playmate for them, if you already have a Shikoku and are looking to add, I would probably suggest a dog that can play rough (for instance not a little teensy toy dog). I added my Shikoku to a pack consisting of a male Shiba Inu and a female Pit Bull. We made it work. My shiba and Miko played well and hard! Piglet was older and had health issues, but when she felt like playing, despite her having a good 30lbs on Miko, Miko could hold her own. As most of you know Moto (my shiba) died in November, and then Piglet died in May. Once we reassembled our lives a bit we took in what was supposed to be a foster, a young pit bull named Ruby. She and Miko are best friends. That said to the untrained eye they look like they are beating the shit out of each other. I would say also that 9 times out of 10 Miko is the one playing more rough. Also Miko is reactive to other dogs, not aggressive, but she puts on a show. So if adding a Shikoku or adding to one, I would just say make sure the other dog is a heart active one. Just from personal experience.