I got the "vicious dogs on raw" comment!
We feed our three dogs partial raw. In the morning, they get their breakfast kibble (Acana for the little ones, Orijen for our dobe) with water just like I get my soy milk and cereal, though. For convenience's sake.
ANYWAY, yesterday Yoshiki (the bf) had his friend over. It was snack time for the dogs so they all got chicken feet (great for Lantis' arthritis, too: natural Chondroitin, et al).
So as he sat there watching them eat their raw chicken feet, I tried to make some conversation with him and he turns around and says something to the effect: "Wow, do your dogs ever attack you/bite your hands and stuff? Why would you risk it?" .. on and on..
I was completely dumbfounded why he would say that, or even associate that to eating raw food! I mean, he was in the house for an hour playing with our (generally well behaved - besides digging in the trash) dogs before they got their food......
Where exactly is that correlation??
I'm so curious, because he's an International student too, from Northern China, near the border of North Korea. It's not like he's used to dogs eating dog food...
ANYWAY, yesterday Yoshiki (the bf) had his friend over. It was snack time for the dogs so they all got chicken feet (great for Lantis' arthritis, too: natural Chondroitin, et al).
So as he sat there watching them eat their raw chicken feet, I tried to make some conversation with him and he turns around and says something to the effect: "Wow, do your dogs ever attack you/bite your hands and stuff? Why would you risk it?" .. on and on..
I was completely dumbfounded why he would say that, or even associate that to eating raw food! I mean, he was in the house for an hour playing with our (generally well behaved - besides digging in the trash) dogs before they got their food......
Where exactly is that correlation??
I'm so curious, because he's an International student too, from Northern China, near the border of North Korea. It's not like he's used to dogs eating dog food...
Comments
Seeing dogs eat animal parts is too wolfy for some.
Jesse
You should talk to Yoshiki about your common issues ;)
He seems to take after the dogs - after eating, sleep. And don't bother him, else you may be sorry...
Jesse, perhaps that's right!
What is the significance of his ethnicity in relation to the comment that he made regarding raw?
We are predators too. I think a lot of people forget that (or maybe they fear it).
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I always thought the "raw will make vicious dogs" were comments from people who were accustomed to dogs eating kibble or otherwise processed wet food.
I would imagine that in his area, they mostly feed the dogs table scraps, meat cuttings, or other stuff.. which to me is ever more puzzling why he would think that'd make vicious dogs..
I mean, in areas where there isn't yet dog food, I'd imagine the dogs just about ate anything available - including raw. At least, that's how my parents told me they fed their childhood dogs growing up after the war.
>> Without proper management, if you fed 2 dogs a RAW Bone, there is probably a high risk of them fighting over them. So, if I had to guess, the comment stems from people who DO feed RAW but don't properly manage their dogs during the process.
The comment has probably made it to the kibble feeders now as a reason to not feed RAW but stems from people who casually fed dogs RAW bones (or something similar) and caused issues between dogs.
Just a guess.
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I blogged about this not long ago, my mom is always asking me how my 'blood thirsty hounds' are
http://theyarewhattheyeat.blogspot.com/2009/06/bloodthirsty-hounds.html
When asked what we feed our dogs, the reaction is usually "aren't you afraid your dogs will try to eat you while you sleep?"
No. Not even a little bit. Mostly because they aren't even 25lbs, but also because that is a myth.
(http://rawfed.com/myths/bloodthirsty.html)
My dogs have a truly impressive prey drive, always have and I suspect they always will.
This hasn't changed since feeding them raw.
My dogs have always had a knack for treeing, chasing, and subsequently catching all sorts of things from bugs, lizards, birds to squirrels... they play with them until they are just about dead, then roll on them.
This hasn't changed since feeding them raw.
My dogs were well socialized with other dogs, they never have been 'dog aggressive'.
This hasn't changed since feeding them raw.
My male has always had some issue with resource guarding around other male dogs.
This hasn't changed since feeding him raw.
My dogs are young, vibrant, and energetic.
This has been enhanced, in a balanced way, since feeding them raw.
Keep it going!
However, a surprise came to me the other night!
I was in the kitchen cutting up some Beef Hearts for my trio's dinner. My boyfriend's father walks in and stood there for a moment watching me cut them up before asking, "What's that?"
I responded with, "It's dinner...for my dogs."
BF Father: "You're feeding that to your dogs?! They eat better then we do!"
ME: "They're dogs...it's what they eat."
BF Father: "If my father were still alive and saw you doing this, he'd whoop you!"
ME: "Why?"
BF Father: "That's people food!"
ME: "Dogs eat this too, it's healthy for them."
BF Father: "Why don't you feed them dog food?!" -it was a rehtorical (sp?) question but I answered it anyways -grins-.
ME: "Kibble isn't natural, ya know. Humans made it."
He walks off mumbling and shaking his head like I'm a "crazy" person for feeding my dogs "people" food.
LOL.
"You can take the most beautiful fresh ingredients, but once you refine them down to uniform pellets how much real food is left in it?"
"Have you ever seen a pack of wild dogs sitting around the campfire roasting their meat? Me either?"
"If I left one of my dogs in a room alone with a chicken or a bunny, I am pretty sure when I came back there would be not much beyond fur/feathers and blood."
"Mother nature made them predators and carnivores. I am not so arrogant to think I know more than nature."
Generally people either clam up or get very curious at this point.
I have not managed to do more than dabble in raw- I require supervision and "yes, that's fine," and that the math be removed for me. But I do cook for my dogs sometimes. I can't help but think eating kibbles all the time would be like me eating nothing but cheerios every meal, every day. Well... they'd be chicken-flavored cheerios, I suppose. And well... they'd be "complete"- so they might not be cheerios- they'd be what? Total? Real food is pleasurable. Kibble isn't.
Reilly would be SO all over me feeding rabbit, and I already KNOW she has no problem with the bones. (I was worried about her eating a whole skull..) but she has caught and eaten them many times with not even a burp. She eats them so fast though- isn't one piece of the benefit or feeding raw that the dogs work at it (rend! tear! crunch!) and gain muscle and dental benefits from the "dissecting?" Maybe Reilly needs a larger rabbit...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/345483871_be8e55f9ba_o.jpg
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Chrys, I can help you figure out the math parts
I love this one:
"Mother nature made them predators and carnivores. I am not so arrogant to think I know more than nature."
Hell yeah! I'm a predator too, though. Omnivore really. So I sympathize with my dogs!
you do a good job holding on to that slippery chicken!
Thanks, Jen- I'm interested in raw, but not without a coach.
Still today I have to hold the bony bits for him, otherwise he'll just stare at it for hours acting like he doesn't know what a turkey leg is.
Lilith loathes to get her paws wet or dirty, so she makes it work by pushing it against a wall or the floor when eating a raw meaty bone. And Luna just doesn't care either way. ;)
As a vegetarian, who does not survive on salads, I'm against forcing other species to eat by my own preferances. I choose my diet, as did all of you. Choosing to feed your dog (who has no say in this) all vegetables, all kibble or chocolate is not ok in my book.
Hope I don't sound all rude on my rant here. I do bet your dogs are all healthy on their diet. Feeding them what their supposed to eat, raw (or cooked) meat.
It doesn't help that the first time you see a dog eat a piece of dead animal it can look pretty crazy. The first time I saw my aunt's minpin go through a chicken leg/thigh I was pretty much making this face the whole time: O..o I mean this thing was bigger than her head and she would sort of half-swallow it, use her back teeth to break up the bones and then spit it back out and start tearing it apart after the bones were in managable chunks. The scene screamed "predator!" but that's not what my uninformed mind saw when I looked at this teeny dog.
I agree with what's been said before...it's easy to remove the idea of your dog being a wolf when you don't see them flex their instincts. A lot of owners don't seem to support instinct...it's more about making the dog fit a human lifestyle and expectation. A lot of the more common and popular breeds don't look like wolves or wild dogs either so it makes this (rather unfair) way of thinking even easier. Nihon-ken owners, I think in general, get to experience a different relationship with their dog right away than most can. These are dogs that look more like wild creatures, are smart, and much closer to their instincts - you can see the animal in them. For others that might be an even bigger sort issue...to have to realize their so-not-a-wolf dog can (and should!) tear apart a carcass. It doesn't look quite a scary when it's a stuffed toy. lol
But yeah...I think it does take a bit of a shift and a breaking down of sometimes sub-concious ideas to accept raw feeding in all of it's messy glory (especially the first time you see that messy glory). And I love the way you guys handle the OMG reactions because I know I wouldn't have looked into raw without knowing someone else who had been successful and was able to explain it intellegently.
I've never had any issues with her being protective over food (kibble or cooked), but when it comes to raw... if the cats come around to try and sniff they get a good scolding. The other day for the first time she sent a warning my way, though I think she was too into the fish and thought I was one of the cats.
Course I did a bit of work with her after that, but I was surprised. She really treats raw food differently. Not that I would say her overall behavior is different because she eats raw, but it definitely is when she's eating it.
That being said it's amazing watching her go through raw. I wasn't sure how she'd take to it, but she deals with it very well. So far just chickens, fish, and eggs, but once we go into hunting season the menu should get more varied.