Reconcile / Fluoxetine
Kitsune needs something more than behavior modification alone.
His fears and social anxiety, or what I, a CPDT and behaviorist believe is anxiety, seems to get the best of him in most stressful situations. To me, and agreed by the CPDT/behaviorist, when Kitsune is in a situation that causes him stress, he really can't control himself and resorts to what gets results... which is 'fighting' or extreme attempts at fleeing.
Due to his lack of confidence, and no self control in these situations... over a year and a half of counter conditioning training mixed with melatonin and behavior modification have not gotten anywhere. In fact, I'm seeing more issues arise as time goes on, rather than less.
I realize that fostering tends to make him more anxious and elevates his levels of everything negative... but its also something that I feel I need to do. I need to help these dogs find their way home. I love kitsune, he is my dog and a very prominent priority in my life. But I can not stop fostering. I will try to foster only females though, as I think the male dog is the major factor here.
So, Prozac. I'm in the stage of researching the benefit vs. risk, and how it can possibly be applied to his situation. Actually, the behaviorist suggested that I discuss it with my vet, normally I don't think I would have considered it.
I feel the indications for him - social fears & extreme anxieties - are what I am trying to remedy. I do not believe a pill will be the answer, but I think in conjunction with the training we've been trying to do, it will help us make more successes than failures in his training. This is his life, its the only one he has, I want to see him find more enjoyment than fear. We do not have the luxury of saying "oh well we'll just leave Kitsu home while we walk", he needs to walk. Something as simple as a walk around the neighborhood has been an increasingly difficult task due to his fears. We try to remain positive, but it gets worse nonetheless. Now he's lashing out at fosters and most recently had two incidences with Tsuki in the last week, as well as having 'accidents' in the house. He has a clean bill of health otherwise.
I don't want a sedative, I want to help him reduce and cope (or eventually overcome?) his anxieties and fears.
I haven't decided on Prozac, I'm just looking for any feedback, experience, research... Thanks.
His fears and social anxiety, or what I, a CPDT and behaviorist believe is anxiety, seems to get the best of him in most stressful situations. To me, and agreed by the CPDT/behaviorist, when Kitsune is in a situation that causes him stress, he really can't control himself and resorts to what gets results... which is 'fighting' or extreme attempts at fleeing.
Due to his lack of confidence, and no self control in these situations... over a year and a half of counter conditioning training mixed with melatonin and behavior modification have not gotten anywhere. In fact, I'm seeing more issues arise as time goes on, rather than less.
I realize that fostering tends to make him more anxious and elevates his levels of everything negative... but its also something that I feel I need to do. I need to help these dogs find their way home. I love kitsune, he is my dog and a very prominent priority in my life. But I can not stop fostering. I will try to foster only females though, as I think the male dog is the major factor here.
So, Prozac. I'm in the stage of researching the benefit vs. risk, and how it can possibly be applied to his situation. Actually, the behaviorist suggested that I discuss it with my vet, normally I don't think I would have considered it.
I feel the indications for him - social fears & extreme anxieties - are what I am trying to remedy. I do not believe a pill will be the answer, but I think in conjunction with the training we've been trying to do, it will help us make more successes than failures in his training. This is his life, its the only one he has, I want to see him find more enjoyment than fear. We do not have the luxury of saying "oh well we'll just leave Kitsu home while we walk", he needs to walk. Something as simple as a walk around the neighborhood has been an increasingly difficult task due to his fears. We try to remain positive, but it gets worse nonetheless. Now he's lashing out at fosters and most recently had two incidences with Tsuki in the last week, as well as having 'accidents' in the house. He has a clean bill of health otherwise.
I don't want a sedative, I want to help him reduce and cope (or eventually overcome?) his anxieties and fears.
I haven't decided on Prozac, I'm just looking for any feedback, experience, research... Thanks.
Comments
Sage is on Zoloft, has been for almost 6 months. It doesn't make him dopey or sedate him in any way. He is the same lovable playful, watchful guy he always was. The ONLY thing it does is buy me a few seconds to insert TRAINING. So instead of him seeing a dog and barking lunging instantly (anxiety:0-10 in .5 sec, 10 being a full blown reactive display), he senses the dog, begins to pant and perk up ears and he REMEMBERS to look to me for his parade of tiny treats. (drugs improve him to 0-3 in 4 sec, look for direction and treats then 4-10 in 2 if I dont reduce the stimulus) Through training and clarity we have been able to pass certain scaries at 0- 3 in 4 then down to 1 for a while, if he goes back to 0 I am ecstatic. Too great a stimulus and he goes right back to the dog, but I need to keep my part of the bargain and help him cope and get him out of there. I went with meds because I learned that people often wait too long to use them and it becomes a Last Resort. Furthermore, Suzanne Clothier told us that if we understood what stress chemically does to a dog, we wouldn't feel so resistant to drugs as part of the solution.
I have come to the conclusion recently that counter-conditioning only works against certain reasons for reactivity. Not all.
I also know now, that despite how much I loved doing certain things with him that he either hates or miserably endures, I just can't do them. He is my first responsibility and as his advocate and best friend I need to think of him first. I used to go to the off leash area 350 days a year - no more. I used to take dogs in to my home when their owners went away- no more. I used to have my brother and sister bring their dogs over for christmas. No more.
I could still do all those things and manage Sage- put him in another room, leave him home, apply extnesive management and watch him like a hawk when dogs are over, be strict about him tolerating jerks at the Field. But that is not following the natural course of the river, that is clinging to the rocks. He is not happy being micromanaged- neither of us is. I gave up some stuff and focused on what he does enjoy, what he IS good at, and work what is necessary. It was painful to give up those things, but resetting myself with a happy Sage is better than having the guilt and stress of trying to force those activities upon either of us.
I'll whisper you my number if you want to talk.
We have used Xanax in the past on a few of the dogs, it works really nice for dogs that just need something for situations (thunderstorms, car rides, ...) I dunno how it is long term tho. We tried Maui on it at one point and it FREAKED HIM OUT, he was running into things and barking at nothing - so he had a bad reaction - keep that in mind if you try Xanax.
We had Maui on Amitriptyline at one point as well, but it made him extremely dog aggressive... otherwise it REALLY helped with all the other issues (not eating, thunderstorm fears, loud noises) including eating - he loved food while he was on that drug. Amitriptyline is a long term drug.
As Chrystal pointed out, all of these drugs don't fix the problem(s), they just give you a slightly larger window to react and treat them (with training, other meds, conditioning - depends on the purpose).
The issue you will find with any of these drugs is the lowering of inhibition, so a dog on meds may be quicker to "tip" when confronted or threatened by something (person or dog). So a dog that may tend to be dog reactive may be less reactive on meds but may also "tip" into a FIGHT faster than before (lowered the flight response, and raised the fight response). Kinda like if a friend that never gets into a fight gets drunk and then fights everyone.
That's about all I can give on the subject.
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