Kennel license etc.
So we're going to be moving out to Vandenberg this year, Tommy definitely, hopefully me later this year. I called Santa Barbara county to find out if there was a dogs/household limit. There is, 3/house. San Lois Obispo county has a restriction depending on the city. We have 4 dogs currently. I guess to have more dogs, you can apply for a kennel license, but it could have zoning restrictions. The kennel license application requires a house visit, etc. To have a kennel license, do you have to have a breeding license also? We plan on getting one in a few years when we breed Sora, but not any time soon. Does anyone have experience with this issue? We'd appreciate any advice.
Comments
That's funny, I just drove down from that way last weekend (back to home from San Francisco)! I remember reading signs with those city/county names.
No such thing as a breeding license. There have been/are issues in California with proposed bills trying to issue such a silly thing for breeding and spaying/neutering for cats and dogs. So far, our efforts in killing these bills have been successful, but they keep coming back. Recently they have been geared more towards counties rather then the state in its entire. So keep a good eye out for them and FIGHT!
Kennel licensing, unfortunely, yes...depending on the county you may or may not need to apply for one. If I am correct and this may depend on country or just apply for the whole of California. If you have a Kennel License then you do not need to individually license your dogs because they should already be covered under the Kennel permit.
I am hesitant to post this but my heart kept tugging at me that I needed to.
Corina, I understand your having a problem with mandatory spaying and neutering. It is very Orwellian. And I don't love the sounds of it either.
However the other side of the coin is this, 5 million dogs are euthanized annually because they are unwanted. Not aggressive, or diseased, just someone changed their mind, or found out it is too much work. Shelters are SO overpopulated that good dogs are being killed because the shelters cannot afford to feed and shelter all of them.
Mandatory spaying/neutering, and licensing for show dogs and breeders, is an attempt to stop the needless murder of innocent animals. It is also a way of trying to eliminate puppy mills, as well as the backyard breeders who don't run any of the genealogical testing that good breeders do (i.e. all the tests that Miisan does for his Akitas or Peggy and Katja do for their shikoku and shibas) and in the end breed and sell unhealthy poor tempered pups.
It is frustrating for responsible owners such as the folks on this forum, who do the research, and take responsibility for the actions of their animals, and are hoping to breed their dogs in a manner that is conciencious and healthy.
But take a look at all the rescue groups for Nihon ken
Akita Rescue Society
Shiba Inu Rescue
This is what happens when people can just buy a dog at a pet store, or someones neighbor decided to mate their dog with some other casual pet owner.
How many of us have rescued pets? Moto was obtained from a breeder. His owner signed a contract saying he would return him to a breeder if he couldn't keep him for any reason. But he STILL took him to the pound when he became too much work. Nemo is a rescue, and a heartbreaking story ( "Tale of Two Brothers "). Maui is a rescue. These pups have happy endings,but how many others get put down?
I just wonder if it is that wrong to ask people to be held more accountable for their pets?
I'm torn on the issue. On one hand, I see people I know who are blatant backyard breeders, very open about the fact that they just want the money. I know someone who bought two minpins from a petstore just so she could breed them and sell them for $2000 each. On the other hand, as someone who wants to breed (responsibly) one day, it does seem like a huge pain in the behind. One thing that concerns me as well is that I've heard that their definition of a purebred dog is one that is registered with the AKC. This, of course, does not bode well for breeders of rare, unrecognized breeds and could lead to their extinction.
So... like I said, I'm torn.
The other thing is that breeder and kennel licensing and spay/neuter policies, are a way to crack down on dog fighters, without breed specific legislation.
Heidi I agree that the issue is in no way black and white. I doubt that governments could specify that breeding be limited to AKC registered pooches. Consider all the "designer" breeds (a.k.a mutts such as "puggles" and the whole "doodle" phenomenon) that are considered highly profitable.
In all honesty, I can't imagine any government agency putting much effort or funding into any program because they typically still consider animals property. Look how little time Michael Vick is serving.
Jessica, the problem is that this will NOT eilmate the puppy mills or backyard breeders. It will instead make it difficult for show and working dog breeders to continue.
Puppy Mills
They are BIG business', they will be able to afford to pay for such licensing and continue to produce crap. Just because they can pay for a "breeders permit" doesn't mean that they will be producing quality. The goverment/animal control doesn't come to inspect that they are breeding responsibly, so long as they have received payment for the permit, there is nothing for them to dispute.
Backyard Breeders
Some may cease breeding, but there will still be many others that will continue. They don't care about "laws" and will continue to do what they have always done "under radar".
Show/Working Dog Breeders
These are the people who follow the laws and register their Dogs license and Kennel license (if required). A lot of them are just "hobby breeders". They do this because they love their breed and want the best for them. They enjoy doing showing events and/or working sports with their canines. Though this is an expensive hobby, to be honest, a lot of breeders can't really afford it. Occasionally, yes, they may make a profit, but any profits made go back into their breeding program (food, breedings, puppies, shows/trials, travels, equipment, etc). Often they end up losing money or barely breaking even. They continue to do this because it is their passion.
If restrictions are put on them, many breeders won't be able to afford it. Many will cease breeding dogs that SHOULD be bred to keep quality and preserve the breed for later generations. Many will refuse to comply and move out of state or...in some case, even risk going "under radar" and stop complying with the law because it is so ridiculous.
It will be hurting us and we are not the problem.
Overpopulation?
Animals in shelters are the product of feral offspring, puppy mills, backyard breeders and abandoned pets. Mandatory laws are NOT going to stop feral animals or puppy mills from producing. And neither party will do any "take backs". Therefore, these will be the pets that will continued to be abandon if they are unwanted in their new homes.
Responsible Breeders will not allow this to happen to their pups, they will take back any dog that they produced, for whatever reason, at whatever age. And many breeders do provide foster care or run rescue services for animals of their breed (meaning, even the ones they themselves do not produce, but instead take responsiblity for).
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I understand the intention behind these laws, however, these will not be the results. Instead they will be hurting Responsible Breeders and endangering the future of certain breeds. In California alone, we have quite a few rare breeds. If such demands were to be placed and Breeders were forced to comply, these breeds (which have a very limited amount of bloodlines as it is) would be thrown out of the gene pool. And the future for them will look dim; these breeds may not surive and may cease to exist.
There will be many losses to be had. Instead, I think Education is a better outlet. By promoting animal education unto the public, I truely believe that we will obtain the results in which we wish to see.
From a political perspective, The Pet Business is a MAJOR business in California. If these laws were to pass, our economics will suffer.
Actions (the breeders/owners) and quality produced (in their dogs) are what makes Responsible Breeders just that - responsible.
Just because you have a contract and show or work your dog does not in any way make you responsible. I know of quite a few people who are like this, some actually have decent dogs and may mean well. However, this does not deny that fact they may very well be backyard breeders or puppy mills themselves.
You may be surprised to find this out, backyard breeders and puppy mills can have many forms - some very obvious and others not so much. This is why people must do their homework when choosing a breeder. Not to say they any of them are bad, they might be wonderful people, with good intentions and some great dogs, but maybe they just produce "pet quality" and nothing more.
This was pretty much what I expected.
As I mentioned, this is not a black and white topic.
There is no real solution. I wish there was.
Obviously licensing would not eliminate all problems.
And we all know that less than honorable folks will always find ways to profit in less than honorable ways.
It would be really neat if education could be the answer.
Sadly having worked closely with rescue organizations since I was twelve years old (over 20 years) I have witnessed that in most cases it is not a question of education, but ethics. Millions of people still see animals as things. Or even worse a commodity. Animals are treated as if they OWE something to us.
There is no answer.
There are millions of very nice well intentioned people who do not understand that their actions contribute to the harm of animals.
I just have seen the dumpsters of euthanized animals (NONE of them feral. Many of them purebreeds, ALL of them deserving better than being killed because they were too expensive to feed). I have fostered and placed so many dogs that were abandoned because someone couldn't be bothered and just dumped them.
It is a complicated situation.
Just like I wish people would learn that war is not an answer.
I wish people would learn that animals are not things.
"Very little of the great cruelty shown by men can really be attributed
to cruel instinct. Most of it comes from thoughtlessness or inherited
habit. The roots of cruelty, therefore, are not so much strong as
widespread. But the time must come when inhumanity protected by custom
and thoughtlessness will succumb before humanity championed by
thought. Let us work that this time may come. " ~Albert Schweitzer
"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the
shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal
likewise with their fellow men." ~St. Francis of Assisi
It is a complicated situation indeed -sighs-, but we do what we can, the best we can, ourselves.
Popular quote:
"If you want something done right, do it yourself".
And I love this quote, I took it off of the Southern California Husky Rescue:
"Saving one dog won't change the world,
but surely the world will change for that one dog..."
This by no means will be the solution to the entire equation. However, it does help to cancel out some of the numbers within it.
We are also facing a future (current???) problem with overpopulation in humans and we are still trying to figure out a solution for that. None the less, we must continue to produce. Survival of the fittest, tis' how species surive and continue to thrive.
Unfortunely, we can't save the world, not everyone is going to have a happy ending; life can be very unfair at times. Even super heros have their limitations. We can only do so much, but every little bit counts and is totally worth it. And this is what we encourage in others; what we want to encourage.
What we can do, is make sure that the dogs in our lives have a happy "fairy tale" ending. Then we can provide other, less fortunate dogs, the best care possible. We can only do what we have control over and then make the best attempts possible in others. There are just things in life that we are powerless to stop. It does leave an empty feeling inside - but this is the kind of feeling that drives us to protect the existing. So that they do not suffer a cruel fate.
With love comes hate.
With hope, there will be despair.
A new life is born, another dies.
This is just life. These are the very things that drive us though. There will be sacrafices, we make them every day, but at least you can come home to your dogs. When you look into their eyes, you can smile and know that they will not (or never again) suffer.
We must take things one dog at a time. After that, it just takes time for the numbers to dwindle down.
As far as I hear though, we have had success with decreasing population count in Animal Shelters. Our population situation actually isn't as bad as the media makes it to be. And when Hurricane Katrina hit, California took in and cared for a lot of the animals involved in this disaster.
I only ask the state (California) to not make such demands, but instead to work with us on the issue. We have had great success with voluntary spay/neuter to prevent possible "accident" breedings. And there are plenty of vets that have low cost and even free spay/neuter services. We also have programs available to the public to help people with any issues that they may have with their animals, doing our part to try and solve it. The more we provide such services for free or at a reasonable price, the more closer we are to our goals of every shelter being a "no-kill" shelter, with a reasonable animal population count and surrendering of pets due to issues at a min.
(Note - Feral applies namely the offspring of cats. However, there are certain places in the United States & other countries that do have a feral, stray or "free roam" dog problem.)
I wish you were right about the over population numbers decreasing. Sadly the statistics I have been given are not showing that.
As far as human population goes, I'm not so sure that we "must continue to produce". (I pass no judgment on those who have chosen to have children,except those folks who are always on TV with their 14 kids, UGH), but Jason and I are working on becoming foster parents, and choosing to not reproduce for a reason. I am of the philosophy, "why make more, when their are SO MANY in need already".
It is interesting that you mention Katrina. While some of the surviving animals did have the good luck of being imported to other states, in the animal welfare circles the handling of that disaster is considered one of the biggest animal rescue tragedies. 600,000 animals were left homeless, less than a third have been placed. That means @400,000 homeless pets.
I too love the statement If you want something done right, do it yourself.
part of why I bake everything from scratch
and I love the quote about changing the world of one dog.
I have grappled quite a bit about the breeder question. I vowed to never get a dog from a breeder for years. Then I learned about the shikoku. Jay and I took one look and had to have one. But I admit I have felt tremendous guilt about getting one. Then when I rescued Piglet and witnessed her desperate desire to mother, I got some peace knowing that Piggy was finally going to get to raise a puppy (all of hers were taken from her, we don't know about their fate). I know Himiko is going to be a wonderful addition to our family.
But it only means I will have to strive even more to be "part of the solution". We are starting a rescue ourselves. As you mentioned earlier, "if you want something done right..."
I am currently shopping for property in areas with no BSL, and applying for all the necessary permits, and talking to different contractors about the building of kennels, and fences.
This is a discussion that could be had for hours, without EVER coming to a resolution. And frankly who doesn't love a good discussion?
But the one thing that we have 100% come to agreement on is that there is no simple answer. And that even people who truly care about animals, will differ on how to do so.
I am planning on being out west in late summer early fall (my vacation this year is to go to Best Friends Animal Sanctuary and work with their homeless dogs, including 22 of Michael Vicks) I will also be stopping in LA to meet up with some of my old agency buds. I think that is your neck of the woods. We will have to meet up. And perhaps have a hearty debate
I know im late but I agree that this is a very heated topic and not black and white as stated. All animals I have ever had have been rescues except Niko. After getting Niko I have realized the value of ethical and moral breeders. I have known I wanted an Akita for a very long time but Chad wasnt convinced until we met Hilo. We rescued Sasha prior to that realization. I have vowed if I were to ever get from a breeder again it would after great research, conversations and so on. I will continue to rescue but also want to ensure that certain breeds grow and thrive such as the rare Japanese breeds. My husband was raised with pet store animals and I with rescues. Chad's family also believes that animals are disposable and they contribute to the shelter rates by getting dogs and cats, having them for a few months and "throwing" them out. He is under the same assumption that many are-rescues are beyond help, hopeless, dangerous and impossible to train. His heart has been moved after rescuing Sasha (after a very difficult adjustment period, as with any dog). As I stated I did not do much research prior to Niko and we were manipulated by the breeder stating that Shiba's are not able to be re-homed and are a one family dog. This is now known as untrue. I do not regret getting Niko and we were blessed but When we do it again we will rescue Shiba's. I personally have no issues with required fixing of animals because I personally would never have intentions of breeding. I know that this is something that is too big of a responsibility and my pets are my family. I also am a very big BIG anti BSL person and get very heated about it. I feel that responsible pet owners would do whatever to protect and honor their pet and breed. I feel that there should be some mandatory regulations to ensure that only responsible people have precious pup, but never rid the world of a breed. I think that owners need to be held responsible on every account to ensure that the breeds are protected.
Im gonna start rambling even more soon. I need to get to bed to get better! I think I have made no sense!
Love to you and your nihon ken!
I have thought about the ethics of buying/breeding purebred dogs vs rescuing. Personally, I think responsible breeders are as much a part of the solution as rescues. In the ideal world, all dogs would be born under the care of a responsible breeder. The problem is irresponsible breeders/owners and the symptom is homeless animals. In my opinion, supporting responsible breeders is part of the solution and rescuing homeless dogs helps to treat the symptom. Both are very important, which is why I would always like to own both purebred dogs and rescued dogs.
At least, that's how I see things.
Yay Jessica! Yes, please do let me know when are you in the area. We should totally meet up. are you bringing any of "the kids"?
Rachael, don't worry, it makes sense!
Heidi, that's what I do, lol. Growing up, I've always encouraged people to get their dogs from shelters because I've seen some wonderful dogs. My own German Shepherd/Husky mix, Sacha, my dad picked out from the animal shelter at 6 months of age. She had issues - hated men - but she grew to trust a few males and was always great with kids (even boys)! Smart dog. When I got my arm stuck in the fence at 2 years of age in the backyard...Sacha alerted the family inside the house - since the two of us were alone outside.
When I learned of responsible breeders though, I began gearing a bit more towards them. However, I still searched out rescues and shelters. At this point in my life, I'm on the road to becoming a breeder myself. I'm very loyal to my Belgians and Shikoku, so I will take in foster dogs every now and then. And I still haven't completely "let go" of wanting my Siberian Husky. So, some day in the future I think I will be adopting either a Senior or Adult (most likely male) Husky if I can find one that is good with cats, kids and other dogs. I will be getting him from a shelter or rescue or maybe a "throw away" dog someone wants to pond off to me.
So, I will be doing my shares of breeding, fostering/rehabilitating and rescuing. I just need a much BIGGER place! -grins-
One of my favorite breeders in the area (a Rottie breeder) has a big bumper sticker on her van that says "If you don't RESCUE, don't BREED!"
I think if everyone involved with dogs (fairytale world here) had her attitude, we would be on our way to fixing the pet over-population problem in this country.
I don't mind the ideas of well thought out, well planned, and well executed breeding laws that take into account the size of an operation before imposing limits on if they need a kennel and things like that. My biggest concern would be that, even after some really good laws were put in place, who is going to enforce them? The USDA? They are already a joke, it would just get worse.